Historical defense of religion

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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov » Thu Oct 20, 2005 4:51 pm

Moses didn't seem to like it very much, being the first in recorded history to proclaim that man should be ruled by common law rather than the will and force of other men.


Odd then, that mosaic law condones slavery. Moses (or whoever wrote the laws that bear his name) was only against *Israelites* being slaves. It was fine for neighboring tribes to be kept as slaves. Some examples:

Leviticus 19:20-21 " 'If a man sleeps with a woman who is a slave girl promised to another man but who has not been ransomed or given her freedom, there must be due punishment. Yet they are not to be put to death, because she had not been freed. The man, however, must bring a ram to the entrance to the Tent of Meeting for a guilt offering to the LORD."

Leviticus 25: "44 " 'Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly."

I started this thread as a counterbalance to a lot of attacks on religion that I view as unfair, but that doesn't mean inaccuracies that happen to be in defense of religion will be tolerated.

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rrichar911
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Post by rrichar911 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:28 pm

The article I posted has been delete and thus cannot be read, because I do not have a link to it, as it was sent to me in an email, and I don't know how to link to my email. It is against the rules of this board to post articles.
Last edited by rrichar911 on Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:40 pm, edited 7 times in total.
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rrichar911
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Post by rrichar911 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 8:30 pm

Raskolnikov

Well, maybe that was Charlton Heston, who said that :D

It was in the movie, anyway. I get him confused with Moses sometimes .
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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Sat Oct 22, 2005 7:57 am

rrichar911 wrote:Study says churchgoers are wealthier, less likely to divorce, better educated

Being poor may not be a prerequisite for heaven. And being rich won't necessarily keep you out. The ones who pass through, the theory goes, are the ones willing to let go.

"Whatever you really can't give away is an idol that gets between you and God," said John Buchanan, pastor at Fourth Presbyterian Church, just off Chicago's tony Michigan Avenue. Jesus simply expects us to be accountable for how we use our income, Buchanan said.

"One must share, so that no one is in need, and so no one is accumulating riches exclusively for himself," wrote Steven Leder in More Money Than God: Living a Rich Life Without Losing Your Soul (Bonus Books, $24).



So let them start sharing. I don't see too many religious people doling out lots of money for Hurricane Katrina victims, or the genocide survivors in Rwanda.

And that business about the "gate" that a loaded camel couldn't get through is just a rich Christian gloss on an older tale. The Babylonian Talmud tells the same story, only uses an elephant. The Koran also tells the story of a camel going through the eye of a needle. Let's face it, Christians, rich people who hoard their wealth don't go to heaven. Sorry. :roll:
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rrichar911
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Post by rrichar911 » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:05 pm

So let them start sharing. I don't see too many religious people doling out lots of money for Hurricane Katrina


The first people on site after Katrena, was the Southern Babtist , who have semi-truck converted into mobil kitchens, serving 30,000 hot meals a day.

A friend of mine who works for FEMA ssaid that the Southern Babtist were the mosst impressive of all the relif organizations. They even served meals to FEMA workers. Including the Red Cross which is also a religious organization. The Cross being the cross of Jesus. And lest we forget the Salvation Army, and all the Churches which opened their doors to refugies.
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Post by Pyrrho » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:13 pm

[mod]rrichar911, in accordance with forum rules, please do not post copyrighted articles in their entirety. Please edit your post that contains a copyrighted Chicago Tribune article to remove all but the first paragraph of the article, and include a link to the rest. Thank you.[/mod]

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Post by Pyrrho » Sat Oct 22, 2005 4:50 pm

rrichar911 wrote:The article I posted has been delete and thus cannot be read, because I do not have a link to it, as it was sent to me in an email, and I don't know how to link to my email. It is against the rules of this board to post articles.

Persons interested in the article can find it here:

Study says churchgoers are wealthier, less likely to divorce, better educated

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Raskolnikov
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Post by Raskolnikov » Mon Oct 24, 2005 9:28 pm

For what it is worth, the only organized effort I saw locally for Katrina relief was headed up by the local churches. Even the best known emergency relief organization, while secular, takes its name from a red *cross*. I don't see how religious organizations in general can be legitimately knocked for lack of charity. I can't think of any skeptical/agnostic organization that comes close to trying to match and organize the charitable work that churches do, so let's be careful where we point fingers.

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statisticool
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Post by statisticool » Tue Oct 25, 2005 12:06 am

Great points Raskolnikov.

Red Cross also uses, and might be called, red crescent, in other countries.

There is an article by The Chronicle of Philanthropy that keeps track of how much American charities raise. The leaders of the pack

United Way
Salvation Army
Feed the Children

Salvation Army and Feed the Children are Christian organizations AFAIK.

United Way was founded by religious (started in around 1887 by a priest, two ministers, and a rabbi), but I don't believe it is religious in nature now, but might contribute towards religious projects. It is important to note that United Way is not an atheist organization by default. It is not promoting atheism (like American Atheists or Freedom From Religion, for example).