It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:32 am

Time to look at an important question: Can the President pardon someone whose crimes were committed in the course of carrying out the President's wishes or direct orders? On the face of it, that ought to be fully as absurd as the President pardoning himself. Either way, it gives the President unlimited power to commit crimes. Surely no court would allow that to happen. Surely any prosecutor would challenge such a pardon in court. Or....oops! Forgot about the new SCOTUS. We are {!#%@}!
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:37 am

Poodle wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:34 pm
I wish I understood the US legal system. Life would be so much simpler.
If you've read Alice in Wonderland or Through the Looking Glass, you understand it already. "Sentence first. Verdict afterwards." "Off with their heads."
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:50 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:32 am
Time to look at an important question: Can the President pardon someone whose crimes were committed in the course of carrying out the President's wishes or direct orders? On the face of it, that ought to be fully as absurd as the President pardoning himself. Either way, it gives the President unlimited power to commit crimes. Surely no court would allow that to happen. Surely any prosecutor would challenge such a pardon in court. Or....oops! Forgot about the new SCOTUS. We are {!#%@}!
I fear that by current interpretations, Trump could tell someone to kill Hillary Clinton, and pardon the person as soon as he is charged, and pardon himself for conspiracy.
He would get impeached for this, but no one would go to prison.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:58 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:50 pm

I fear that by current interpretations, Trump could tell someone to kill Hillary Clinton, and pardon the person as soon as he is charged, and pardon himself for conspiracy.
He would get impeached for this, but no one would go to prison.
It does seem to be a carry over from the Right of Kings and so forth. I'd like to see some write up of why such an unrestricted pardon power was granted.....I mean, I thought the Founding Fathers were against an Imperial overreaching Chief Exec?...……..atleast have all pardons go thru Congress or Senate with super majority to disapprove?

Also.....I think this is still true...….that criminal action against the President is still available once his term is over...…….so its not "Scott Free."
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Tue Dec 04, 2018 3:02 pm

.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:12 am

Just a coincidence: Seems due to Cultural Diversity==>Belgium may not exist in 20 years.

course, I already thought of the Maldives going underwater, but Belgium was a surprise...…. you know, in THIS day and age.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 am

Anybody watching the markets today? Tuesday was a bloodbath, but I wasn't watching. Things seem to be stabilizing a bit this morning. I don't give a toss about the markets per se, but as Trump lives and dies with them, I'm happy to see the current roller-coaster ride. If the coming crash that I believe in with a religious faith is indeed worse than 1929, I'll consider it cheap, provided it clears Republicans out of Washington for a generation.

And Trump's problems continue to worsen, as NK continues to build missile sites and probably also nuclear warheads, and the ham-fisted request to the Canadians to arrest a Chinese executive can only worsen the attempt to relax the trade war. (I'd find it difficult to convict her of anything; spying and stealing secrets for a foreign country involves moral turpitude; spying for one's own country does not.)

From the limited visual evidence, I'd say Trump looks very upset. Just look at the scowl on his face when GW Bush greeted the Obamas at GHW Bush's funeral. He doesn't look like a man who is grieving, but he certainly seems to be very angry.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:50 pm

I found it significant that the upswing of 400 points after Trump declared the Trade War over was only half the size of the downturn when it became clear that nothing had been decided. This suggests that the trust of the Markets in Trump finding a solution vis-a-vis China is very small indeed, and that the Markets expect rather more bad than good news from this Administration.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:29 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 am
Anybody watching the markets today? Tuesday was a bloodbath, but I wasn't watching. Things seem to be stabilizing a bit this morning. I don't give a toss about the markets per se, but as Trump lives and dies with them, I'm happy to see the current roller-coaster ride. If the coming crash that I believe in with a religious faith is indeed worse than 1929, I'll consider it cheap, provided it clears Republicans out of Washington for a generation.

And Trump's problems continue to worsen, as NK continues to build missile sites and probably also nuclear warheads, and the ham-fisted request to the Canadians to arrest a Chinese executive can only worsen the attempt to relax the trade war. (I'd find it difficult to convict her of anything; spying and stealing secrets for a foreign country involves moral turpitude; spying for one's own country does not.)
The accusation is selling computer stuff to Iran contrary to the US sanctions.

There are also accusations that Huawei puts stuff in its phones to spy, but that is unrelated to the arrest and extradition proceedings. Although a number of countries have gone squirrely over Chinese tech, so far Canada hasn't banned anything.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:40 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:43 am
...

From the limited visual evidence, I'd say Trump looks very upset. Just look at the scowl on his face when GW Bush greeted the Obamas at GHW Bush's funeral. He doesn't look like a man who is grieving, but he certainly seems to be very angry.
Maybe you misread that expression. It's his scowl of might and impotence importance. And it seems the stuff he couldn't spew yesterday was farmed out to Limpjaw, bashing the media. But I expect we'll hear a presidental echo soon enough...
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:37 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:29 pm

The accusation is selling computer stuff to Iran contrary to the US sanctions.

There are also accusations that Huawei puts stuff in its phones to spy, but that is unrelated to the arrest and extradition proceedings. Although a number of countries have gone squirrely over Chinese tech, so far Canada hasn't banned anything.
Ah yes, that was in the story. American indignation over stealing technology was on my mind. But I'm basically pro-Iranian in this fight, so I would still have trouble convicting her. Americans have never faced up to their crimes in Iran, and all they want to remember is the retaliatory crime of taking hostages from 40 years ago. Until we get some recognition that Iran has a just grievance against the US, I'll continue to brush aside any attempts to raise my indignation about violations of the embargo.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:39 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:50 pm
I found it significant that the upswing of 400 points after Trump declared the Trade War over was only half the size of the downturn when it became clear that nothing had been decided. This suggests that the trust of the Markets in Trump finding a solution vis-a-vis China is very small indeed, and that the Markets expect rather more bad than good news from this Administration.
As of this moment, the DJIA is down another 500 points since opening, now around 24,500. Let it happen, I say...let 'er rip!
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Pretty clear that the markets don't see a chance for Trump to come up with a US-beneficial compromise with China within the next 90 days.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:49 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:40 pm

Maybe you misread that expression. It's his scowl of might and impotence importance. And it seems the stuff he couldn't spew yesterday was farmed out to Limpjaw, bashing the media. But I expect we'll hear a presidental echo soon enough...
Hard to know. For sure, he seemed to be looking daggers at Dubya during that cordial exchange with Obama. Glad I missed El Rashbigot again, now going on 25 years in a row. I keep thinking that cholesterol has got to catch up with one or both of these {!#%@}, and I may even live to dance on their graves.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:50 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:45 pm
Pretty clear that the markets don't see a chance for Trump to come up with a US-beneficial compromise with China within the next 90 days.
Any thoughts on how the arrest and probable extradition of Huawei's CEO will affect all this? Can't be good for compromise, and China doesn't recognize hostages.
Last edited by Upton_O_Goode on Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by OlegTheBatty » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:29 pm

AFAIK, Wanzhou has not ordered the murder of a journalist. Maybe she ought to try that - Trump might welcome her with open arms.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:42 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:50 pm
ElectricMonk wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:45 pm
Pretty clear that the markets don't see a chance for Trump to come up with a US-beneficial compromise with China within the next 90 days.
Any thoughts on how the arrest and probable extradition of Huawei will affect all this? Can't be good for compromise, and China doesn't recognize hostages.
There is an upper limit to the escalation China will do - so anything short of Trump recognizing Taiwan and invading North Korea should be manageable in the short term, since US consumers so far can afford the added tariffs, and the US isn't exporting that much to China anyway.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by JO 753 » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:04 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:49 pm
I may even live to dance on their graves.
Wear hip waderz. Various organizationz are vying for the rite to pay vagrants to desecrate their gravez. Not sure if it will be daily, weekly or monthly.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:22 pm

What would a 29er look like? 18,000 or lower? CNN is talking 401k's, but what percentage of Americans has those or own outright? PolitiFact addressed this recently - with just over half invested if indirectly thru pension plans, mutual funds, etc. But 84% of the market value is owned by the top 10%ers. Not being part of that 10%, I'd say, bring it on. ;)

edit... Oh {!#%@}... a 29er might look more like a market at $2,800 - an 89% drop. :?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:45 pm

Y'all think Dershoshits will continue to show his ugly face on TV defending the Grabber-in-Chief after he has been identified as not only one of the lawyers who helped getting Epstein of the hook, but also is being accused by one of the victims as one of Epstein's repeat customers and having molested her much younger self multiple times before police started seriously investigating the case back then? Was it his idea to declare minor sex slaves "prostitutes"?
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:34 pm

Ha, sounds like another weasel is preparing to hightail it outta there - a very interesting interview with Rudy in The Atlantic, "Mueller’s report will represent the biggest test yet of how they fare against legal, rather than political, challenges":
“Answering those questions was a nightmare,”...“It took him about three weeks to do what would normally take two days.”

...

Giuliani...pushed back on the prediction that Trump would take center stage after the report drops. “I don’t think following his lead is the right thing. He’s the client,” he told me. “The more controlled a person is, the more intelligent they are, the more they can make the decision. But he’s just like every other client. He’s not more … you know, controlled than any other client. In fact, he’s a little less.”
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Gord » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:35 am

This lawyer makes youtube videos in which he critiques tv shows for their realism when they portray the legal system in action.

Here he is discussing the Manafort plea deal:

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:44 am

Which one of the chimera is the real Thing?
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Gord » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:57 am

"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:58 am

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:22 pm
What would a 29er look like? 18,000 or lower? CNN is talking 401k's, but what percentage of Americans has those or own outright? PolitiFact addressed this recently - with just over half invested if indirectly thru pension plans, mutual funds, etc. But 84% of the market value is owned by the top 10%ers. Not being part of that 10%, I'd say, bring it on. ;)

edit... Oh {!#%@}... a 29er might look more like a market at $2,800 - an 89% drop. :?
Market's back up again, with a YUUGE rally yesterday afternoon. I'm wondering if the entire climate of stock trading is now vastly different from 1929. Back then, there were large numbers of small investors. Now, there are large numbers of LARGE investors. It's like an army of ants, with always enough in reserve to close up ranks and keep the attack going. It will take some major bad news to end this frenzy.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:04 am

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:22 pm
What would a 29er look like? 18,000 or lower? CNN is talking 401k's, but what percentage of Americans has those or own outright? PolitiFact addressed this recently - with just over half invested if indirectly thru pension plans, mutual funds, etc. But 84% of the market value is owned by the top 10%ers. Not being part of that 10%, I'd say, bring it on. ;)

edit... Oh {!#%@}... a 29er might look more like a market at $2,800 - an 89% drop. :?
I'm invested through a 403(b) plan in TIAA. It has a guaranteed return of 3%, but I always get 4% (before 2008, it was 5.5%). However, it can't "officially" go down. The money is "officially" mine. Only now I have to take about 4.5% of it every year as a minimum required disbursement. So this year, for the first time, the amount of money I have has decreased slightly. But that's like a snowball rolling, as each year, the MRD increases by 0.09%. (So, a raise from 4.5% of principal to about 4.6% of principal amounts to a little over 2%. At least, it's a raise, of sorts.) Not that it can make the slightest difference to me; indeed, it means I'm getting a better raise than anybody else except high-level executives. But the raise is coming out of my own little hamster-trove of funds, and it won't be there for my heirs and assigns when I drop off the twig.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:21 pm

.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:34 pm

It will be framed az 'The Demz took over and look wut happened' in the eko chamber.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by JO 753 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:06 pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2 ... 1b67eb1f05

Heather Nauert selected to embarrass America at the UN.

Herez the debate that happened in the Wite House:

Trump - "How about Heather?"

Soon to be unemployed advizor - "She duznt hav any credentialz pertinent to the job. No qualificationz at all, really. Any hi skool history teacher woud be a better pick."

Trump - "She'z hot. Looks like Cameron Diaz. Dun!"
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:46 pm

Once again...……………...I agree with Trump...………..but I won't reactivate that thread.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by scrmbldggs » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:16 pm

Which thread - the unhinged Twitstorm he unleashed earlier? (jk)

It's nothing unusual that he trails off in the middle of a tweet, but the abrupt ending of this barrage might well signal that someone wrestled him to the ground and now is sitting on his phone. :lol:
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by TJrandom » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 pm

Since the US isn’t using the Statue of Liberty these days, maybe it could be sent to France for a while. It seems they need it.

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:51 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 pm
Since the US isn’t using the Statue of Liberty these days, maybe it could be sent to France for a while. It seems they need it.
After all the money spent to refurbish it? Send them a bill also.
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:44 pm

Aha! It was all concealed before but now, I've at last penetrated through the lies of the Deep State!! I tell you, there's no surer guide than a combination of equal parts Biblical Prophecy and Fascist Conspiracy-Mongering with Batshit Insanity. Notice how well this explains the market dive on Tuesday. People were expecting Trump to unseal those 63,000 indictments and make mass arrests on Wednesday. When it didn't happen because the Deep State assassinated GHW Bush just in time to distract our Great Leader, the markets went back up. Well, here, if you've got a quarter-hour to waste, is the whole thing, interpreted by a devoted disciple of Q. (And I'm sorry to hear that he's gone down this road. I always liked the clever technology he invented for James Bond.)




The bizarre aspect of this rant is the speaker's obliviousness to the fact that an enormous majority of people voted Democratic. That doesn't matter. When you are going to restore government to the people, the last ones you ask about government are the people!
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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:04 pm

Much as I want Mueller to nail Trump’s ass to the wall, I must say, I can’t get excited about the supposed outrage of Russian interference in a US election. It just seems to smack of hypocrisy, considering that the US intervened in the most outrageous manner in Iran in 1953, and in Chile in 1970. Observe, the CIA itself records the following:
CIA wrote:Support for Coup in 1970. Under “Track II” of the strategy, CIA sought to instigate a coup to prevent Allende from taking office after he won a plurality in the 4 September election and before, as Constitutionally required because he did not win an absolute majority, the Chilean Congress reaffirmed his victory. CIA was working with three different groups of plotters. All three groups made it clear that any coup would require the kidnapping of Army Commander Rene Schneider, who felt deeply that the Constitution required that the Army allow Allende to assume power. CIA agreed with that assessment. Although CIA provided weapons to one of the groups, we have found no information that the plotters’ or CIA’s intention was for the general to be killed. Contact with one group of plotters was dropped early on because of its extremist tendencies. CIA provided tear gas, submachine-guns and ammunition to the second group. The third group attempted to kidnap Schneider, mortally wounding him in the attack. CIA had previously encouraged this group to launch a coup but withdrew support four days before the attack because, in CIA’s assessment, the group could not carry it out successfully.
And, even in Russia itself in 1996. No wonder Putin did not hesitate to interfere in the US in 2016.
“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.”

― Frédéric Bastiat (1801–1850), French economist

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:20 am

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/james-ale ... -1.4937724
Man who drove into Charlottesville crowd guilty of first-degree murder

...A man who drove his car into a crowd of counterprotesters at a white nationalist rally in Virginia was convicted Friday of first-degree murder for killing a woman in an attack that inflamed long-simmering racial and political tensions across the United States.

A state jury rejected arguments that James Alex Fields Jr. acted in self-defence during a "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville on Aug. 12, 2017. Jurors also convicted Fields of eight other charges, including aggravated malicious wounding and hit and run....

...The jury will reconvene Monday to determine a sentence. Jurors can recommend from 20 years to life in prison....
"Self defence?" :shock:
...During one of two recorded phone calls Fields made to his mother from jail in the months after he was arrested, he told her he had been mobbed "by a violent group of terrorists" at the rally....
:facepalm:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
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#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by TJrandom » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:01 am

Manafort wants a pardon from Trump, Trump will want a pardon from Pence, Pence will want a pardon from Putin… Where will it all end? :?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:57 am

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:01 am
Manafort wants a pardon from Trump, Trump will want a pardon from Pence, Pence will want a pardon from Putin… Where will it all end? :?
:pardon:

(I think scrmbldggs will get this one, but I'm not sure about the rest of you.)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by Poodle » Sat Dec 08, 2018 7:50 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:12 am
Just a coincidence: Seems due to Cultural Diversity==>Belgium may not exist in 20 years.

course, I already thought of the Maldives going underwater, but Belgium was a surprise...…. you know, in THIS day and age ... ....
Sorry - I have no trust in the opinion of anyone who cannot be bothered to learn the correct pronunciation of Kiribati. It's KIRIBAS. People have gone to war for less!
Oh - and Scottish Independence while we're on the subject ... a 55% vote to remain in the UK is NOT, by any reasonable person's definition, a very close result. The presenter obviously did his maths in Toytown University. A quick flick through Scottish history and an analysis of how the vote was spread would tell him a thing or two about why not every Scot is a rabid nationalist.
Oh - and Belgium ... don't be silly.
Oh ... and the Netherlands ... the Zuider Zee existed for a long time before the Dutch cornered the market in reclamation techniques. The worst that could happen would be the threatened reappearance of that body of water (the actual reappearance being unlikely given that the Dutch know what they're doing when it comes to occupying the North Sea).
Oh - Spain ... even the Basques have given up on that one. The Catalonians just took a bit of a blow, and a quick look a the French part of the Catalan lands would tell anyone why a fully independent Catalonia is a no-no.
Why do people make videos just for the sake of making videos? Nothing to do with money, is it?

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Re: It's the Donnydämmerung! (new Trump thread)

Post by ElectricMonk » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:55 am

In order to calm the Markets and bring the trade negotiation with China to a swift conclusion, the Trump administration just had the CFO of one of China´s biggest companies (Huawei) arrest in Canada.
That ought to settle things down.

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/07/tech ... index.html