Israels murderous assult on the USS Liberty

Where have we been?
gunsrgood
BANNED
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:16 pm

Post by gunsrgood » Mon Nov 07, 2005 9:58 pm

"Fog of war?"

Here's more from "Day of Imfamy" by Dr. William Pierce


Just after dawn, a twin-engine, propeller-driven Israeli reconnaissance plane flew out from the coast and slowly circled the Liberty three times. A little before 9:00 AM an Israeli jet fighter flew out and circled the Liberty. Throughout the morning and early afternoon, the Jews sent one aircraft after another out to circle the Liberty. Some of these aircraft flew so low that the crew members aboard the Liberty could see the faces of the pilots. The Jews were keeping the Liberty under very close observation and seemed to be concerned about the presence of the eavesdropper.


Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.

User avatar
Raskolnikov
Regular Poster
Posts: 828
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:18 pm

Post by Raskolnikov » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:14 pm

Goebbels would be proud that you have taken his advice to heart to exactingly.

User avatar
Chaos
Poster
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:05 pm
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Post by Chaos » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:26 pm

How about this:

The USS Liberty was an espionage vessel. For that reason, it tried to keep its presence secret. That usually involves pretending not to be there - a condition the military calls "total EMCON".
So, the Israelis call them, something to the tune of "hey, who are you guys? You´re intruding into our territory!"
No response from USS Liberty. They´re not there, or least they pretend not to be.
However, not responding, and pretending not to be there, is exactly what a hostile (for example, Egyptian) vessel would do in that situation. Therefore, it is entirely plausible that the Israeli have mistaken USS Liberty for a hostile vessel. After all, espionage vessels usually don´t display large "We´re Americans, please don´t mistake us for Egyptians" signs in a place where aircraft can see them.

gunsrgood
BANNED
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:16 pm

Post by gunsrgood » Mon Nov 07, 2005 10:48 pm

Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.

From THE LIBERTY FOUNDATION site:

On June 8, 1967, the Israeli Defense Forces murdered 34 Americans on the high seas (31 sailors, 2 marines, and a NSA civilian). Out of a total compliment of 294 men, 70% of the crew became casualties as 172 were wounded in addition to the 34 killed.

For 6 hours the morning before the attack, the ship was subjected to intense scrutiny by Israeli photo-reconnaissance aircraft flying as low as 200 feet. The USS Liberty had traditional American markings on her bow (GTR-5) and stern (USS LIBERTY) flying a large American Flag, which stood out in the breeze, and sailing in international waters on a clear and sunny day.


From "Day of Imfamy" by Dr. William Pierce

Of much more serious concern to the Jews was the interception by the Liberty of radio communications concerning their strategic military intentions: specifically their planned invasion of Syria.

Just after dawn, a twin-engine, propeller-driven Israeli reconnaissance plane flew out from the coast and slowly circled the Liberty three times. A little before 9:00 AM an Israeli jet fighter flew out and circled the Liberty. Throughout the morning and early afternoon, the Jews sent one aircraft after another out to circle the Liberty. Some of these aircraft flew so low that the crew members aboard the Liberty could see the faces of the pilots.


Chaos writes:

"The USS Liberty was an espionage vessel. For that reason, it tried to keep its presence secret."

... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.

User avatar
Chaos
Poster
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:05 pm
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Post by Chaos » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:53 pm

You do know that these American markings can be fabricated?

After all, if that had been an Egyptian vessel on some mission to Israel, flying Egyptian colors would have been like holding a big "Bomb Me!" sign...


Come back when you´ve got something else than cut-n-paste propaganda.

User avatar
Skepchick
Founding Member
Posts: 943
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 4:33 am

Post by Skepchick » Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:39 am

jj wrote:You know, we have two possibilities here:

The first is "fog of war". Anyone with any real military experience knows this exists, and is a huge problem.


Agreed. Friendly fire is a huge problem, and sometimes not even in war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendly_fire

The armed forces of the United States are widely believed to be more prone to friendly fire incidents than the military of other nations. The Pentagon estimates of U.S. friendly fire deaths are:

WW II: 21,000 (16%)
highest-ranking U.S. loss of the war, Lieutenant General Lesley J. McNair
Sinking of the Surcouf by US planes
Vietnam war: 8,000 (14%)
Gulf War: 35 (23%)
Afghanistan (2002): 4 (13%)


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_submarine_Surcouf
On 18 February 1942, Surcouf was lost with all hands. At the time, her loss was the greatest single submarine casualty ever. The investigation commission eventually stated that the Surcouf had been sunk by US planes in the morning of the 18th in "friendly fire", though the official report stated that she left Bermuda on 12 February and was accidentally rammed and sunk by the American freighter Thompson Lykes near the Panama canal


What did the Surcouf know that caused US to sink it?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_flight_KAL-007


Korean Air Flight 007, also known as KAL 007 or KE007, was a Korean Air civilian airliner shot down with all on board by Soviet jet interceptors on September 1, 1983 a few miles over international waters. KAL 007 was shot just west of Sakhalin island which had been claimed as Soviet territory. KAL 007 carried 269 passengers and crew, including a U.S. congressman


And

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was a commercial flight operated by Iran Air, that flew on a Tehran-Bandar Abbas-Dubai route. On July 3, 1988, the flight was shot down by USS Vincennes on the Bandar Abbas-Dubai leg, which resulted in 290 civilian fatalities from six nations including 66 children. There were 38 non-Iranians aboard.
Lizard.

gunsrgood
BANNED
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:16 pm

Post by gunsrgood » Tue Nov 08, 2005 7:14 pm

chaos wrote:

"After all, if that had been an Egyptian vessel on some mission to Israel, flying Egyptian colors would have been like holding a big "Bomb Me!" sign..."


Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.
... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.

User avatar
Chaos
Poster
Posts: 407
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 7:05 pm
Location: Frankfurt, Germany

Post by Chaos » Wed Nov 09, 2005 11:40 am

gunsrgood wrote:chaos wrote:

"After all, if that had been an Egyptian vessel on some mission to Israel, flying Egyptian colors would have been like holding a big "Bomb Me!" sign..."


Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.
... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.


Maybe you misunderunderstood. I was asking for something else then regurgitated cut-n-paste propaganda.

User avatar
Don_Fernandez
Poster
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:37 pm
Location: Under the Milky Way

Post by Don_Fernandez » Fri Nov 11, 2005 6:18 pm

gunsrgood wrote:Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.
You're repeating this like a mantra. Do you need to repeat it to yourself to believe in it?
Because otherwise there's no point, repetition won't convince others.

... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.
How's that worked for you? Seems to me you have experienced this personally with your repetition of propaganda and lack of thoughts of your own in most replies.

But your repetition of the propaganda/mantra above is certainly not fooling the critical thinkers here.
"Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase"
James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)

User avatar
rrichar911
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4853
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2005 9:03 pm
Location: Texas, God's country USA

Post by rrichar911 » Mon Nov 14, 2005 4:57 am

Logic: In all wars America has fought, significant number of troops have been killed by "friendly fire".

Thus America sends its troops into war with the intent of killing them.

Hot dam, I are smart.
What really intrest me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the universe ~ Albert Einstein

gunsrgood
BANNED
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri Sep 23, 2005 8:16 pm

Post by gunsrgood » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:50 pm

From THE LIBERTY FOUNDATION site:

On June 8, 1967, the Israeli Defense Forces murdered 34 Americans on the high seas (31 sailors, 2 marines, and a NSA civilian). Out of a total compliment of 294 men, 70% of the crew became casualties as 172 were wounded in addition to the 34 killed. For 6 hours the morning before the attack, the ship was subjected to intense scrutiny by Israeli photo-reconnaissance aircraft flying as low as 200 feet. The USS Liberty had traditional American markings on her bow (GTR-5) and stern (USS LIBERTY) flying a large American Flag, which stood out in the breeze, and sailing in international waters on a clear and sunny day.


From "Day of Imfamy" by Dr. William Pierce

Just after dawn, a twin-engine, propeller-driven Israeli reconnaissance plane flew out from the coast and slowly circled the Liberty three times. A little before 9:00 AM an Israeli jet fighter flew out and circled the Liberty. Throughout the morning and early afternoon, the Jews sent one aircraft after another out to circle the Liberty. Some of these aircraft flew so low that the crew members aboard the Liberty could see the faces of the pilots.

Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake. ... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.

User avatar
Don_Fernandez
Poster
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:37 pm
Location: Under the Milky Way

Post by Don_Fernandez » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:14 pm

Repetition after repetition... since you seem to have missed the first, and keep repeating your same tired claims I'll repeat myself too:
Don_Fernandez wrote:
gunsrgood wrote:Calling the Israeli's murderous assult on the Liberty a mistake is like a home invasion rapist / murderer telling a judge it was just a mistake.
You're repeating this like a mantra. Do you need to repeat it to yourself to believe in it?
Because otherwise there's no point, repetition won't convince others.

... Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.
How's that worked for you? Seems to me you have experienced this personally with your repetition of propaganda and lack of thoughts of your own in most replies.

But your repetition of the propaganda/mantra above is certainly not fooling the critical thinkers here.
Seriously, your repetition of the very same things seems like propaganda to me, it sure is a propaganda tactic. You keep posting quotes that come from anti-semitic propaganda, with very little toughts of your own.
Why do you even bother?
Do you think that self-deceiving cowards will be fooled?
Because the way I see it most people here are critical thinkers, and you have said it yourself: your propaganda can't convince them.
"Such... is the respect paid to science that the most absurd opinions may become current, provided they are expressed in language, the sound of which recalls some well-known scientific phrase"
James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879)