boeing 737 max 8

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:30 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:07 pm
psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:29 pm

without looking it up again , so i might be wrong j/k /// me too

tv show with maybe his instructor ?? /// He had that vibe....but also his plane mechanic?

left late so it was dark over the ocean halfway thru the flight ./// Correct but it was a "haze" weather condition that blocked the horizon, that, pluse he turned to the East so that he lost sight of "City Lights" which impliedly was giving or could have given him an horizon

plane had retractable landing gear , harder to keep level -/// I've never heard that to be the case....just something to remember on landing

not rated for that new plane . //// Well...his instructor/mechanic was kinda adamant about how he would have or would not have let Kennedy fly the airplane "if" this that and the other thing.......I assume he was rated to fly the airplane.

instructor took the reporter up in same type of plane -
demonstrated how easy it is to get in trouble , impossible to recover in the dark ///NO. You post just like lamedude. THIS is the whole point of my post: that even very low time pilots are taught to "know" and rely on their instruments: most basically the artificial horizon. Its as easy as pie to fly straight and level with an artificial horizon. So..............why didn't Kennedy use it?
John F. Kennedy Jr. should not have flown the night he died, says pal:
‘That is not easy for me to say’

People magazine recently reported that in his book, Gillon described how on the afternoon of July 16, Kennedy, 38, checked the weather before he left the office for the airport in Essex, N.J, where he kept his plane.
The forecast indicated clear skies, which “was crucial since he was flying under visual flight rules rather than relying on instruments,” Gillon wrote. According to the outlet, Kennedy had only completed half of the lessons in his instrument training course at that time.
However, the weather deteriorated between the time Kennedy left the office and when he arrived at the airport. By the time his plane took off at 8:38 p.m., Kennedy was heading into a thick fog. People shared that shortly after 9:40 p.m., Kennedy became disoriented and his plane entered a downward spiral.

*** flying under visual flight rules

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:38 pm

your belief that all he had to do is look at his instruments , is probably the same thinking of a lot of pilots - who crashed .

over confidence

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:41 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:06 pm
If your airspeed is too low you can still be falling and think you're flying straight and level if you're just going by the artificial horizon.

If you're blind and any one of your artificial horizon, airspeed, altimeter, or compass are giving false readings, you're gonna land at Destination {!#%@}.
according to the tv show about it - instruments can be perfect .
doesn't take much / a few seconds of distraction / a couple women --- and your in trouble

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:46 pm

just realized - he probably thought that since he could fly ok with an instructor . figured he could fly alone .
but he wasn't alone .

same thing with that helicopter crash a month ago - 3 young college women on vacation

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by Major Malfunction » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:53 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:41 pm
doesn't take much / a few seconds of distraction / a couple women --- and your in trouble
That's true. I found that out on one of my 737 sim runs. I kept landing and my co-pilot/engineer was getting a bit annoyed with a total n00b landing, so he was trying to kill me. He kept cranking up the difficulty. This run was night in heavy fog.

So we're coming in for total instrument landing. Everything's going smooth, right on vector, we've got a bit of a rapport going by now, chatting away, he said something funny, I looked at him and laughed. In that fraction of a second the runway appeared and I screamed "FUUUUCK!!!" Feet to the firewall and yanked back on the yoke hard as I can.

We hit hard. And this is with the physics on, so we felt it. And we bounced. And then I had to slam the yoke forwards again to get the nose back down, and then yank back again, and we bounced again, nose down again, got my glide on, touch down, slam on the brakes, and stopped just short of the end of the runway.

I just looked at him and said, "I think we'll need to lodge an incident report for that landing. And get the suspension checked." He was like, "Yep."
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:36 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:38 pm
your belief that all he had to do is look at his instruments , is probably the same thinking of a lot of pilots - who crashed .

over confidence
Thats a silly manipulation of what was posted. Better stick with simulators.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:07 am

It's quite absurd to imagine that planes crash because pilots forget to look at their instruments.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:30 am

You could say something similar about driving a car.

If you watch a few hundred crash videos, you might start to question why you would even get out of bed.

If you want to know why we don't have flying cars yet. That's why.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:44 am

landrew wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:07 am
It's quite absurd to imagine that planes crash because pilots forget to look at their instruments.
They look at the wrong instruments: aka: target fixation. And thats exactly what Kennedy did...….assuming he ever got enough training/experience in the skill.

How does ANYONE with working instruments get into a death spiral?
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by Major Malfunction » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:24 am

People fall asleep, too.

It's happened to me more times than I'd like to admit.

You can feel fine until suddenly your eyes start closing. You can't fight it.

If you're driving you can pull over and have a snooze. If you're flying you don't have that luxury.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:26 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:44 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:07 am
It's quite absurd to imagine that planes crash because pilots forget to look at their instruments.
They look at the wrong instruments: aka: target fixation. And thats exactly what Kennedy did...….assuming he ever got enough training/experience in the skill.

How does ANYONE with working instruments get into a death spiral?
yadda yadda...
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:46 pm

No landrew, its not yada yada at all. You know......you take your ignorance and refusal to learn/admit the truth/recognize your betters from shield to spear to some kind of imagined award.

Silly hooman.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:29 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 4:46 pm
No landrew, its not yada yada at all. You know......you take your ignorance and refusal to learn/admit the truth/recognize your betters from shield to spear to some kind of imagined award.

Silly hooman.
By now you think you've proven to everyone that you are winning your stupid arguments by babbling on and on as if you are winning. As a result, no one takes you seriously anymore.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:35 pm

No lamedude. YOU claim winning..........and I correct the record.

Look at yourself for Christ Sake. You don't wanna die this way .............. do you?????
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:39 pm

.........and I will add I correct the record not for any "contest" between us but rather for the innocents who may pass by and take your nonsense for anything worth remembering.

Trust Science. Trust your Instruments. Until good reason exists not to.

.............................simple.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:01 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 5:39 pm
.........and I will add I correct the record not for any "contest" between us but rather for the innocents who may pass by and take your nonsense for anything worth remembering.

Trust Science. Trust your Instruments. Until good reason exists not to.

.............................simple.
Drink less, make more sense.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Start drinking: have an excuse.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:16 pm

Does This Scenario Explain JFK Jr.'s Plane Crash?
459,652 views

https://www.youtube.com/user/smithsonianchannel

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWqPRU ... -PVbqEch9g

A distracting radio issue, a hazy night, and a new pilot unsure of his instruments. According to investigators, these were some of the possible factors that led to John F. Kennedy Jr.'s tragic plane crash.

From: AIR DISASTERS: The Death of JFK Jr.
http://bit.ly/2k8cxnv

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm

pias: why the rehash? I mentioned it only to point out the value of instruments which is what Artificial Inteligence/Autopilots ////GOOD PILOTS//// use to fly airplanes.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/05/tv-specia ... ed-flight/

Its a truism in flying that lawyers and doctors buy the farm more than less educated people. Guess why?
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:19 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm
Its a truism in flying that lawyers and doctors buy the farm more than less educated people. Guess why?
That's a ridiculous interpretation. Commercial pilots have to be accountable to their employers who assess their ability to fly safely. Doctors and lawyers usually own their own planes and are not accountable to anyone. Bad habits go unnoticed.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:21 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm
pias: why the rehash? I mentioned it only to point out the value of instruments which is what Artificial Inteligence/Autopilots ////GOOD PILOTS//// use to fly airplanes.

https://nypost.com/2019/01/05/tv-specia ... ed-flight/

Its a truism in flying that lawyers and doctors buy the farm more than less educated people. Guess why?
overconfident ?

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:08 am

Ha, ha...................why------yes but more shading on the egotism of it. An abysmal application of the Appeal to Authority logical fallacy.
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:44 am

landrew wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:19 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm
Its a truism in flying that lawyers and doctors buy the farm more than less educated people. Guess why?
That's a ridiculous interpretation. Commercial pilots have to be accountable to their employers who assess their ability to fly safely. Doctors and lawyers usually own their own planes and are not accountable to anyone. Bad habits go unnoticed.
You're doing this on purpose right? Grabbing hold of the wrong end of the stick. Some kind of mental dyslexia?????
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:48 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:44 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:19 pm
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 11:04 pm
Its a truism in flying that lawyers and doctors buy the farm more than less educated people. Guess why?
That's a ridiculous interpretation. Commercial pilots have to be accountable to their employers who assess their ability to fly safely. Doctors and lawyers usually own their own planes and are not accountable to anyone. Bad habits go unnoticed.
You're doing this on purpose right? Grabbing hold of the wrong end of the stick. Some kind of mental dyslexia?????
Still doubling down on the stupid &*^$% you say. Did you have a spoiled childhood?
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:46 pm

bet the people at BOEING are having similar arguments .
no chance of ever getting anything done .

should be sold

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:48 pm

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:46 pm
bet the people at BOEING are having similar arguments .
What argument is that?
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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Thu Aug 15, 2019 3:27 am

This bears repeating:
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by psychiatry is a scam » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:45 pm

thanks , that is the video I first saw .
looks a bit different , they might of changed it , or I could be wrong j/k

main idea is still there -

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Re: boeing 737 max 8

Post by landrew » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:20 pm

I remember back in the 60s when the US networks used to do exposées on big companies. But I suppose it got got too complicated with the advertisers, so you don't see them much anymore, unless their going after some little guy like a dishonest car dealer. Canadian networks used to do a few more big ones through the 70s and 80s, but I suppose the corporate tentacles reached there eventually too.

So far, the Australians seem to remain fairly immune from this type of corporate censorship, so I wish them success in continuing to carry the torch for the Fourth Estate.
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