History Repeats in Afghanistan

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:09 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: Because you have access to USA Gubment SEALED documents
No Bobbo. you are pretending to forget again.

The only act that Assange could receive capital punishment was the Espionage Act. The Ecuadorian and UK government negotiated that Assange cannot be executed, with the USA, as he was charged under this act. Other Acts didn't have capital punishment . I already informed you about this and then linked you to the Democrat congresswoman who asked the Attorney General to charge Assange under this specific act.


It sucks being you doesn't it? :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:17 am

USA has death penalty for MANY actions. Not just espionage. The request for no capital punishment is more generic than the specific claims you make. You are either lying, or making things up. I don't remember the link to the congresswoman but how would such a request indicated what was in an already sealed filing....or one later filed. Sorry Matt: you are caught up once again in another ........what should we misapply this time????==>another forgery. Ha, ha..........Hey.....we all suck. A certain justice in that.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:22 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:17 am
USA has death penalty for MANY actions. Not just espionage.
Name those Acts that can be applied to Assange.

I will wait here while you do that.
:lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:22 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:17 am
USA has death penalty for MANY actions. Not just espionage.
Name those Acts that can be applied to Assange.

I will wait here while you do that.
:lol:
I can't do that Matt. The charges are sealed. Stupid Neo Con. Murder? Lip synching to Vanilla Ice songs? What have you..........
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:28 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: I can't do that Matt.
I already knew that.

Assange's activities do not fall under other legislated crime acts that can allow for capital punishment.

Did you note the maximum punishment for the criminal acts the 12 GRU officers, who supplied Assange with information, were charged under?

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:40 am

Capitol Punishment in the USA:

What crimes qualify for the death penalty?
Crimes that are punishable by death are known as capital crimes or capital offences, and they commonly include offences such as murder, mass murder, terrorism, treason, espionage, attempting to overthrow government, piracy, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide.

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... in+the+USA

Like I said Matty: a good generic concern when extradition to the USA is the subject. Getting guarantees doesn't indicate SEALED DOCUMENTS contain allegations of espionage.

Silly ...............Kangaroo.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:47 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Capitol Punishment in the USA: What crimes qualify for the death penalty?
Soooooo... as per usual, you failed to find one other criminal act that can be applied to Assange, that could result in capital punishment, yet you pretended there was...... :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:53 am

Oh Matt: THE ISSUE IS: your claim that only espionage can be subject to a charge of capital punishment.

Lost in your smoke and mirrors. Is it the smoke...............or the mirrors?????

Sealed Documents: only neo cons and liars have access to their contents. And while sealed documents do exist: its unsupported SPECULATION to post what is in them............unless...... as stated.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:03 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Oh Matt: THE ISSUE IS:......
The issue is you claimed there are many other criminal acts that could be applied to Assange and thus receive capital punishment.

Either you were lying again or you can list them for us. Which is it Bobbo?
:lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:09 am

No Matt. No smoke and mirrors/jumping horses allowed. THE ISSUE IS: how do you know what is in sealed court documents? Only a USA neocon operative has such access. Ipse dixit. (((ha, ha.....yeah, I see the ambiguity))). You made your claim as a certainty as with personal knowledge: NOT as a speculation.

You know what a speculation is................by now? Or still playing with Smoke and Mirrors?

Put it all out there Matt. Its fun to see.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:29 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: No Matt. No smoke and mirrors/jumping horses allowed. THE ISSUE IS: how do you know what is in sealed court documents?
I have now told you five times.
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=697526#p697500

You just got caught lying again, when you made up another story and claimed that there are many capital punishment crimes that could be applied to Assange. When I ask you to name one of them, you tried to change the subject and ran away

It must really suck to be you.
:lol: :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:47 am

Matt: do you KNOW what is in those sealed court filings

..................................or.................................

are you only making your best informed guess?
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:08 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist" wrote: Matt: do you KNOW what is in those sealed court filings

viewtopic.php?f=20&p=697559#p697500

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:19 am

Your link directly addresses only logical inferences.............so you don't know. You really should post consistently with what you default to when challenged on point.

I'll say it again: The USA has many crimes calling for the Death Penalty. NOT HAVING ACCESS TO SEALED COURT FILINGS: any rational foreign government considering extradition to the USA could call for a guarantee of no death penalty without knowledge or care or reference to anything sealed or not sealed: JUST BASED ON THE REQUEST FOR EXPEDITION.

Stop being so simple minded...........and so adamant about it. Transparently: silly.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Your link directly addresses only logical inferences.............
You claimed there are many other acts that can be applied to Assange that also could result in capital punishment.

What are they Bobbo?
:lol: :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:25 am

No Matt. copy and paste what was actually said. You "dissemble" so. Where is the pride???
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:27 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:25 am
No Matt. copy and paste what was actually said. You "dissemble" so. Where is the pride???
I asked you to answer a direct question Bobbo? Were you simply lying again when you said there were many other capital punishment laws that could be applied to Assange?

Where is your pride? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Tom Palven » Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:47 am

Time for Peace in Afghanistan and an End to the Lies by Michael Hoh

"Even Losing a War Makes Money."
https://www.counterpunch.org/
If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:25 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:27 am
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:25 am
No Matt. copy and paste what was actually said. You "dissemble" so. Where is the pride???
I asked you to answer a direct question Bobbo? Were you simply lying again when you said there were many other capital punishment laws that could be applied to Assange?

Where is your pride? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Still conflating all the issues. Silly Matt. The over arching point: most likely: foreign states don't care at all what is in a sealed court document and are applying boiler plate requirements as they do for ALL requests for extradition. Do you "know" otherwise? ((((Ha, ha.........who am I kidding? Matt KNOWS everything.)))) You have already admitted you don't know what is in those sealed documents, you are only using your best guess. But you don't need to guess at all. If you can't guess what other capital offenses "could be" charged: then you just lack imagination or allowance for error. You know Matt: human things.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:58 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Still conflating all the issues.
No Bobbo. I am asking you to back up your earlier specific claim. Are you now admitting you lied again?

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 7:28 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:52 am
Tom Palven is against any public or social health care.
I promote social public and social health as I am a socialist


Tom Palven is against any form of social security
I promote social security as I am a socialist


Tom Palven is against any gun control
I promote strong gun control as I am a socialist


To Palven supports Taliban in Afghanistan who banned all female education and executed opposition parties
I promote democracy, the elected Afghanistan government and opposition parties as I am a socialist


Tom Palven uses videos and arguments copied from holocaust denials websites
I fight against holocaust denial
Not a single one of those you listed is exclusive to socialism. I hope you're not another one who confuses socialism with social programmes. :D
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 am

Goody67 wrote: Not a single one of those you listed is exclusive to socialism. I hope you're not another one who confuses socialism with social programmes. :D
They are Tom Palven's views, not mine. I am a socialist. Tom Palven stood for election in the 80's for the Libertarian Party. He now supports Taliban in Afghanistan and thinks the French Vichy government somehow moved to Afghanistan. ( He's senile, but very funny to tease.) :D

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 2:35 am
They are Tom Palven's views, not mine. I am a socialist. Tom Palven stood for election in the 80's for the Libertarian Party. He now supports Taliban in Afghanistan and thinks the French Vichy government somehow moved to Afghanistan. ( He's senile, but very funny to tease.) :D
Can you tell me what it means to you to be a socialist?
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:11 am

Goody67" wrote: Can you tell me what it means to you to be a socialist?
Yes. I support government intervention in economic failures in a generally laissez faire economy. I support progressive taxation as income increases. I support the economy of scale benefits from public health and social security.

Try looking it up next time as you appear to be wasting my time.

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:11 am
Goody67" wrote: Can you tell me what it means to you to be a socialist?
Yes. I support government intervention in economic failures in a generally laissez faire economy. I support progressive taxation as income increases. I support the economy of scale benefits from public health and social security.

Try looking it up next time as you appear to be wasting my time.
Hmmmm....excellent description of what a socialist generally is. In my view, it should also apply to what a capitalist thinks as well......smart/non-rapacious capitalists who want to sleep at night.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:12 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:11 am
Yes. I support government intervention in economic failures in a generally laissez faire economy.
What are those failures? Enlighten me. :D

Do you have a problem with private property and profit?
I support progressive taxation as income increases.
Why?
I support the economy of scale benefits from public health and social security.
Do you think those can not exist within a capitalist society?
Try looking it up next time as you appear to be wasting my time.
I'm aware of the definition of socialism and it is an ideology that I absolutely despise. The reason I asked you is because people often use the word 'socialist' loosely and confuse it with things that are not strictly speaking part of socialism e.g. social programmes.
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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:18 pm

Definitions. always good to know which one you are using as in 1. Economic Theory vs 2. Popular Parlance. When you note that Matt and most others are using it in the Popular Parlance, your queries are revealed as simply wasting time.

Why not go to the heart of things.............whatever that may be. "I suspect" you and Matt agree on most of the "Social" related issues. Silly to let bone headed personalities obfuscate that reality.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:51 am

Goody67 wrote:What are those failures? Enlighten me.
Market failure, public goods and externalities" is the economic expression for these. Ever heard of a weather event destroying a crop. Does not government interaction help return the market to equilibrium faster and mitigate damage? Ever heard of WWII? Don't you think having a non profitable English army sort of stopped the Germans from landing?

You don't read much or know anything about economics, do you?

Goody67 wrote:Do you have a problem with private property and profit?
No more or less than other tax lawyers with economics degrees. And you? What is your education?
Matthew Ellard wrote: I support progressive taxation as income increases.
Goody67 wrote:Why?
Improved social harmony, maintenance of unemployed class for increase GDP growth averaging, greater resouces for dealing with market failure etc.....
Matthew Ellard wrote: I support the economy of scale benefits from public health and social security.
Goody67 wrote:Do you think those can not exist within a capitalist society?
Give me an example of a capitalist universal health system that is more efficient.......you can't can you?

Goody67 wrote:I'm aware of the definition of socialism and it is an ideology that I absolutely despise.
How much have you paid to post on this forum, that people like myself donate to to exist for the social good? You are just another right wing hypocrite getting a "fee ride" while demanding an end to "free rides". :lol: :lol:

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Re: History Repeats in Afghanistan

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:58 pm

There is a fairly bright line between capitalism/socialism when it comes to means of production vs means of distribution. Its not observed above.

But, in almost all cases, most issues are a mix of things to include their opposites. Nothing Pure except for the naive arm chair advocates not comfortable with nuance.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:51 am
Market failure, public goods and externalities" is the economic expression for these. Ever heard of a weather event destroying a crop. Does not government interaction help return the market to equilibrium faster and mitigate damage? Ever heard of WWII? Don't you think having a non profitable English army sort of stopped the Germans from landing?
None of those things you listed explain how the free market is a "failure". Instead of just posting nonsense, explain how it is a failure.

What has WWII got to do with the alleged failures of the free market? :lol:
You don't read much or know anything about economics, do you?
I do and that is why I find it hilarious arguing with socialists who generally speaking know absolutely nothing about basic economics - if they did, they wouldn't be socialists.

The fact you constantly try and attack my character speaks volumes about you so much.
No more or less than other tax lawyers with economics degrees. And you? What is your education?
Two points of socialism are to abolish private property and profit. You seem to be exposing yourself as a self-proclaimed socialist who knows nothing about socialism. You still never answered my question, do YOU have a problem with private property and profit?

I have no problem with private property and profit, I welcome both.

My education is irrelevant. Again, more personal BS instead of focusing on the thread.
Improved social harmony, maintenance of unemployed class for increase GDP growth averaging, greater resouces for dealing with market failure etc.....
Can you provide some sources that a progressive tax system increases social harmony?

If anything, lower taxes, the better - people work harder when rewarded more. Basic stuff really.

You have yet to explain those alleged failures.
Give me an example of a capitalist universal health system that is more efficient.......you can't can you?
Changing your tune now. Initially you did not say "universal". Nevertheless, you have tried to reverse the burden of proof as a way to try and wiggle out of admitting that health care and social security do exist within a capitalist society.
How much have you paid to post on this forum, that people like myself donate to to exist for the social good? You are just another right wing hypocrite getting a "fee ride" while demanding an end to "free rides". :lol: :lol:
Can you honestly not refrain yourself from personally attacking people who don't necessarily agree with your beliefs? I could describe you as a left-wing blah, blah, blah, but I am better than that. Quite frankly, you have a lot of growing up to do.

This forum is a free forum and one's political beliefs are totally irrelevant.
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: Market failure, public goods and externalities" is the economic expression for these. Ever heard of a weather event destroying a crop. Does not government interaction help return the market to equilibrium faster and mitigate damage? Ever heard of WWII? Don't you think having a non profitable English army sort of stopped the Germans from landing?
Goody67 wrote:None of those things you listed explain how the free market is a "failure". Instead of just posting nonsense, explain how it is a failure.
I listed the exact reasons in economics that a government is required to intervene in market failure in a Laissez-faire economy. You really don't know anything about economics do you? . :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote:What has WWII got to do with the alleged failures of the free market?
Armies are not profit centres you complete idiot. :lol: :lol:
Matthew Ellard wrote: You don't read much or know anything about economics, do you?
Goody67 wrote: I do
No you don't. It's obvious.
Market Failures, Public Goods, and Externalities
https://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/ ... lures.html
Goody67 wrote:Two points of socialism are to abolish private property and profit.
Read Lenin's New Economc Policy of 1921 and become educated.
Goody67 wrote:My education is irrelevant.
I can tell. :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote:Can you provide some sources that a progressive tax system increases social harmony?

OECD / "How tax can reduce inequality"
http://oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory. ... ality.html

You really are a total idiot. Are you enjoying your "free ride" on the public good Skeptic Society forum, where you deny the benefit of free rides. ? :lol:

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:53 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:23 am
I listed the exact reasons in economics that a government is required to intervene in market failure in a Laissez-faire economy. You really don't know anything about economics do you? . :lol: :lol:
You never.

More name calling.
Armies are not profit centres you complete idiot. :lol: :lol:
Still no explanation of how WWII is an example of the failings of a free market. Instead, I just read more name calling.
No you don't. It's obvious.
You're only saying that because I despise socialism.
Market Failures, Public Goods, and Externalities
https://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/ ... lures.html
What was your point in referencing an article which included different people's opinions on economics?
Read Lenin's New Economc Policy of 1921 and become educated.
I told you that two main points of socialism are the abolition of private property and the concept of profit and then you reference Lenin's proposed policy which included the free market and capitalism, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That really has made my day, you truly are a plonker!

You still never answered my question and instead have again referred to another person.

I really want to tell you to "become educated", but I don't think that is possible for you.
I can tell.
You have no arguments, only name calling.
OECD / "How tax can reduce inequality"
http://oecdobserver.org/news/fullstory. ... ality.html
Social harmony and inequality are two different things. And, unlike you, I don't favour economic equality.

Try again.
You really are a total idiot. Are you enjoying your "free ride" on the public good Skeptic Society forum, where you deny the benefit of free rides. ? :lol:
The forum is free for anyone to use. I have no idea why you keep trying to boast that you donate to this forum - do you want a medal or something?
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:55 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I listed the exact reasons in economics that a government is required to intervene in market failure in a Laissez-faire economy. You really don't know anything about economics do you? . :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote: You never.
It's the first sentence, Try harder to lie next time.
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=702603#p702264

////////////////////////////////
Matthew Ellard wrote: Armies are not profit centres you complete idiot. :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote: Still no explanation of how WWII is an example of the failings of a free market.
How does a Laissez-faire economy raise an army? Are you really that stupid? :lol:

///////////////////////////////
Goody67 wrote: Instead, I just read more name calling.
You should ask one of your skinhead friends for a really big hug, you poor white trash. Do Muslims make you cry too?

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Goody67 wrote: You're only saying that because I despise socialism.
No. I'm saying it because you don't have a clue about basic economics. Tell me how free market raises an army as a public good again? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Matthew Ellard wrote:Read Lenin's New Economc Policy of 1921 and become educated.
Goody67 wrote:I told you that two main points of socialism are the abolition of private property and the concept of profit and then you reference Lenin's proposed policy which included the free market and capitalism,
You you complete idiot. the wealth transfer in Lenin's NEP comes from progressive taxation. You simply don't know what socialism or economics is. You seem more interested running around with you tiki flares and skinhead friends threatening Muslims in Wales. :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Do you also make your "White people are in danger posts" on Stormfront : White Action Power forum? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Goody67
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 7:59 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:55 am
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=702603#p702264
I have asked you to elaborate and you have just made up stories.
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How does a Laissez-faire economy raise an army? Are you really that stupid? :lol:
I'm still waiting for you to explain why WWII is an example of the alleged failures of a free market.
///////////////////////////////You should ask one of your skinhead friends for a really big hug, you poor white trash. [/i] Do Muslims make you cry too?
:roll: :roll: :roll:
/////////////////////////////////
No. I'm saying it because you don't have a clue about basic economics. Tell me how free market raises an army as a public good again? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Because you can't provide evidence that WWII is an example of the alleged failures of a free market you have tried to twist it and claim I said something I did not.
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You you complete idiot. the wealth transfer in Lenin's NEP comes from progressive taxation. You simply don't know what socialism or economics is. You seem more interested running around with you tiki flares and skinhead friends threatening Muslims in Wales. :lol: :lol: :lol:
"You you complete idiot" - :lol: :lol: :lol:

You referenced Lenin's NEP with regards to the points I made about abolishing private property and profit.

viewtopic.php?p=702633#p702493

You seem confused.

More name calling. Pathetic.
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Do you also make your "White people are in danger posts" on Stormfront : White Action Power forum? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Try and reply to me at least once without name calling me.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

Matthew Ellard
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 am

Goody67 wrote: I have asked you to elaborate and you have just made up stories.
Matthew Ellard wrote: It's the first sentence, Try harder to lie next time.
:lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=702603#p702264
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Matthew Ellard wrote: How does a Laissez-faire economy raise an army? Are you really that stupid? :lol:
Goody67 wrote: I'm still waiting for you to explain why WWII is an example of the alleged failures of a free market.
The governments of the time, had to raise armies to defend against the enemy. These are called externalities in economics. You don't know anything about economics remember? :lol:

///////////////////////////////
Matthew Ellard wrote: No. I'm saying it because you don't have a clue about basic economics. Tell me how free market raises an army as a public good again? :lol: :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote: Because you can't provide evidence that WWII is an example of the alleged failures of a free market you have tried to twist it and claim I said something I did not.
No. You don't know what an externality is in economics is, and are running away from my clear statement that humiliated your hilarious claim.

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Matthew Ellard wrote:You you complete idiot. the wealth transfer in Lenin's NEP comes from progressive taxation. You simply don't know what socialism or economics is. You seem more interested running around with you tiki flares and skinhead friends threatening Muslims in Wales. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Goody67 wrote: You referenced Lenin's NEP with regards to the points I made about abolishing private property and profit.
You made a really stupid claim that socialism stopped private ownership and profit. I showed you Lenin's NEP which promoted socialism through property, profit and progressive taxation. I humiliated you again as you don't actually know what socialism is.

You really are very stupid. :lol: :lol:

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Goody67
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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Goody67 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:29 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:49 am
It's the first sentence, Try harder to lie next time. :lol: :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=20&p=702603#p702264
////////////////////////////////
Already answered. You have yet to provide any evidence of the alleged failures of a free market.
Matthew Ellard wrote:The governments of the time, had to raise armies to defend against the enemy. These are called externalities in economics. You don't know anything about economics remember? :lol:

///////////////////////////////
I'm still waiting for you to explain how WWII is an example of the failures of a free market.
Matthew Ellard wrote:You made a really stupid claim that socialism stopped private ownership and profit. I showed you Lenin's NEP which promoted socialism through property, profit and progressive taxation. I humiliated you again as you don't actually know what socialism is.

You really are very stupid. :lol: :lol:
You're basically just posting the same stuff in two threads.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=26252&p=702847#p702847

You aren't humiliating anyone, apart from yourself.
"Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first." - Mark Twain

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Re: Tom Palven is an idiot

Post by Wordbird » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:16 pm

Goody67 wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:29 pm
None of those things you listed explain how the free market is a "failure". Instead of just posting nonsense, explain how it is a failure.
The free market is not a failure. It gives you no more, and no less, than the label on the box indicates.

If you wanted fairness, like free speech and not being deplatformed for conservative opinions, that was never on the box label. Private property rights were. Twitter's property, Twitter's right to control it. That was on the box label. Free speech the amendment only protects you from the government. If you wanted more free speech, you should not have expanded the scope of private property; you should have expanded the scope of government. If the government owned the internet, you would have more free speech.

If you wanted higher wages, that was never on the box label. You need the job, but the job doesn't need you. You have zero negotiating power as someone with no property who is forced to sell his labour to survive. Anyone who told you that other wage slaves will magically rise to compete with Walmart if wages fall was lying to you. They would need more property to do that. In capitalism, without minimum wage, your wages will fall to subsistence.

If you wanted equal rights, that was never on the box label. Rights are about law and law is about money. Again, don't listen to what people say about what's on the box label... read the box label. Think about what the proposes system will do and has done. Use your brain.

What the free market does provide is meritocratic competition within classes. You will not move up in late-stage capitalism. You will, however, get the job if you're the best at it, and as long as you don't make yourself a target by espousing incorrect opinions. There is so little wiggle room in the working class, in pure capitalism, that someone more efficient really will get that job.

Capitalism also provides more stuff. It's good if you like stuff. In pure capitalism, even a bottom-rung worker with only a penny to spare has fifty businesses competing to get that penny. Since they can't take it through stealing, they have to sell him something he wants, or at very least, engineer that want.

The thing I like about capitalism is that in some instances, it stops waste. The guy who routinely pays $20 for convenience is going to be undercut by the worker who won't do that. The frugal worker can work for less money than the spendy-spendy, profligate one. The frugal worker will get hired, because the business wants to save that money. In all but the top classes, nobody can afford to waste anything. That's a net gain.