Soviet Offensive Plans

Where have we been?
User avatar
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2178
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2016 3:01 pm

Re: Soviet Offensive Plans

Post by Denying-History » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:43 am

I consider it a must read. It proves the USSR was in no state for defensive or offensive during 1941 and were in a state of partial mobilization.
« The Terror here is a horrifying fact. There is a fear that reaches down and haunts all sections of the community. No household, however humble, apparently but what lives in constant fear of nocturnal raid by the secret police. . .This particular purge is undoubtedly political. . . It is deliberately projected by the party leaders, who themselves regretted the necessity for it. »
Joseph E. Davies

User avatar
Posts: 485
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 8:42 pm

Re: Soviet Offensive Plans

Post by BRoI » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:48 am

Stalin 'planned to send a million troops to stop Hitler if Britain and France agreed pact'
Stalin was 'prepared to move more than a million Soviet troops to the German border to deter Hitler's aggression just before the Second World War'
By Nick Holdsworth in Moscow, 18 Oct 2008

Papers which were kept secret for almost 70 years show that the Soviet Union proposed sending a powerful military force in an effort to entice Britain and France into an anti-Nazi alliance.

Such an agreement could have changed the course of 20th century history, preventing Hitler's pact with Stalin which gave him free rein to go to war with Germany's other neighbours.

The offer of a military force to help contain Hitler was made by a senior Soviet military delegation at a Kremlin meeting with senior British and French officers, two weeks before war broke out in 1939.

The new documents, copies of which have been seen by The Sunday Telegraph, show the vast numbers of infantry, artillery and airborne forces which Stalin's generals said could be dispatched, if Polish objections to the Red Army crossing its territory could first be overcome.

But the British and French side - briefed by their governments to talk, but not authorised to commit to binding deals - did not respond to the Soviet offer, made on August 15, 1939. Instead, Stalin turned to Germany, signing the notorious non-aggression treaty with Hitler barely a week later.

The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, named after the foreign secretaries of the two countries, came on August 23 - just a week before Nazi Germany attacked Poland, thereby sparking the outbreak of the war. But it would never have happened if Stalin's offer of a western alliance had been accepted, according to retired Russian foreign intelligence service Major General Lev Sotskov, who sorted the 700 pages of declassified documents.

"This was the final chance to slay the wolf, even after [British Conservative prime minister Neville] Chamberlain and the French had given up Czechoslovakia to German aggression the previous year in the Munich Agreement," said Gen Sotskov, 75.

The Soviet offer - made by war minister Marshall Klementi Voroshilov and Red Army chief of general staff Boris Shaposhnikov - would have put up to 120 infantry divisions (each with some 19,000 troops), 16 cavalry divisions, 5,000 heavy artillery pieces, 9,500 tanks and up to 5,500 fighter aircraft and bombers on Germany's borders in the event of war in the west, declassified minutes of the meeting show.

But Admiral Sir Reginald Drax, who lead the British delegation, told his Soviet counterparts that he authorised only to talk, not to make deals. ... -pact.html
"I believe that when the history of the [Great] war comes to be impartially written, the two greatest results will be the establishment of the national Jewish home and the creation of the League of Nations. The two are not really disconnected. They represent the two great ideas for which we fought and by which we conquered—the ideas of nationalism and internationalism."
- Robert Cecil, 1st Viscount Cecil of Chelwood, March 1923.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Real Skeptic
Posts: 24025
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: Soviet Offensive Plans

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:32 pm

Why don't you guys try this out in an actual history forum, like
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"
WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Posts: 290
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Soviet Offensive Plans

Post by iwh » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:29 pm

Jeffk 1970 wrote:Of course, I have to get through all of the other books I’ve got stacked up.....
LOL...yep...same here. Just started on Cesarani's Final Solution.
For a debunking of new boy on the block John Wear see:

User avatar
Jeffk 1970
Has No Life
Posts: 12728
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 3:00 am
Custom Title: Lost in Translation
Location: Safely stored in my own mind

Re: Soviet Offensive Plans

Post by Jeffk 1970 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:39 pm

iwh wrote:
Jeffk 1970 wrote:Of course, I have to get through all of the other books I’ve got stacked up.....
LOL...yep...same here. Just started on Cesarani's Final Solution.

Oh, that is excellent.

I’m re-reading “Origins of the Final Solution” by Browning and working in “The Origins of Nazi Genocide” by Friedlander.
Question for Groening by a reporter:
“Mr. Groening, what do you say to those who still deny the Holocaust?”

“Nothing. They are hopelessly lost.”

Harvard Crimson (on why it refused to run an add by Bradley Smith):
“(It is) vicious propaganda based on utter BS that has been discredited time and time again.”