Mars Lunacy

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JO 753
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:59 am

Poodle wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:43 am
https://er.jsc.nasa.gov/seh/ricetalk.htm
"We choose to go to the moon.
Frum that paje:
See and hear the entire speech for 56K modem download [8.7 megabytes in a .asf movie format which requires Windows Media Player 7 (speech lasts about 33 minutes)].
Reminded me that I klikt on this link in 2001 wen I paid 25$ per month for AOL blazing fast 56k dial-up servis.

It wuz taking quite a wile to connect, so I went and did sumthing else and forgot about it for a few owrz. Wen I got back I saw that it wuz buffering, so - Kool! going to see video on my computer! Took forever buffering, so I went off and forgot about it. owrz dayz weeks months.

By then I wuz really too deeply invested to just let it go, but I needed to do sum computer stuff, so I just bot another computer!

Forgot about it, but there it iz now, stuffed into the corner uv the computer junk clozet, piled under, still connected!

I dug it out and It JUST FINISHED BUFFERING!
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Poodle » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:10 am

Well, I hate to tell you this, JO - but he died.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:19 am

Awe man! Dont tell me like that!

You gotta brake bad newz to peepl jently.

For example:
'Your dog got out the attic window to the roof. We tried to get him down for owrz, but eventually, he got confuzed and, sorry, he fell off.'
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Poodle » Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:02 am

Sorry, Jo ...OK.
Your President got out the attic window to the roof ... ... ... ...

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:32 pm

Awwwww, don't do that! Horrible.FAKE.NEWS! :shakefist:
.
Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:13 pm

The vid woudnt play. I found an archived chatroom discussion from 2008 that sez to download SpazMataz 8.1 on a new computer, transfer it to 5 floppy discs, then install it on the old computer (you may need a patch) and then you can see the vid in a 32 x 32 pixel format.




for the benefit uv yung wippersnapper memberz hoo arent getting it, this iz all just a joke mokking the rediculous idea uv a 33 minit video on dial up. And the thing about 'on the roof' iz a joke from the movie Capricorn 1.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:22 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:13 pm
The vid woudnt play. I found an archived chatroom discussion from 2008 that sez to download SpazMataz 8.1 on a new computer, transfer it to 5 floppy discs, then install it on the old computer (you may need a patch) and then you can see the vid in a 32 x 32 pixel format.




for the benefit uv yung wippersnapper memberz hoo arent getting it, this iz all just a joke mokking the rediculous idea uv a 33 minit video on dial up. And the thing about 'on the roof' iz a joke from the movie Capricorn 1.
What's stopping you?
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:37 am

My crosstime surfboard iz in the shop.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:57 pm

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:11 pm

Mars: Oxygen-rich, life-supporting liquid water?
Model describing conditions under which oxygenated water could exist on Mars challenges traditional beliefs about planet's habitability
Date: October 22, 2018
Source: California Institute of Technology
Summary: Given the right circumstances, water on Mars could hold more oxygen than previously believed, theoretically enough to support aerobic respiration, new research suggests.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:26 pm

A self-sustaining colony on Mars probably could be done.
My question is why should it be done?
I think we currently inhabit about 4% of the earth's surface. Isn't it a bit premature to trash this home and go out trying to build another one that will require an unimaginable amount of work, resources, technology and money?
Great idea for next century perhaps; not even a good idea now.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm

You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:16 pm

And he seems to think that if you spend money on something, it disappears into a black hole (the money, I mean)
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:03 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:16 pm
And he seems to think that if you spend money on something, it disappears into a black hole (the money, I mean)
Not really. A sense of proportion is my main concern. It's just my opinion that the costs of overcoming all the challenges exceeds our ability to currently do so.
To me, it's like sending men to the moon during World War II. It simply exceeded our abilities at the time. I feel the same way about a Mars colony.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:26 pm

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
But if we wait until all the resources are used up before setting up somewhere else, there may not be the resources left to set up somewhere else.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:31 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:26 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
But if we wait until all the resources are used up before setting up somewhere else, there may not be the resources left to set up somewhere else.
Think of all the terraforming, recycling and developing renewable energy we could do, before we ever set foot on Mars. It's not yet time to start the clock.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:35 pm

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:31 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:26 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
But if we wait until all the resources are used up before setting up somewhere else, there may not be the resources left to set up somewhere else.
Think of all the terraforming, recycling and developing renewable energy we could do, before we ever set foot on Mars. It's not yet time to start the clock.
Why not? It seems to me the first steps are to figure out how to survive. Biodome1. . . biodome2. . . biodome3 . . . biodomen.

Not particularly costly, and lots of stuff to learn.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:36 pm

The resources needed to set up a colony on Mars would be a tiny fraction what the USA spends on what is hilariously called "defence ".

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:47 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:35 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:31 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:26 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
But if we wait until all the resources are used up before setting up somewhere else, there may not be the resources left to set up somewhere else.
Think of all the terraforming, recycling and developing renewable energy we could do, before we ever set foot on Mars. It's not yet time to start the clock.
Why not? It seems to me the first steps are to figure out how to survive. Biodome1. . . biodome2. . . biodome3 . . . biodomen.

Not particularly costly, and lots of stuff to learn.
The biosphere experiments have shown us more reasons not to proceed, due to uncovering some severe limitations in our ability to design self contained biospheres. No one is saying all the hurdles won't be eventually crossed, but it would be more appropriate to continue those experiments once the science had advanced a bit more, in the future. But there's nothing wrong with research, as long as it can be applied to the present timeline in a useful manner.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:20 pm

The only way to know if the science has progressed fr enough to build a sustainable biodome is to build a sustainable biodome. In the meantime, we will build unsustainable ones and figure out what is going wrong. Step by step by step. Like everything else.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:30 pm

The biodome project required zero input, apart from sunlight, during the experiment, which was a problem. A Mars colony would not have that problem, with exploiting local resources permitted. This would have to include water, and probably minerals, and CO2 from the atmosphere via a power compressor.

I still believe a better approach is to build sustainable in space, mobile to exploit space detritus, which has a lot more resources than the surface of Mars, and no gravity to fight.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:00 pm

Well, finding CO2 shouldn't be a problem.
The atmosphere of Mars is about 100 times thinner than Earth's, and it is 95 percent carbon dioxide. Here's a breakdown of its composition, according to a NASA fact sheet: Carbon dioxide: 95.32 percent. Nitrogen: 2.7 percent.Sep 11, 2017
Mars' Atmosphere: Composition, Climate & Weather - Space.com
https://www.space.com/16903-mars-atmosp ... ather.html
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33 pm

Very true.
And with CO2 and water, plus energy, crop plants can manufacture food, oxygen and fuel.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:48 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:33 pm
Very true.
And with CO2 and water, plus energy, crop plants can manufacture food, oxygen and fuel.
We won't get there by cherry-picking. The soil is highly toxic due to perchlorates.
https://www.space.com/21554-mars-toxic- ... icals.html
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:16 am

Landrew

Who needs the existing soil ?

You can make very good soil by grinding up rock, and mixing it with night soil. It goes without saying that any Mars colony will be equipped with the best technology.

Or else you can grow crops hydroponically. Very efficient !

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:54 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:16 am
Landrew

Who needs the existing soil ?

You can make very good soil by grinding up rock, and mixing it with night soil. It goes without saying that any Mars colony will be equipped with the best technology.

Or else you can grow crops hydroponically. Very efficient !
There's no shortage of good ideas for us to use on Mars, but we have to solve all the problems before we can even think about going there. Currently the unsolved problems have us outnumbered.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am

So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:31 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
Indeed... Mars wouldn’t be far enough. Maybe another galaxy?

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Austin Harper » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:39 am

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:05 pm
Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
That's my argument to counter the argument that this earth is "used up." It's not; at least not to the level that we need to leave it and set up living elsewhere.
Nobody is saying it's used up.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:44 am

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:26 pm
A self-sustaining colony on Mars probably could be done.
My question is why should it be done?
In case the Earth gets trashed suddenly. Givez us a small chans uv not going extinct.
I think we currently inhabit about 4% of the earth's surface.
Yet sumhow that 4% iz way too much alredy and we are wiping out other speciez at an alarming rate.

Developing a self sustaining biosfere coud help here on Earth. They coud be manufactured az a for-sale product and set up in previously uninhabitable areaz. Nesesity iz the mother uv invention - the 1st wunz will hav all sorts uv problemz, the next jeneration will be better, and eventually they are 'ready for prime time'.

Bottom line: The sooner we start, the sooner we get there.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:50 am

Austin Harper wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:52 pm
You think to seem humans living on Mars means we're giving up on Earth.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:28 am

JO 753 wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:44 am
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:26 pm
A self-sustaining colony on Mars probably could be done.
My question is why should it be done?
In case the Earth gets trashed suddenly. Givez us a small chans uv not going extinct.
I think we currently inhabit about 4% of the earth's surface.
Yet sumhow that 4% iz way too much alredy and we are wiping out other speciez at an alarming rate.

Developing a self sustaining biosfere coud help here on Earth. They coud be manufactured az a for-sale product and set up in previously uninhabitable areaz. Nesesity iz the mother uv invention - the 1st wunz will hav all sorts uv problemz, the next jeneration will be better, and eventually they are 'ready for prime time'.

Bottom line: The sooner we start, the sooner we get there.
Starting too soon is the mistake. We can't afford to start now. We have to wait at least 50 years to make it worthwhile.
None of that makes any sense. The earth won't be destroyed before Mars turns into a thriving planet. Mars won't save us.
I never said we shouldn't go to Mars, but it's orders of magnitude away from anything we can handle in the foreseeable future.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:29 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
YOU aren't qualified to make that call.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by JO 753 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:02 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:28 am
Starting too soon is the mistake. We can't afford to start now. We have to wait at least 50 years to make it worthwhile.
None of that makes any sense. The earth won't be destroyed before Mars turns into a thriving planet. Mars won't save us.
I never said we shouldn't go to Mars, but it's orders of magnitude away from anything we can handle in the foreseeable future.
No it iznt. Yes we can. No we shoudnt. Yes it duz. Got a crystal ball? It mite. Having a goal spurz the needed tek development.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:30 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:29 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:07 am
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:58 am
So, as soon as somebody goes there and sets up a successful colony it will be time to go there and set up a successful colony?
I understand your frustration, but it's far too early.
By a half a century or so in my opinion.
Don't worry, we'll get there; and then promptly lose interest.
YOU aren't qualified to make that call.
I'm qualified to have my opinion. I don't sign authorizations for Mars missions.
What's your point exactly?
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:39 pm

The first people to go to Mars will not be setting up a self sustaining colony. They will be explorers and researchers. Any colony will come much later, and after a lot more data has been gathered. By then, we should know a lot more about what resources will be locally available.

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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:53 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:39 pm
The first people to go to Mars will not be setting up a self sustaining colony. They will be explorers and researchers. Any colony will come much later, and after a lot more data has been gathered. By then, we should know a lot more about what resources will be locally available.
I respect your opinion, but according to my information we aren't ready for even a visit. Currently, it would be a one-way trip, and we haven't conquered the radiation problem at all yet.
Cyanide pills would be a must.
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Re: Mars Lunacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:27 pm

You may be right that we are not ready yet. But I suspect that the time is not far away. I certainly expect the first people in Mars within ten years.