The Fog of War...

Where have we been?
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Jake Wrestler
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The Fog of War...

Post by Jake Wrestler » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:57 am

...who has seen this excellent Errol Morris documentary about the life of former U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara?

Amazing, during one particularly candid moment he explicitly calls himself a war criminal!! :shock:
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur"

"Ridicule is the best test of truth"
-Lord Chesterfield

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:02 am

McNamara actually has my respect as the first and only high-ranking official to actually come out and say "Vietnam was a mistake. We screwed up." The new spin on Vietnam is that we "won" (again) because we killed so many more VC/NVA than they killed of us. The actual ratio is something like 5 million to 55,000.

Of course, the communists are still there...and we're not.
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

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Pedantica
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Post by Pedantica » Tue Apr 25, 2006 7:57 am

flyer1 wrote: The new spin on Vietnam is that we "won" (again) because we killed so many more VC/NVA than they killed of us. The actual ratio is something like 5 million to 55,000.


According to this method of determination, Germany won the Second World War in Europe and Japan won it in Asia, since they were both responsible for more casualties than they suffered in their respective theatres.

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:18 pm

Pedantica wrote:
flyer1 wrote: The new spin on Vietnam is that we "won" (again) because we killed so many more VC/NVA than they killed of us. The actual ratio is something like 5 million to 55,000.


According to this method of determination, Germany won the Second World War in Europe and Japan won it in Asia, since they were both responsible for more casualties than they suffered in their respective theatres.


No, no, WE won WWII, because we wrote all the histories afterward. :D

I wish I could remember where I saw this revised version of Vietnam; if I can find the cite, I will paste it here. My jaw just about hit the floor when I read it. Declaring you "won" a war because you killed so many more people is like saying serial killers are superior to single murderers.
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."

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Post by narmer71 » Sun May 07, 2006 4:49 am

It seems that other forms of government have not done any better in controlling war than monarchy.
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rrichar911
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Post by rrichar911 » Mon May 08, 2006 6:00 am

What ever else you wish to say about Viet Nam, it was one of the last countries to fall to communism, and perhaps it was the reason why.

When 50 million people starved to death in China under communism, we did nothing. When Stalin starved to death 30 million , we did nothing, except to nick name him Uncle Joe.

Standing up against evil is a just and noble thing to do, whether you win or not.

America has been femanised to the point that protecting the cave from attacking bears and tigers, is seen as stupid. But if men were slaves to their emotions, afraid to face danger and stand up to evil and for principle, the human race would not exist. Testosterone exists for a reason, and men and women are different for a reason, they think differently. If the men of America don't stand up for their logic and accept only the womans perspective then as girley men, America will fall. For not all the men in the world think like women.

Some of the men who faced an attacking bear that would kill his woman and kids, hiding in the cave, died . Conclusion, facing the bear was stupid. No logic to be found there.
What really intrest me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the universe ~ Albert Einstein

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Jake Wrestler
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Post by Jake Wrestler » Mon May 08, 2006 4:10 pm

Apocalypse Soon article by Robert McNamara...
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur"

"Ridicule is the best test of truth"
-Lord Chesterfield

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Post by Silly Green Monkey » Mon May 08, 2006 7:25 pm

What, you think women can't defend the cave? Women aren't weak, they're just not quite as strong as men.
Normal is just a stereotype.

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flyer1
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Post by flyer1 » Mon May 08, 2006 10:30 pm

Silly Green Monkey wrote:What, you think women can't defend the cave? Women aren't weak, they're just not quite as strong as men.


You must be kidding. When their children are threatened, women fight hard, fight mean and fight dirty.

Of course, w/o men, there would be no children....I guess they are good for something. :D
"Have you seen my people, magician?" said the unicorn. "They are wild and sea-white, like me."
Schmendrick shook his head. "I have never seen anyone like you, not while I was awake."