Afrocentrism as school cirricula?

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UnrepentantSinner
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Afrocentrism as school cirricula?

Post by UnrepentantSinner » Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:19 pm

I'm posting a link to the first page on a thread opened on Christian Forums that contains a link to the news article discussing the issue in question. I first became aware of the issue on CF, and think many of the subsequent replies are very interesting which is why I linked to the forum, and not the original story.
http://www.christianforums.com/t2582648 ... culum.html

I have a real problem with this. As I stated in my post about 5 pages in, we're not talking about introducing Swahili and dashikis into the school cirriculum, we're talking about historical revisionism that flies in the face of all literary, archaeological and ethnographic evidence we've discovered to date. I would have the same problem with Erik von Daaniken and Thor Heirdahl* being the primary text books for history classes exploring the Polynesian colonization of the Pacific and rise of the Classic Maya.

Given such accomplishments like the Bantu expansion, Timbuktu in Mali, Great Zimbabwe and even post-Colonial sucesses as Shaka's Zulu empire, sub-Saharan blacks have no reason to be ashamed of their cultural advances and successes, even if they were eventually stymied by Europeans.

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Post by SkepticReport » Wed Feb 22, 2006 5:28 pm

I must, naturally, insist on the Viking-centric view of the Viking era being taught.

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Post by bigtim » Thu Feb 23, 2006 4:49 pm

I have a novel idea.... how about we teach our kids REAL history.... no flavor of the day history.... no legend/myth based history....

With all 3 of my kids I've had to de-program them from the crap they've learned in history. Should I begin my rant about Christopher Columbus?
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Post by SteveCarlo » Thu Feb 23, 2006 7:03 pm

bigtim wrote:.... Should I begin my rant about Christopher Columbus?


sure, go ahead. I'm eating my lunch now and have nothing to do but chew for the next few minutes anyhow :wink:


I've tried to speak with some very strident afrocentrists from time to time.
I don’t know whether it was the anonymity of the newsnet that brings out the worst it people or just the law of big numbers that means that it is not representational or statistically significant that maybe even a few tens of thousands out of 6 billion people can be completely off their rockers But I had this discussion with a guy who was convinced that some central sub-Saharan tribe managed to travel to the coast and then make it to meso America and found the Olmec culture…without leaving any traces behind in the intervening territory (not to mention not having that much riparian technology and no marine technology)

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Post by SkepticReport » Thu Feb 23, 2006 8:03 pm

bigtim wrote:no flavor of the day history....


How will you weigh what subjects are more important than others?

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Post by Bunk » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:09 pm

I can't seem to access the thread at CF. I get a message (despite having registered) that I don't have permission to access that page. Is it because I admitted to being an atheist in my profile? They make it perfectly clear that there are a number of threads that are only accessable to Nicene Christians.

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Post by sparks » Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:19 pm

perfectly clear that there are a number of threads that are only accessable to Nicene Christians.


....because sometimes Virginia, the knowledge is just too special to be shared with the Great Unwashed. Now: What the hell did Pythagoras do with the five solids this time?
The Ramans do everything in threes. A. C. C.

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Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:11 am

:D :D :D :D And the dodecahedron was real bitch, let me tell you! :shock: :shock:
The Ramans do everything in threes. A. C. C.

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Post by corymaylett » Fri Feb 24, 2006 4:40 am

sparks wrote::D :D :D :D And the dodecahedron was real bitch, let me tell you! :shock: :shock:

Wait until you pass a pentagrammic concave deltohedron (sharper points).

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Post by sparks » Fri Feb 24, 2006 7:13 pm

It is really difficult to extract an impacted tesseract. . . .


OOOOUUUUCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! In multiple dimensions. :dunk:
The Ramans do everything in threes. A. C. C.

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Post by Skepchick » Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:16 pm

bigtim wrote:I have a novel idea.... how about we teach our kids REAL history.... no flavor of the day history.... no legend/myth based history....

With all 3 of my kids I've had to de-program them from the crap they've learned in history. Should I begin my rant about Christopher Columbus?


I heard an interesting bit on NPR on that very issue a while back, and was thinking about various pressure groups lobbying to change how history is taught.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... Id=5206166


I can't read the thread US linked to so I am not sure it which examples it lists.

Some Hindu groups wants books revised in one way

http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/educ ... 6146c.html

Most of the proposed changes would erase or alter passages dealing with caste and gender discrimination in ancient South Asia. The changes also were aimed to dispute the notion that Aryan peoples from outside India played a key role in the formation of Hinduism.

In one case, the original text read, "Men had many more rights than women." The Hindu Education Foundation offered to replace that sentence with, "Men had different rights and duties than women."


Other groups want the revisions to be opposite.


http://news.ncmonline.com/news/view_art ... a99ae75766

Some dalits (widely thought of in India as an oppressed people) across the U.S. are demanding that the term, dalit, used only in one of the nine proposed textbooks currently being reviewed by the CBE, not be elided (omitted), as the Hindu groups want, and that a photo of a dalit cleaning a latrine be replaced with one of a dalit engaged in a faith practice.

They also say that it would serve the dalits' cause better if the textbooks said that "untouchability is a living reality in India," instead of simply going by the Hindu groups' suggestion that the books say that it is illegal to treat someone as an untouchable




I have no doubt that some history books contain mistakes and unfair generalizations, whether it is due to ignorance or prejudice. I think every effort should be made to correct errors- however how can it be done in a fair way?

It is natural for adherents to a religion or a nation to represent historical events in light most beneficial to them. Soviet textbooks would omit mention of the Winter war, Japanese textbooks still gloss over many WWII atrocities. Those are clear omissions, but the real danger is in less blatant examples.

If we say that women in Hinduism had "different" not fewer rights, why can't we say same about women anywehere. Women could not vote not because they did not have the right, they just had different rights. Almost any event and historical position can be whitewashed that way. See, as an example, "asset liberation" in this thread http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1915


I am not sure one can escape cultural bias when attempting to write any history, and that there is a "right" version. There is a wide scale between folding to every pressure group and making history largely meaningless, and persisting in a single rigid view. Wish I knew what the ideal medium is.
Lizard.

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Post by DJ » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:14 am

Skepchick wrote: I heard an interesting bit on NPR


That will rot your brain, Skepchick. :roll: :P


Skepchick wrote: I have no doubt that some history books contain mistakes and unfair generalizations, whether it is due to ignorance or prejudice. I think every effort should be made to correct errors- however how can it be done in a fair way?


To the victors go the spoils…and the history I suppose…I’m not happy about it, but it is what it is.


Skepchick wrote: I am not sure one can escape cultural bias when attempting to write any history, and that there is a "right" version. There is a wide scale between folding to every pressure group and making history largely meaningless, and persisting in a single rigid view. Wish I knew what the ideal medium is.


Open up a high school student’s history book, and you will see right now how horrible things are. For instance, there’s textural evidence (The Federalist Papers, Jefferson's direct quotations, etc...) as to the reasoning behind the Bill of Rights. Yet, I only found the author’s (editor’s) interpretations in my nephew's Am. Hist. book. Not a single interpretation was full or even in some cases correct at all. One only needs to look at what has gone on with Torah and the NT to get really creepy feelings.
:(

Regards,
Dana

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Post by DJ » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:21 am

Doctor X wrote:Heck, many fans believe Bill Buckner lost the series. It is "gospel" that Harry "Boo! Hiss!" Frazeez sold Babe Ruth to finance his play "No! No! Nanette!"


<mumbling> (expletive deleted) Stanley! :twisted: :twisted:

Doctor X wrote: Southerners have tried to refashion Civil War history to be about anything but slavery.
--J.D.


Geez, wadenit ‘bout Staytes RATS. :roll:

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Post by DJ » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:51 am

Doctor X wrote:
the more subtle revisionism is harder to combat. Of course, if one questions "afrocentrism" one is a RACIST!! [!--Ed.] The sad truth of such revisionism is it implies embarrassment with one's real culture. I would think overcoming the racism of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, et cetera would be an achievement to be proud of.

--J.D.


One need only look to Liberia to see the strides that our citizens have made.

I'm interested in your take on anti-semitism in the "African"-American "community" (not specifically the crazy guy with the sun glasses...L.F.)?

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Post by DJ » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:49 pm

Doctor X wrote:
DJ wrote:I'm interested in your take on anti-semitism in the "African"-American "community" (not specifically the crazy guy with the sun glasses...L.F.)?


Well, Jews are an easy target because most people in American--a vast majority--are not Jewish. Judiasm is connected to a "race" more than other religions . . . except for maybe Nation of Islam and Christian Identity! Jews become a very easy target because they "are different." Next come the attraction that believing in a conspiracy against you has. Anti-Semitism has had a long history of conspiracies. Jews are seen as "successful" so there "must be" some "reason behind it."

Throw in a lack of critical thinking and you have a conspiracy.

It is pathetic, of course, and it is self-defeating.

--J.D.


Am I remembering correctly that in fact, Poisoning the Well fallacy is attributed to Jews being blamed for the "black death"?

Truly pathetic, and when one considers that 2 minority groups in the USA that aren't treated as minorities in our education system are Jewish and Asian (unless they're pacific islanders :roll: ),it almost seems criminal the pathetic obfuscation coming from some of our communities.

DJ

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Post by DJ » Sat Feb 25, 2006 3:12 pm

Doctor X wrote:
DJ wrote:Am I remembering correctly that in fact, Poisoning the Well fallacy is attributed to Jews being blamed for the "black death"?


That may be true.

Truly pathetic, and when one considers that 2 minority groups in the USA that aren't treated as minorities in our education system are Jewish and Asian (unless they're pacific islanders :roll: ),it almost seems criminal the pathetic obfuscation coming from some of our communities.


Jewish is considered "caucasian" for minority status. Why Asian is not, I do not know. One of the reasons I do not like consideration of such, but reality dictates otherwise.

--J.D.


I wonder how one would classify our Jewish Ethiopians? I would prefer that no racial/religious classifications exist at all. Would there be something wrong with socioeconomic classification when providing opportunity? I've always resented growing up a poor Jewish kid in a single parent family. I also resented being short and wearing glasses. It just seemed like I was getting hit by everything/one from all directions.

I need to go get some cheese to go with my whine. :roll:

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Post by DJ » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:29 am

Doctor X wrote:
DJ wrote: I've always resented growing up a poor Jewish kid in a single parent family. I also resented being short and wearing glasses. It just seemed like I was getting hit by everything/one from all directions.


You need to go into film. That way you can date starlets until a taller and more handsome Jew steals them . . . but by that time you will be with a better starlet. Then you will laugh as your original gets dumped for another and is forced to make Bette Midler films. Eventually, you will get her Asian daughter. Consider it "trading up."

I need to go get some cheese to go with my whine. :roll:


It is a mitzvah!

--J.D.


buh, buh, buh, sheeesh, geeeez, I, I, I, I don't know....

You think the cute Asian will agree?

:roll:

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Post by UnrepentantSinner » Sun Feb 26, 2006 3:35 pm

Sorry about the link guys, but the thread appears to have disappeared entirely. The link in the OP concerned the adopting of an Afrocentric cirricula for some school somewhere - I was so put off by the idea that I never actually took the original link. My belated response was that an Afrocentric cirricula is quite different from injecting some Swahili words and dashikis into the classroom. Any historical revisionism, be it Holocaust denial, Feminist Aryan mythology or Afrocentrism is anathema to anyone serious about the study of history.

I'll try and dig up the original link at a later time and Claus, regarding the Vikings...

Have you read Collapse by Jared Diamond? Except for his descriptions of a verdant pre-European Australia, I cannot get out of my head the images of the Greenland Norse and their amazing, yet ultimately doomed experiment in pre-Industrial colonization.