Solar Roadways Again???

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ElectricMonk
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:11 pm

solar power generation will always be proportional to photon density, which depends on light angle and intensity - no technological breakthrough will change that.

What might work is piezo-electric elements in the road, but it would probably not be worth the effort.

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:16 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:21 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:39 pm
Gord wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:12 am
Yeah, it's absurd to embed pretty much any of that breakable stuff into a road surface, including lights, sensors, and heating panels.
This should be in the frauds forum. Millions have been wasted on this foolishness already.
And yet: its already working: https://www.bing.com/search?q=roads+sol ... m11qdcedZb
It's working like a $5000 air force hammer.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:24 pm

All "new tech" is expensive at first, and then Moore's Law takes over.

Whadda bunch of Luddites......and thats the most polite characterization.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:24 pm
All "new tech" is expensive at first, and then Moore's Law takes over.

Whadda bunch of Luddites......and thats the most polite characterization.
A perpetual motion machine is exempt from Moore's Law.
The energy yield expected is many multiples of what it could possibly produce.
The costs are absurd and on a different plane of existence.

Five minutes of research would establish that.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 am

landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm
A perpetual motion machine is exempt from Moore's Law.
Perpetual motion machines don't exist and the concept violates basic laws of physics. Not recognizing such simple facts is not the path to FUTURE TECH.
landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm
The energy yield expected is many multiples of what it could possibly produce.
Sounds like you have never dated an ugly girl. If she doesn't meet your expectations: lower your expectations. Success will surely follow.

landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm
The energy yield expected is many multiples of what it could possibly produce.
Rejecting all unknown future progress as impossible is the comment of a ………………………….. well...……..you know.
landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm
The costs are absurd and on a different plane of existence.
thats just a made up, baseless, conclusionary statement. Do you have cost figures on "anything?" ......... I didn't think so. The google search to several current working such projects shows the tech even now is not absurd...unless you think the cost elements of remote locations that require low maintenance off the grid electrical service is "a different plane of existence." Is that it city boy?
landrew wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 4:31 pm
Five minutes of research would establish that.
Gee, the Google results show that is not true and only took one minute. You've been lapped again.

FUTURE TECH: changes assumptions. Imagine that........evidently, too high a bar?
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:39 am

bobbo, expectations are important, since an unlikely tech will get let Venture Capital than a probable one.

Unless you live near the equator, putting solar panels flat on the floor will always be much less efficient than setting them up according to latitude. Hence there will be less investment in solar roadways.

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 am

Quite true EM....but Venture Capital is always late to the game. Most progress is made by gubment/military/Foundation programs or a lone crusader and more and more by crowd funding.

You know, while I am half just yanking on the chain...….the refusal to allow the future to express itself is quite powerful for this little side issue. And still: for the most part, being stuck on the tech of photovoltaics rather than thermodynamics or piezoelectrical and whatever other tech might apply. Snakes go the roadways after the sun goes down to catch a bit of warmth: aka: still energy there after the sun has been ineffective for hours.

Skeptical: to all things denial. Why stake out such a position??? Let all ideas proceed as they may...………….
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:13 pm

The last place I expected the concept of Solar Roadways to be believed was in a skeptics forum. The concept has been thoroughly debunked 9 ways from Sunday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzzz5DdzyWY
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:47 am
Quite true EM....but Venture Capital is always late to the game. Most progress is made by gubment/military/Foundation programs or a lone crusader and more and more by crowd funding.

You know, while I am half just yanking on the chain...….the refusal to allow the future to express itself is quite powerful for this little side issue. And still: for the most part, being stuck on the tech of photovoltaics rather than thermodynamics or piezoelectrical and whatever other tech might apply. Snakes go the roadways after the sun goes down to catch a bit of warmth: aka: still energy there after the sun has been ineffective for hours.

Skeptical: to all things denial. Why stake out such a position??? Let all ideas proceed as they may...………….
It's proceeding but not without massive subsidies and a huge dose of scientific illiteracy.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:19 pm

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm
It's proceeding but not without massive subsidies and a huge dose of scientific illiteracy.
Name ..............one.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:19 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm
It's proceeding but not without massive subsidies and a huge dose of scientific illiteracy.
Name ..............one.
Name what? As I said, 5 minutes of internet research.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:25 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:19 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm
It's proceeding but not without massive subsidies and a huge dose of scientific illiteracy.
Name ..............one.
Name what? As I said, 5 minutes of internet research.
Name one....and provide the link.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:16 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sun Oct 21, 2018 10:09 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:25 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 3:19 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:14 pm
It's proceeding but not without massive subsidies and a huge dose of scientific illiteracy.
Name ..............one.
Name what? As I said, 5 minutes of internet research.
Name one....and provide the link.
Are you actually defending this daft idea?
These two highly qualified people have debunked the idea to below sea level:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obS6TUVSZds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mzzz5DdzyWY
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:15 am

Gee Landrew: You are stuck on Stupid "something I would not have expected on a Skeptics Forum."

I've told you THREE TIMES: not to get hung up on PHOTOVOLTAICS to instead look at NEW TECHNOLOGY like thermal conversion or piezo-electrical. Posting two links to photovoltaics is just plain stupid.

Got anything on point?
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:49 pm

One of the weaknesses of solar panels is the need to keep them clean. We often see proposals to set up solar energy farms in the Sahara, or similar sites. No one seems to add the cost of cleaning the panels of desert dust, which falls continuously.

In a road, the problem is even worse, with rubber crossing the panels and smearing them continuously.

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:12 pm

I can probably think of a few hundred better places to put a solar panel than embedding in a road surface.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:40 am

landrew wrote:
Tue Oct 23, 2018 11:12 pm
I can probably think of a few hundred better places to put a solar panel than embedding in a road surface.
Hats. Solar powered hats.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:43 am

Still all stuck on photovoltaics.

……..………………………….How big a hammer does it take?
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:37 am

Solar powered hammers!
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:57 am

solar powered tanning beds.

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by TJrandom » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:09 am

Solar powered beehive lids to zap predators... (just don’t zap me…)

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:03 am

All good suggestions. If we admit to the wear and tear on photovoltaics in the roadway, imagine the stress on a hammer? Just because it "can be" done, doesn't mean it "should be" done.

……..reminds me of a friend though years ago of having a solar polared lightbulb for use in his living room. He kinda got pissed when I simply opened up his drawn curtains.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:54 pm

Solar powered Christmas trees!
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm

Gord wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:54 pm
Solar powered Christmas trees!
https://www.ebay.com/bhp/solar-powered-christmas-tree
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:08 am

landrew wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm
Gord wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:54 pm
Solar powered Christmas trees!
https://www.ebay.com/bhp/solar-powered-christmas-tree
Solar Powered 100 200 LEDs String Fairy Tree Light Outdoor Wedding Party Xmas i
Sounds complicated.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:10 am

This sums up the boondoggle that is solar roadways. It's like a perpetual motion machine, in that scientific illiterates imagine that it will put out more than you put in.

It's an old joke I heard as a kid:
Old man: "I lost all my money and went bankrupt."
Younger man: "How?"
"I was selling shoes at a loss of ten cents apiece."
"Why?"
"I thought I could make it up with volume."

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:44 am

Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:08 am
landrew wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm
Gord wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:54 pm
Solar powered Christmas trees!
https://www.ebay.com/bhp/solar-powered-christmas-tree
Solar Powered 100 200 LEDs String Fairy Tree Light Outdoor Wedding Party Xmas i
Sounds complicated.
I googled your avatar. Thomas de Mahy, marquis de Favras.
Very good, someone who pointed out spelling mistakes in his death sentence.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:46 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:44 am
Gord wrote:
Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:08 am
landrew wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:31 pm
Gord wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:54 pm
Solar powered Christmas trees!
https://www.ebay.com/bhp/solar-powered-christmas-tree
Solar Powered 100 200 LEDs String Fairy Tree Light Outdoor Wedding Party Xmas i
Sounds complicated.
I googled your avatar. Thomas de Mahy, marquis de Favras.
Very good, someone who pointed out spelling mistakes in his death sentence.
Yes. I took it from here: http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.p ... 72#p666772
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:47 pm

landrew + Gord: a most excellent exchange. What is that scientific term for something that feeds on itself? ((Thats not any kind of review, just a connection my own brain made.))
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:21 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:47 pm
What is that scientific term for something that feeds on itself?
There's a what now? Are you thinking of the Ouroboros?
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:58 pm

Ouroboros. Thats it exactly. I was drawing a complete blank and did not want to default to many insect and amphibian larval stages that consume themselves to be reborn. There might be another variation with a very negative connotation...if Ouroboros doesn't have one itself? Can eating yourself ever be a good thing???

Thanks.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:32 am

Issit really eating itself? Or did someone step on its tail? :-P
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:11 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:58 pm
Can eating yourself ever be a good thing???
Ummmm...I don't know, but I heard rumours in high school?...
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:43 am

Now, Solar Waterways might make a lot of sense to use mass-scale:

Ars Technica: Floating solar is more than panels on a platform—it’s hydroelectric’s symbiont.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/11 ... -symbiont/


Advantages:
- reduces heat absorbed by water, thereby reducing evaporation
- complements hydroelectric power when water levels are low
- doesn't take up precious land space

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:26 pm

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Nov 04, 2018 4:42 pm

Watervoltaics: "Looks like I picked a bad time to start waterskiing."

Roads: Yep. Been covered x10. It is trying to fit old tech to new situations. Something different will be used......if at all for using all that road space. I'm still going with thermal conversion. Easily cheaper....cost as always being the control.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by Gord » Mon Nov 05, 2018 11:55 am

I think I'll wait for Solar Spaceforceways before I invest my money in this biz.
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:03 pm

Are we really so scientifically illiterate that we needed to spend millions just to prove the infeasibility of an idea that was obviously a no-go from the beginning?
https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles ... gs.BT8TtRY
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:34 pm

So..........Edison should have gone back to gas after the first horse hair only lasted .2 seconds?

......................there goes progress................."Back to the Caves Men, we ain't going into no-go territory................"
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Re: Solar Roadways Again???

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:47 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:34 pm
So..........Edison should have gone back to gas after the first horse hair only lasted .2 seconds?

......................there goes progress................."Back to the Caves Men, we ain't going into no-go territory................"
Why am I not surprised that you'd think this idea had a chance?
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