The curse of the HMS Terror

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landrew
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The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by landrew » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:56 pm

Some residents of an Arctic hamlet located near the Franklin shipwrecks have linked a spate of tragic deaths in the community to divers poking around the sea floor resting places of long-dead crew members.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/frankl ... -1.4946976
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 2:23 am

Of course they didn't find bones - the zombies are hiding out on the other side of the island... (Drat, I am sure that just now I felt the mind warp of gorgeous, planting that thought in my head...)

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 3:07 am

We have the same thing here in New Zealand, where our indigenous people manage to make extra money for little effort by clearing curses. Funny how the people who simply ignore the curses never come to harm !

I was scuba diving a few years back on a shipwreck in Rabaul Harbour (Papua New Guinea). It was a WWII Japanese merchant ship sunk by American aircraft. We discovered that the steel decking had collapsed, and done so very recently. On the deck below was a pile of human bones. Our dive guide told us we had to keep very quiet about that discovery, or the native local people would have done something quite drastic, and violent. If it carried a curse, it strangely missed me, since I have prospered in the years since.

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by landrew » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:22 pm

I was once required to attend an industry course on cultural tolerance and sensitivity training. When dealing with indigenous groups, sometimes our negative skeptical reflex to their beliefs is strictly forbidden and labeled as cultural bigotry and intolerance. It's easy to justify skepticism within the context of our own culture, but we need to be careful about crossing the line when dealing with cultures who believe things differently than ourselves.

The day is not far off where lack of reverence towards what appears to be naive superstition, is perceived as cultural intolerance and could draw censure or sanction.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:57 pm

What? I can’t criticize Trumpists? :cry:

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:44 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:57 pm
What? I can’t criticize Trumpists? :cry:
You can, but it has to be in some neutral context, such as comparing them to poisonous spiders in your knickers.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:00 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 7:44 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 4:57 pm
What? I can’t criticize Trumpists? :cry:
You can, but it has to be in some neutral context, such as comparing them to poisonous spiders in your knickers.
Shake them out and stomp on them? Burn them with a blowtorch? Throw them in the trash? Naw - these would be too nice to Trumpists...

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by landrew » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:25 am

Well, who are we to declare cultural beliefs nonsense? It seems to me that the missionaries were in that business for a long time, and they caused more than their share of problems.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by Gord » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:13 am

landrew wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:25 am
Well, who are we to declare cultural beliefs nonsense?
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:15 am

Yes. My feelings exactly. As a good skeptic, I oppose bull shite, superstition and irrational nonsense.

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:29 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:15 am
Yes. My feelings exactly. As a good skeptic, I oppose bull shite, superstition and irrational nonsense.
Eerm... an expression of cultural belief? :roll:

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by landrew » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:30 pm

It's not that I want to have an open mind to supernatural beliefs in spirits of the dead and curses, but at least some Canadian government officials are beginning to see negative skepticism toward such cultural beliefs as cultural intolerance. There may be new laws on the way to enshrine such beliefs under human rights legislation for all we know.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:47 pm

My sympathies, landrew. Idiotic governments are a burden we all bear.

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by TJrandom » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:52 pm

Landrew - can you offer an example of a cultural belief which might become legally protected?

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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by landrew » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:20 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:52 pm
Landrew - can you offer an example of a cultural belief which might become legally protected?
Of course not. I'm speculating based on what I've seen and heard, like most of us. The tone of the news article seems to lean that way, and I think it's a future possibility that's worth discussing.
The seminar I attended was intended to increase understanding between the oil & gas industry and indigenous people with regard to resource development. The presenters made it very clear that although we may not share indigenous cultural beliefs, it was wrong to deride them as silly or inconsequential. For example a tree may appear to us to be very ordinary, and it may be in the way of building a road, but it may be a very sacred tree to the indigenous tribe involved. We were encouraged to show respect for such beliefs, even though it may be in our first nature to ignore or ridicule such things as skeptics. I speculated that some day those beliefs may become enshrined in laws. That's the point I was trying to make.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:30 pm

Ha, ha.......cultural sensitivity. BS goes from being mocked to must be praised.

Comcast has Free Acorn TV this week so I'm watching "A Place to Call Home". Episode 408. Three of my favorites right in a row: 1. Two young strapping handsome Males kissing each other, followed by Mommie loving the baby, then a Catholic spreading his religion based bigotry aginst the first two. ((I dont' know if thats what the grape farmer did THIS time, but thats what he's been doing for the previous two seasons....I had the sound off just looking at the scenery around Inverness.......)).

We took their countries away from them...............I suppose its ok to be sensitive to the rest. TRUTH vs Values. I find the TRUTH a higher value than respect for BS........thats why I look for it in what I think as well. ................. and it is there. when I rely on it, I at least recognize I'm doing it.
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Re: The curse of the HMS Terror

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:42 pm

landrew wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 5:30 pm
It's not that I want to have an open mind to supernatural beliefs in spirits of the dead and curses, but at least some Canadian government officials are beginning to see negative skepticism toward such cultural beliefs as cultural intolerance. There may be new laws on the way to enshrine such beliefs under human rights legislation for all we know.
They would have a hard time getting such legislation past the SCOC. In a recent ruling they decided (9-0) that religious people have the right to declare something sacred, but do not have the right to insist that anyone else hold it sacred.

Every culture is riddled with nonsense beliefs. There is a time and place for respect, and a time and place for skepticism.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero