Americans on harm's way

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Skeptruth
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Americans on harm's way

Post by Skeptruth » Wed May 31, 2006 11:26 am

America has fought many wars in it's history and besides the WW II, the others are just a waisting of American soldiers lives. The problem lies on the strategy that American politicians use to fight. They don't finish the job !!!....they go into a country and worry so much about the harm that can cause to their enemies that is becoming pathetic.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060531/ap_ ... estigation

Afghanistan wants to trail American soldiers for an accident, what a joke !!!

Gave me a break !!!....when the corrupt politicians are going to learn and forget mercy. War is war, bad things happen in armed conflicts otherwise stop sending our men and women on harm's way, please !!!

Are we the peacemakers of the world ? Did the terrorists of 9/11 had mercy on all the people that they murdered ?
"Those who would seek the truth should take care that they may find it and in finding it be horrified." Delos B. McKown

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Thu Jun 01, 2006 6:22 am

What about countries that seem to want theocracies? Not trying to be flippant, it's really a question that needs answering before we can make much of the Middle East.

Why did Iran, having rid itself of one of the most evil dictators of modern times, the Shah Reza Palavi, rush to have the Ayatollah Khomeni brought back from France and install him as the new theocratic dictator of Iran? They had a chance for a democracy, and didn't take it.

Why, once the USSR had been humiliated and driven from Afghanistan and people were able to do what they wanted, did the Taliban so quickly and decisively take power? Why didn't anyone contest them? Why didn't anyone challenge their rule?

Why is Israel so dominated by the ultraorthodox forces in the nation? Why do Israelis want to run their country according to God's Laws?

Can we bring democracy to people who just don't seem to want to have it?
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

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Flash
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Post by Flash » Fri Jun 02, 2006 10:39 pm

Flyer1:
"Why did Iran, having rid itself of one of the most evil dictators of modern times, the Shah Reza Palavi, rush to have the Ayatollah Khomeni brought back from France and install him as the new theocratic dictator of Iran? They had a chance for a democracy, and didn't take it."


Iran didn't do it. It was Khoumenis well organized supporters who took advantage of the power vacuum and chaos and took power. It was reminiscent of the situation in 1917 Russia where the communist party brought Lenin from Germany and then sized power.

"Why, once the USSR had been humiliated and driven from Afghanistan and people were able to do what they wanted, did the Taliban so quickly and decisively take power? Why didn't anyone contest them? Why didn't anyone challenge their rule? "


It wasn't quick and it wasn't decisive. Taliban would not have won if it wasn't for that great friend of the US Pakistan. Pakistan armed Taliban with heavy weapons, trained its troops and supplied (originally American) money as Uncle Sam was looking on with a glee. It wasn't quick either. The Taliban literally walked on corpses to do it and I remember the siege of Kabul that lasted for months. Finally, the Taliban did not take everything, remember the Northern Alliance and another independent military entity in the north-west Afganistan (I forgot its name)? Well, Taliban had never defeated those two.
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Lord of the Left Hand
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Post by Lord of the Left Hand » Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:17 am

I'm not sure if this is true but I've seen this idea kicked around:

A very oppressive government will subdue any "moderate" political opposition, leaving only other extremist movements with enough strength to collapse (or step in after a collapse) the current oppressive government. Making it where oppression seems to breed oppression.

LLH

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:50 am

Lord of the Left Hand wrote:I'm not sure if this is true but I've seen this idea kicked around:

A very oppressive government will subdue any "moderate" political opposition, leaving only other extremist movements with enough strength to collapse (or step in after a collapse) the current oppressive government. Making it where oppression seems to breed oppression.

LLH


Actually, that makes a lot of sense. It would explain why, as I was corrected above, the Taliban never defeated the Northern Alliance--which subsequently was never defeated by us.
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 1:15 am

My knowledge of Afghanistan is sorely limited to anecdotes by guys who were there. I am busily trying to improve my education in recent mideast policies.

You know what? It's really hard! Trying to tease what really happened out of conflicting left, right and whacko points of view takes a lot of time when you're also working and going to school full time.

I did find out that Sudanese dictator Omar al-Bashir tried to sell Osama bin Laden to the US in 1996, but we declined. Ah, those sales you don't go to, and then regret!
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

Skeptruth
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War games & American plutocracy

Post by Skeptruth » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:36 am

flyer1 wrote:My knowledge of Afghanistan is sorely limited to anecdotes by guys who were there. I am busily trying to improve my education in recent mideast policies.

You know what? It's really hard! Trying to tease what really happened out of conflicting left, right and whacko points of view takes a lot of time when you're also working and going to school full time.

I did find out that Sudanese dictator Omar al-Bashir tried to sell Osama bin Laden to the US in 1996, but we declined. Ah, those sales you don't go to, and then regret!


Hi, flyer1, most Americans, including myself are ignorant of the war games, friends-foes of the U.S.A. Politicians use a form of government that fits the description of plutocracy, neither they follow the original Constitution. The U.S.A. Constitution has been amended so much, like the original American flag.
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagfact.html
http://www.house.gov/house/Constitution/Amend.html

Examples are many, one of them is the right to carry a loaded or unloaded weapon, handgun, shotgun, rifle, etc. every State has their own laws on the matter. The majority making illegal to carry them loaded and making so difficult to get a permit that is laughable. I'm 57 years old and I lived most my life in the U.S.A, I was 19 when I entered legally since 1968. When I arrived in NYC, I thought I was in paradise. I grew up in a dental lab, so I have a trade, jobs were plentiful, just opened the classified section of the NYT and picked. The subway was only $0.10 a token, $ 25 dollars a week could buy enough groceries for two, rent, housing, cars, fuel,medical, etc. were very affordable. Now we live overseas with my American born wife out of a small retirement that would rent a studio or a 1 bedroom apt. in the U.S.A.
I suffer from hypertension my medication is easily bought without Px and 90%cheaper. My wife takes hormones for her menopause, which in U.S costs around $150.00 here are $20.00 and we buy all these medications without Px. We are members of the PH and because we have a source of income we pay just for the doctors visits $ 3.00. People with very low incomes or those with no incomes they don't pay anything. Everything turned around, aging Americans that they don't have good savings, retirements , medical coverage have to wait to be 65 to apply for Medicaid. What could people do between 55 or earlier and 65 to get medical benefits without having health insurance because they cannot afford it or just don't qualify for it ?

I own an old Army Colt .38, I bought it from a gunsmith in town that repairs, rebuilds and builds guns and repairs sewing machines, reloads ammunition because after .22 caliber the gunshops won't sell larger caliber without gun registration.He works out of his home, no license, no problem. You see in this small country they don't make you guilty till you commit a crime in America you're guilty just in case. I was charged with two misdeamenors because in a random stop two cops from Ventura Sheriff dept. Ca. found my Smith and Wesson semiautomatic pistol in my lunchbox in my car that I bought it used in a gunshop and worth $750.00 with the clip and loaded. It didn't matter that I had my handgun registered and no priors. I was guilty just in case I could use it. The cost was: I had to pay bail $5,000.00 10% of 50,000.00 bail bond, I lost my gun and I spent 10 days in jail and 3 years probation. After a year of attorneys and trying to reach an agreement of some kind, money total around: $14,000.00 and 10 days in jail out of 20. Just because I could use the gun and in a liberal State like F. California is almost impossible to get a conceal loaded weapon permit or unconceal either due to their liberal laws.
In the Armed Forces I used weapons so lethal that you think they came from another dimension or aliens but to protect myself the stinky U.S. bureaucracy punished me so heavily that broke my heart an we left U.S. for good. Ironically my wife receives a check from a retirement agency thru her retired Ventura county excorrectional officer exhusband. So indirectly California is paying back what they took away from me. I'm so bored of doing nothing but just living off the good old U.S. I'm thinking in some business to make extra money but not more American way of life pressure or meeting dentists deadlines and ruining my health. The only things that worries me is the U.S. economy and the dollar because the Euro can put the dollar in the "Dark Ages" thanks to our greedy politicians.
"Those who would seek the truth should take care that they may find it and in finding it be horrified." Delos B. McKown

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cmarotta99
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Post by cmarotta99 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:32 pm

flyer1 wrote:My knowledge of Afghanistan is sorely limited to anecdotes by guys who were there. I am busily trying to improve my education in recent mideast policies.

You know what? It's really hard! Trying to tease what really happened out of conflicting left, right and whacko points of view takes a lot of time when you're also working and going to school full time.

I did find out that Sudanese dictator Omar al-Bashir tried to sell Osama bin Laden to the US in 1996, but we declined. Ah, those sales you don't go to, and then regret!


RE: bin Laden (or UBL) = I've heard that story too about the Sudanese offering him up in 1996, but it doesn't make sense.

UBL hadn't done anything in 1996. He first became notorious two years later, in 1998, after he bombed our embassies in East Africa.

So why would we have wanted him in 1996?
The temptation to form premature theories upon insufficient data, Watson, is the bane of our profession.

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 7:29 am

No, the point was that he was for sale. There was no reason to want him, except in hindsight. The discovery only made me wish we'd had 20/20 foresight....when Osama was still a bargain on the open market.
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

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Post by Scully » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:40 pm

cmarotta99 wrote:RE: bin Laden (or UBL) = I've heard that story too about the Sudanese offering him up in 1996, but it doesn't make sense.

UBL hadn't done anything in 1996. He first became notorious two years later, in 1998, after he bombed our embassies in East Africa.

So why would we have wanted him in 1996?


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