Is mind uploading possible?

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Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Obsessed_With_Gaming » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:05 am

Is mind uploading possible in the foreseeable future and would it be you or just a copy of you?

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by ElectricMonk » Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:59 am

Hi there and welcome.

I don't think the question of "copy" is relevant: you could argue that who woke up this morning in your bed was just a copy of the person who went to sleep last night.
Only relevant is whether the Upload thinks of itself as a person, and it is treated as such.
Technologically, we currently can see no reason why this wouldn't, in theory, be possible.
But even being very optimistic, I doubt it could happen within the next 50 years.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:37 am

I uploaded my mind many years ago. It took many years of education.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gord » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:18 am

Just a copy. But it wouldn't know that. You, however, would know it wasn't you.
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"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:46 am

Before an upload is considered, a download would have to be performed. We can't do that, nor do we know if such a thing is even vaguely possible. I suspect faster-than-light travel will take priority.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by gorgeous » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:01 pm

------The Washington Post------Sammy Hagar was abducted by aliens. It’s true. In an interview with MTV Hive — the new MTV Web site — he says he’s certain that decades ago, extraterrestrials tapped into his mind.

------------“It was real,” Hagar says. “[Aliens] were plugged into me. It was a download situation. This was long before computers or any kind of wireless.There weren’t even wireless telephones. Looking back now, it was like, ‘[Expletive], they downloaded something into me! Or they uploaded something from my brain, like an experiment. See what this guy knows.’ ”
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by gorgeous » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm

and yes....aliens have pulled all a person's life memories from their mind...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Poodle » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:03 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm
and yes....aliens have pulled all a person's life memories from their mind...
:roll:

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:00 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm
and yes....aliens have pulled all a person's life memories from their mind...
Methinks they pulled a lot more from yours... :roll:

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:22 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:03 pm
and yes....aliens have pulled all a person's life memories from their mind...
You could be right, I'll grant you that possibility, but you need to provide some evidence.
Pay attention to the second song. It's called "Evidence."


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Theeeeeere's ev-i-de-ence
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:33 pm

Wasting your time, landrew.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by landrew » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:42 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:33 pm
Wasting your time, landrew.

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This forum would be a lonelier place without an opposing point of view.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by gorgeous » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:57 pm

where is a mind? can't prove it unless you can prove a mind exists...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:21 pm

Gord wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:18 am
Just a copy. But it wouldn't know that. You, however, would know it wasn't you.
That means that if you don't know you're not you then you're not you.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:54 pm

Obsessed_With_Gaming post wrote: Is mind uploading possible in the foreseeable future?
No. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that you cannot simultaneously know where an electron is and what its velocity is. Additionally, the observer effect means that the moment you measure an electron, to copy it, you collapse its waveform and alter its current activity.

As there are billions of neuron synapses in your brain,,exchanging electrons, you would never be able to exactly copy the brain, for the above two reasons. There are lots of other reasons, but these two end any question of copying the brain.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:33 am

Needs more Buck Rogers.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by landrew » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:54 pm
Obsessed_With_Gaming post wrote: Is mind uploading possible in the foreseeable future?
No. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that you cannot simultaneously know where an electron is and what its velocity is. Additionally, the observer effect means that the moment you measure an electron, to copy it, you collapse its waveform and alter its current activity.

As there are billions of neuron synapses in your brain,,exchanging electrons, you would never be able to exactly copy the brain, for the above two reasons. There are lots of other reasons, but these two end any question of copying the brain.
Although the nervous system exhibits electrical activity, the connections and functioning of the synapses are chemical. If some day we somehow manage to replicate the brain in perfect detail, I think it would function exactly as the original.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by ElectricMonk » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:35 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:54 pm
Obsessed_With_Gaming post wrote: Is mind uploading possible in the foreseeable future?
No. Heisenberg's uncertainty principle says that you cannot simultaneously know where an electron is and what its velocity is. Additionally, the observer effect means that the moment you measure an electron, to copy it, you collapse its waveform and alter its current activity.

As there are billions of neuron synapses in your brain,,exchanging electrons, you would never be able to exactly copy the brain, for the above two reasons. There are lots of other reasons, but these two end any question of copying the brain.
Substrate-chauvinist

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:39 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:21 pm
Gord wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:18 am
Just a copy. But it wouldn't know that. You, however, would know it wasn't you.
That means that if you don't know you're not you then you're not you.
Oh it means lots of stuff. Mostly somewhere in the back.

For instance, you're you whether you know it or not, but not-you isn't whether not-you knows it or not. But if not-not-you thinks not-you is you, then you are not-not-you and neither is not-you because not-not-you is the boss of you.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:53 pm

Gord wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:39 am
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:21 pm
Gord wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:18 am
Just a copy. But it wouldn't know that. You, however, would know it wasn't you.
That means that if you don't know you're not you then you're not you.
Oh it means lots of stuff. Mostly somewhere in the back.

For instance, you're you whether you know it or not, but not-you isn't whether not-you knows it or not. But if not-not-you thinks not-you is you, then you are not-not-you and neither is not-you because not-not-you is the boss of you.
It could mean that we are all uploads, and the real us's are living in paradise trying to make us do all the work.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gord » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:21 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:53 pm
Gord wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:39 am
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:21 pm
Gord wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:18 am
Just a copy. But it wouldn't know that. You, however, would know it wasn't you.
That means that if you don't know you're not you then you're not you.
Oh it means lots of stuff. Mostly somewhere in the back.

For instance, you're you whether you know it or not, but not-you isn't whether not-you knows it or not. But if not-not-you thinks not-you is you, then you are not-not-you and neither is not-you because not-not-you is the boss of you.
It could mean that we are all uploads, and the real us's are living in paradise trying to make us do all the work.
Then the real usses sure suck at it, don't they? [/lazybastard]
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm

Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by landrew » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:34 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
In a way, we are already doing it, albeit in bits and pieces.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by ElectricMonk » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:02 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
You massively overestimate the complexity of some people's minds.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:11 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
You may be assuming our minds are larger than they are.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Pyrrho » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:14 pm

Yeah...that could be a consideration. Just how complex is a human mind? It may be possible to mimic a human mind well enough to pass as genuinely human. Assuming that enough observations of a given human's behavior could lead to a successful duplication of that human's mental behavior, would that count as a "mind"? One's "mind" is a limited set of actions, after all, even if physical brain function is highly complex.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:25 pm

You can skip all the bits that keep the heart beating, manage the endocrine system, keep us from falling over when we walk, process incoming sensory data, and anything else that a computer containing our minds likely won't need.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by scrmbldggs » Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:51 pm

FOX Noise?
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:11 pm

Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
There is one in particular who seems to have no more than that which gets posted here - but I`m not telling. ;)

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gord » Mon Dec 10, 2018 5:48 am

TJrandom wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:11 pm
Pyrrho wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:38 pm
Even if there is a forum extension available, I don't think we have the server capacity for users to upload their minds. Have to settle for the bits and pieces you all put into posts.
There is one in particular who seems to have no more than that which gets posted here - but I`m not telling. ;)
Must you knock on every thing I do? :apu:
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:35 pm

I'm not telling...

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Skeptic1001 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:19 am

Obsessed_With_Gaming wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 5:05 am
Is mind uploading possible in the foreseeable future and would it be you or just a copy of you?
Pure speculation but I think that uploading your mind into a computer isn't fully possible on digital equipment. With analogue computers it might be possible but analogue science was cut short and is very primitive. My explanation for this would be your brain is an analogue frequency module (approximately) and relies on biorhythms and synaptical interchanges to operate. A digital computer is essentially two dimensional and operates on linear electrical pulses strewn through closing/opening gates and bit based memory. There's more to our brains than we know. Our brains operate in a three dimensional interchange with simultaneous operations blending together in every direction with pulses, chemical interactions, and a multitude of other things. If digital computing reached an advanced enough plateau it could theoretically emulate a human brain but it couldn't fully copy a brain because of those fundamental differences. Say that one day someone did actually upload a persons brain into a computer. Well then it would be a copy of you but divergent from your existence, sharing your memories but at the split gaining its own perspective. That leaves a lot to speculate on with the computer copy of you no longer needing a biological survival function. We use a lot of our time doing biologically driven things; sleeping, eating, sex, working, showering, shopping, playing. The computer copy of you wouldn't need to do those things. Then you would need to consider whether you might be tethered to your computer copy in some sort of quantum entanglement like twins do and if so who would have the dominant power, you or your copy?

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by ElectricMonk » Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am

I would argue that an uploaded mind running in an emulating would still require sleep, since that is what the human mind requires to function. Of course, once understood, this process might be vastly accelerated.

But the real question is: why do we care if the emulated mind is human as long as it is demonstrably a mind?

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:02 am

Not so sure I would care even then - a mind being beautiful and all, but without a super sexy body, no thanks. :D

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am
I would argue that an uploaded mind running in an emulating would still require sleep, since that is what the human mind requires to function. Of course, once understood, this process might be vastly accelerated.

But the real question is: why do we care if the emulated mind is human as long as it is demonstrably a mind?
Sleep is a biological function.
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:59 am

gorgeous wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:57 pm
where is a mind? can't prove it unless you can prove a mind exists...
EUREKA! I have succeeded in loading up Gorgeous's entire mind on this 5 1/4 inch floppy disk. Yep I now have the entire 160 kilobytes.
floppy disk.jpg
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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:19 am

That large? Oh, didn’t take the whole disk. What did you do - add the Encyclopedia Britanica too?

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by ElectricMonk » Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:06 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:25 am
ElectricMonk wrote:
Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:27 am
I would argue that an uploaded mind running in an emulating would still require sleep, since that is what the human mind requires to function. Of course, once understood, this process might be vastly accelerated.

But the real question is: why do we care if the emulated mind is human as long as it is demonstrably a mind?
Sleep is a biological function.
How would we know that?

Animals need sleep to recover and learn.
Computers need downtime, too, to flush Caches, update drivers, install new programs, self-check for problems.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by TJrandom » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:02 am

ElectricMonk wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 3:06 am
...

Computers need downtime, too, to flush Caches, update drivers, install new programs, self-check for problems.
Not sure I would call that downtime.

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Re: Is mind uploading possible?

Post by Gord » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:59 am
gorgeous wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:57 pm
where is a mind? can't prove it unless you can prove a mind exists...
EUREKA! I have succeeded in loading up Gorgeous's entire mind on this 5 1/4 inch floppy disk. Yep I now have the entire 160 kilobytes.
floppy disk.jpg
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?