Mars Lunacy

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landrew
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:30 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:27 pm
You may be right that we are not ready yet. But I suspect that the time is not far away. I certainly expect the first people in Mars within ten years.
When we're ready is anyone's guess. The accelerant is measured in billions of dollars.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:29 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:30 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:29 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
YOU aren't qualified to make that call.
I'm qualified to have my opinion. I don't sign authorizations for Mars missions.
What's your point exactly?
Uninformed opinions are just killing pixels. Of course that's never stopped your blathering before...
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:31 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:29 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:30 pm
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:29 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
YOU aren't qualified to make that call.
I'm qualified to have my opinion. I don't sign authorizations for Mars missions.
What's your point exactly?
Uninformed opinions are just killing pixels. Of course that's never stopped your blathering before...
I've posted plenty of links which have informed my opinions.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:01 pm

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:35 pm

Very amusing, landrew.

But what I get from it is not what you want to point out. Sure, being a pioneer is not smart. You are likely to die. But there are always people willing to be the first. My view is that these guys are not stupid. They represent the greatness of the human species. In this case, 200,000 willing to be the first.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:03 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:35 pm
Very amusing, landrew.

But what I get from it is not what you want to point out. Sure, being a pioneer is not smart. You are likely to die. But there are always people willing to be the first. My view is that these guys are not stupid. They represent the greatness of the human species. In this case, 200,000 willing to be the first.
I hope we settle Mars some day, but I'll lampoon some of the arguments they are making about going there in the near term; "My house is a mess, so I need to buy a new house." That's one of my favorites.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:23 am

I agree that is an idiotic argument.
Going to Mars, the moon, the asteroids etc is not about messy houses. It is just the next step in the general progress of human growth.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:33 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:23 am
I agree that is an idiotic argument.
Going to Mars, the moon, the asteroids etc is not about messy houses. It is just the next step in the general progress of human growth.
Undoubtedly.
But for the next few decades, we aren't likely to get to Mars. We'll just continue to make silly noises about it.
We're going to need a whole suite of new technologies first. To go now is like trying to go to the moon with 1930s technology.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:36 am

He mentioned Michael Shermer! WOOO!
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:32 am

Landrew

Going to Mars now is like going to the moon with 1969 technology.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 am

landrew wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:03 am
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:35 pm
Very amusing, landrew.

But what I get from it is not what you want to point out. Sure, being a pioneer is not smart. You are likely to die. But there are always people willing to be the first. My view is that these guys are not stupid. They represent the greatness of the human species. In this case, 200,000 willing to be the first.
I hope we settle Mars some day, but I'll lampoon some of the arguments they are making about going there in the near term; "My house is a mess, so I need to buy a new house." That's one of my favorites.
And I need to buy a new car because the ash tray in this one is full.

I just hope the "shiny object" the new explorer photographed doesn't lead to the same hysteria that the "Mars face" did some decades ago. There are probably people around who STILL think that's an actual carved artifact. There are lots of shiny objects in nature; most of them are not jewelry or machinery or artifacts of any kind.

Anyway, the risk involved is not a big deal. Matt Damon took the risk and it worked out fine for him.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:22 pm

It's {!#%@} MARS. If they want to go, let'em. Just send enough potatoes.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:48 pm

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:18 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:03 am
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:35 pm
Very amusing, landrew.

But what I get from it is not what you want to point out. Sure, being a pioneer is not smart. You are likely to die. But there are always people willing to be the first. My view is that these guys are not stupid. They represent the greatness of the human species. In this case, 200,000 willing to be the first.
I hope we settle Mars some day, but I'll lampoon some of the arguments they are making about going there in the near term; "My house is a mess, so I need to buy a new house." That's one of my favorites.
And I need to buy a new car because the ash tray in this one is full.

I just hope the "shiny object" the new explorer photographed doesn't lead to the same hysteria that the "Mars face" did some decades ago. There are probably people around who STILL think that's an actual carved artifact. There are lots of shiny objects in nature; most of them are not jewelry or machinery or artifacts of any kind.

Anyway, the risk involved is not a big deal. Matt Damon took the risk and it worked out fine for him.
Yes the Face on Mars continues to generate considerable traffic despite high-resolution photographs that show a natural object. Of course conspiracy theories abound that NASA is covering up the truth with a fake image.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm

NASA refuses, all the time, to admit that the Decepticons destroyed the Beagle One probe.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by TJrandom » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:17 pm

landrew wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:48 pm
...NASA is covering up the truth with a fake image.
You let gorgeous send you PMs? :lol:

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gord » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:51 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:17 pm
landrew wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 3:48 pm
...NASA is covering up the truth with a fake image.
You let gorgeous send you PMs? :lol:
Fake PMs.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Upton_O_Goode » Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:20 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm
NASA refuses, all the time, to admit that the Decepticons destroyed the Beagle One probe.
And of course, NASA deliberately set ALL the probes down far away from the cities.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:30 am

Upton_O_Goode wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:20 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:16 pm
NASA refuses, all the time, to admit that the Decepticons destroyed the Beagle One probe.
And of course, NASA deliberately set ALL the probes down far away from the cities.
The proposals to send a probe up the right nostril of the Face was ... mysteriously ... never given the attention we demanded.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:31 am

I blame the idiotic Left Nostril gang.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:15 pm

The Cosa Nostril was responsible.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:48 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:15 pm
The Cosa Nostril was responsible.
Va bene, grazie.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm

Why do you keep acting like people want to explore Mars because they think the Earth is going to be destroyed? They want to explore Mars to explore it.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:52 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm
Why do you keep acting like people want to explore Mars because they think the Earth is going to be destroyed? They want to explore Mars to explore it.
I'd love to see a colony on Mars, but as a skeptic, I question some of the dumb claims that are made by the proponents. I'm sure we'll reach Mars this century, but those who say we need to get there very soon because we are killing this planet sounds a bit hysterical to me. Going now would be like trying to go to the Moon in the 1930s in my opinion. Let's not panic, and wait a bit longer for the technology to actually catch up. There's plenty of space exploration going on right now that is advancing our technology much faster than NASA has been doing.

Let the robots explore Mars for the time being. Sending humans there seems like a dumb idea at present.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:58 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:52 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm
Why do you keep acting like people want to explore Mars because they think the Earth is going to be destroyed? They want to explore Mars to explore it.
I'd love to see a colony on Mars, but as a skeptic, I question some of the dumb claims that are made by the proponents. I'm sure we'll reach Mars this century, but those who say we need to get there very soon because we are killing this planet sounds a bit hysterical to me. Going now would be like trying to go to the Moon in the 1930s in my opinion. Let's not panic, and wait a bit longer for the technology to actually catch up. There's plenty of space exploration going on right now that is advancing our technology much faster than NASA has been doing.

Let the robots explore Mars for the time being. Sending humans there seems like a dumb idea at present.
But who do you think is saying that "we need to get there very soon because we are killing this planet"?

Trying to go to Mars now is like trying to go to the moon in the early 1960s, not the 1930s. We're not ready yet, but we're sending robots now as a precursor to human exploration. I agree it's a dumb idea at the present, but if we don't keep developing the technology, it will be a dumb idea forever.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:09 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:58 pm
landrew wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:52 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:29 pm
Why do you keep acting like people want to explore Mars because they think the Earth is going to be destroyed? They want to explore Mars to explore it.
I'd love to see a colony on Mars, but as a skeptic, I question some of the dumb claims that are made by the proponents. I'm sure we'll reach Mars this century, but those who say we need to get there very soon because we are killing this planet sounds a bit hysterical to me. Going now would be like trying to go to the Moon in the 1930s in my opinion. Let's not panic, and wait a bit longer for the technology to actually catch up. There's plenty of space exploration going on right now that is advancing our technology much faster than NASA has been doing.

Let the robots explore Mars for the time being. Sending humans there seems like a dumb idea at present.
But who do you think is saying that "we need to get there very soon because we are killing this planet"?

Trying to go to Mars now is like trying to go to the moon in the early 1960s, not the 1930s. We're not ready yet, but we're sending robots now as a precursor to human exploration. I agree it's a dumb idea at the present, but if we don't keep developing the technology, it will be a dumb idea forever.
I happen to think we are a lot farther away from a Mars colony than you seem to believe. This is what this forum is for; to express our opinions, even when we disagree. I've heard plenty of rationale for going to Mars based on the notion that we are "using up" this planet. I happen to think that with considerably less effort and expense, we could settle some of the most inhospitable parts of this earth. After all, we inhabit barely 4% of the earth's surface. The worst spot on earth would be like a garden spot compared to the best spot on Mars. We're not ready to send people on a one way trip to certain death on Mars.

But that's just my opinion. I respect yours as well.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:18 pm

I'll ask again. WHO is saying that? It seems like a strawman.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:19 pm

For the record, you're right that "terraforming" inhospitable parts of the Earth would be way easier than terraforming Mars. But as I keep telling you, that's not the reason people want to go there.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:50 pm

That got me thinking....

I'd want to go for at least 1 reazon (not that I want to now) - low gravity = spectacular boobz!
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:58 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:50 pm
That got me thinking....

I'd want to go for at least 1 reazon (not that I want to now) - low gravity = spectacular boobz!
LSMFT? You don’t need to go to Mars for that.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:08 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:18 pm
I'll ask again. WHO is saying that? It seems like a strawman.
Where have you been? It's been part of the Mars colonization debate for years. In particular, Elon Musk paints a gloomy picture:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/11/1710 ... -sxsw-2018
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:11 pm

Lucky Strike meanz fine tobacco?
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:21 pm

:D

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:38 pm

landrew wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:08 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:18 pm
I'll ask again. WHO is saying that? It seems like a strawman.
Where have you been? It's been part of the Mars colonization debate for years. In particular, Elon Musk paints a gloomy picture:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/11/1710 ... -sxsw-2018
If there was some sort of world-ending calamity, it would be good to have humans not in the world, but Musk isn't saying here that that's the reason for exploring Mars.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 9:38 pm
landrew wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 8:08 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:18 pm
I'll ask again. WHO is saying that? It seems like a strawman.
Where have you been? It's been part of the Mars colonization debate for years. In particular, Elon Musk paints a gloomy picture:
https://www.theverge.com/2018/3/11/1710 ... -sxsw-2018
If there was some sort of world-ending calamity, it would be good to have humans not in the world, but Musk isn't saying here that that's the reason for exploring Mars.
If we knew of a world-ending calamity on its way, I'd want to take my chances with going underground or living on the moon instead. No matter the technology, Mars seems like no picnic at all.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:56 pm

If a "world-ending calamity" came our way it wouldn't matter if you were underground or not. And living on the Moon requires as much, if not more, technology than living on Mars.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Rob Lister » Sat Dec 15, 2018 2:20 pm

For those that go on a one-way trip to colonize Mars, I suspect the novelty will wear off around week three of the trip out. By month three, you're seriously trying to find a way to turn the {!#%@} around.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:23 pm

That would depend on the person. A friend of mine in Canada sees other humans twice a year. They bring him supplies, he pays them in gold. He's happy panning, hunting, and just reveling in being alone.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Dec 15, 2018 4:55 pm

Chris Hadfield wrote about the many miseries of living in space. Not to mention becoming violently ill once he got back into earth's gravity. I suspect a large number of those who have signed up for a trip to Mars would have second thoughts once they get an idea of what the trip would be really like.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:25 pm

Landrew

99.999% of all humans would not volunteer in the first place. But WTF. It only takes a few.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:43 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:25 pm
Landrew

99.999% of all humans would not volunteer in the first place. But WTF. It only takes a few.
I think we need to build a simulator first, where people can experience the long slow road to misery and death.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.