The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

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Skeptic1001
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The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:26 pm

If you saw this thread title and thought to yourself, "Oh no, not another quantum science plug!" you're not alone. I am also tired of seeing all this quantum physics nonsense. The word quantum is beaten into my mind deeply and I keep questioning why on earth was it named that particular word with that particular spelling because it has become annoying to read the word quantum repeatedly and truthfully not give a damn. But quantum physics and computing is the wave of our future and it won't be retreating anytime soon.

With that in mind I nonetheless got something to add on this subject. My knowledge on quantum physics is rudimentary and limited to what is published in news articles and science magazines. I get the large picture and can visualize quantum function but my mathematics are sorely under suiting development to actually calculate anything on a quantum level so I'm not going to claim that I am an expert or got divine authority on this top level genius.

One of the key factors within the operating system of a quantum computer is that you cannot observe the computational process because the machine ceases to compute when someone watches, thus failing to get a result. As I understand this process, the operator must leave during the computations and then return once the computer finishes.

I thought about that a lot and looked for evidence of this same process within other factors of life. I thought perhaps this frenzy to invade privacy in the name of data collecting was somehow driven to its current state just because of this non-observational aspect of quantum computing. If you'll notice, the companies that are becoming the most invasive are the same companies that are investing in their own quantum computers. Perhaps the line of thought with them is that if quantum computing requires the operator to not observe the computer during computation in order to get useful results then maybe they applied that idea to people using their product (who doesn't use Google?) and with a heavy dose of superstition and a heavy hunger for power over their users they concluded that to nullify the power of their userbase they could simply invade their privacy and observe everything they do no matter how small and through that action they might be able to halt the mundane efforts of certain targets solely modeled on the premise that the quantum computer needs privacy to make great things happen.

We all know the obsessive nature of spying individuals and their addict like behavior when it comes to invading our privacy. Russia had the secret police, the U.S.A. has the C.I.A., there's other examples. Maybe they were all onto something.

Maybe I'm getting somewhere with this idea, I just hope I explained this thought good enough to make it understandable. Other related matters are in the case of twins who make the same choices although they aren't communicating or in some cases don't even know they have a twin. They say that the primary function of quantum science is simultaneous communication of two quantum particles over any distance without delay.

If you have something to add to this subject and can name other parallels between quantum physics and everyday life I would love to read about it. Or perhaps you can explain my idea in a simpler form with less word acrobatics. Thank you for your time.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:24 pm

Humm

I suspect that your understanding is limited. The observer effect does not mean you cannot watch a quantum computer in operation. It means nothing can interact with the quantum processing without influencing it. If you had a quantum computer and it was running a problem, you could watch it to your hearts content and not cause any problems. But in watching the computer, you are not influencing its operation.

There are also misconceptions held by many people about quantum particles that are entangled. You cannot pass information action simultaneously using them. That is because you cannot control how they change.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by gorgeous » Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:47 pm

Seth and others have said we are all reading each other's minds all the time...how some know who will make a good victim...and out of body it is all telepathy all the time....seth------"Telepathy operates constantly. If you continually expect an individual to behave in a particular manner, then you are constantly sending him telepathic suggestions that he will do so. Each individual reacts to suggestion. According to the specific conditions existing at the time, such an individual will to some extent or another act according to the mass suggestions he receives.

These mass suggestions include not only those given to him by others, both verbally and telepathically, but also those he has given to himself, both in the waking and dream states. If an individual is in a state of despondency, this is because he has already become prey to negative suggestions of his own and others...

There are obviously ways in which you mold your own conditions, protect yourself from your own negative suggestions and those of others. You must learn to erase a negative thought or picture by replacing it with its opposite."
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:30 pm

Skeptic1001 wrote:One of the key factors within the operating system of a quantum computer is that you cannot observe the computational process because the machine ceases to compute when someone watches, thus failing to get a result.
Complete nonsense.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states you cannot measure the activities as you would collapse the quantum waveforms. As you need to to bounce photons off something to see it, that becomes a form of measurement. You can still observe the resulting calculation solutions form, as they are already collapsed.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:34 pm

gorgeous wrote: Seth and others have said we are all reading each other's minds all the time...
"Seth" is a fictional channeled alien, invented by science fiction author Jane Roberts, for her 1970's "New Age" commercial book series.

Can you explain why not one of "Seth's" predictions ever came true?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here is Jane channelling "Seth"

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:47 am

I can never make up my mind about gorgeous. Whether he, she, or it is a cynical troll, posting nonsense out of a nasty bent towards mischief, or whether he, she or it is simply a total moron.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Gord » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:05 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:47 am
I can never make up my mind about gorgeous. Whether he, she, or it is a cynical troll, posting nonsense out of a nasty bent towards mischief, or whether he, she or it is simply a total moron.
That may be a false dichotomy.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:57 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:47 am
I can never make up my mind about gorgeous. Whether he, she, or it is a cynical troll, posting nonsense out of a nasty bent towards mischief, or whether he, she or it is simply a total moron.
Senile, old person from Pasadena and former Seth cult Member from the 70s, who hates 70's cult busters ( Modern skeptics). His topics are all from that period. OOB, astral travelling, grey aliens, Roswell and so on.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:22 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:24 pm
Humm

I suspect that your understanding is limited. The observer effect does not mean you cannot watch a quantum computer in operation. It means nothing can interact with the quantum processing without influencing it. If you had a quantum computer and it was running a problem, you could watch it to your hearts content and not cause any problems. But in watching the computer, you are not influencing its operation.
I just knew that I wasn't wrong about what is called "the observer effect" in quantum science because I remember reading extensively about this. So, seeing as how scholarly and neat this message board is I decided to not be lazy and find a reputable source. Check it out.
Google wrote: Why does observation affect quantum particles?

In other words, when under observation, electrons are being "forced" to behave like particles and not like waves. Thus the mere act of observation affects the experimental findings. ... They then sent a current of electrons towards the barrier. The "observer" in this experiment wasn't human. Feb 27, 1998
Science Daily

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1 ... 055013.htm

REHOVOT, Israel, February 26, 1998--One of the most bizarre premises of quantum theory, which has long fascinated philosophers and physicists alike, states that by the very act of watching, the observer affects the observed reality.
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:24 pm
There are also misconceptions held by many people about quantum particles that are entangled. You cannot pass information action simultaneously using them. That is because you cannot control how they change.
Mine wasn't an expression of control factors, just describing the similarities within the operatives of quantum physics and everyday life.
gorgeous wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 10:47 pm
Seth and others have said we are all reading each other's minds all the time...how some know who will make a good victim...and out of body it is all telepathy all the time....seth------"Telepathy operates constantly. If you continually expect an individual to behave in a particular manner, then you are constantly sending him telepathic suggestions that he will do so. Each individual reacts to suggestion. According to the specific conditions existing at the time, such an individual will to some extent or another act according to the mass suggestions he receives.

These mass suggestions include not only those given to him by others, both verbally and telepathically, but also those he has given to himself, both in the waking and dream states. If an individual is in a state of despondency, this is because he has already become prey to negative suggestions of his own and others...

There are obviously ways in which you mold your own conditions, protect yourself from your own negative suggestions and those of others. You must learn to erase a negative thought or picture by replacing it with its opposite."
So you are saying that quantum operations and telepathy are related or perhaps one and the same within a brain?
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:30 pm
Skeptic1001 wrote:One of the key factors within the operating system of a quantum computer is that you cannot observe the computational process because the machine ceases to compute when someone watches, thus failing to get a result.
Complete nonsense.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle states you cannot measure the activities as you would collapse the quantum waveforms. As you need to to bounce photons off something to see it, that becomes a form of measurement. You can still observe the resulting calculation solutions form, as they are already collapsed.
I missed that detail about needing to fire particles to observe. Now that makes sense. I suppose that the reporters didn't know either or believed their audience already knew.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 11:34 pm
gorgeous wrote: Seth and others have said we are all reading each other's minds all the time...
"Seth" is a fictional channeled alien, invented by science fiction author Jane Roberts, for her 1970's "New Age" commercial book series.

Can you explain why not one of "Seth's" predictions ever came true?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Here is Jane channelling "Seth"
Funny.

She sounded like she was getting on to something with the whole "your random thoughts that don't fit are not your own" thing, but other than that she's a total quack. I laughed.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:50 am

About the observer effect from the act of watching.

Certainly, if the watching is of the actual quantum action. That implies light waves coming from the quantum phenomenon to the observers eyes. But that is not what you discussed. You talked of watching a computer. The action is not what you are watching. The action is quantum events well inside that computer, out of reach of your vision and the light waves.

A quantum event is of something very small, such as electrons, photons, atoms, or molecules. Such small things can be influenced and changed by a single light photon. To watch them requires something like photons going from the quantum event to the observer, and hence the observer changes what he or she is watching.

Kapiche ?

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by gorgeous » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:15 am

telepathy is mind to mind, not brain to brain...it is non-physical
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:11 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:15 am
telepathy is mind to mind, not brain to brain...it is non-physical
Except for the simple fact that there is no credible evidence that telepathy exists (the insane wanderings of inadequate minds do not count), and there ks no scientific mechanism known that could explain such a thing.

Telepathy is no more than delusional wish fulfillment.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:34 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:50 am
About the observer effect from the act of watching.

Certainly, if the watching is of the actual quantum action. That implies light waves coming from the quantum phenomenon to the observers eyes. But that is not what you discussed. You talked of watching a computer. The action is not what you are watching. The action is quantum events well inside that computer, out of reach of your vision and the light waves.

A quantum event is of something very small, such as electrons, photons, atoms, or molecules. Such small things can be influenced and changed by a single light photon. To watch them requires something like photons going from the quantum event to the observer, and hence the observer changes what he or she is watching.

Kapiche ?
And this change is due to the inherent properties of the quantum action entanglement, because even in reception the observer changes the computation.
gorgeous wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:15 am
telepathy is mind to mind, not brain to brain...it is non-physical
Perhaps within a broader sense wherein a telepathic network of harmonic frequencies holds ecosystems together guaranteeing interdependence with the animals and plants (squirrels planting trees, trees changing their sap to attract certain species), but for practicality we should presume we are discussing the mind to mind version that closely resembles audible speech.

My understanding of communication telepathy is that it is not linear like reading or normal human language. A mind to mind telepathy is received like a packet and the ideas are explored in the recipient like a three dimensional picture or recorded movie. There isn't much room for technical jargon within known telepathy types and one gets the impression of a toddler's mentality.

Of the kinds of telepathy known to humans the far most common form is male homosexuality. In this form of telepathy the male projects his thoughts and actions into another males mind and as mentioned before this can within some instances be used for control of the recipient. Through this form of telepathy has been invented the term "ghost" that we commonly hear being used today, to describe the feeling and impression a recipient gets when he is aware that the homosexual is trying to send him ideas or control him through this form of telepathy. One must be homosexual to send the message or command but everyone can receive regardless of their sexuality. This subject is taboo but I am scientific and daring enough to talk about it.

I know of two other forms of telepathy within humans that do not require one to be a homosexual male. These other forms are rare to say the least.

Telepathy also exist from specie to specie, the most commonly observed case being a family pet intuitively anticipating its owners return after a trip away from home.
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:11 pm
gorgeous wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:15 am
telepathy is mind to mind, not brain to brain...it is non-physical
Except for the simple fact that there is no credible evidence that telepathy exists (the insane wanderings of inadequate minds do not count), and there ks no scientific mechanism known that could explain such a thing.

Telepathy is no more than delusional wish fulfillment.
There is no publicly available credible evidence outside of Ed Dames and his project. In top secret government this subject is researched thoroughly and scientifically in several free countries including Scandinavia, the U.K., Russia, Germany and the U.S.A.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Nov 25, 2018 10:23 pm

Government research on telepathy stopped for the simple reason that it did not work. Numerous independent research groups have tried to make it work without success. The ones who claim to make it work cannot repeat their so called success when asked for demonstrations. Several skeptic groups have investigated and found there is no such thing.

Face it. Telepathy is delusion. It is something people fantasize about and imagine to be true. But when tested rigorously, it disappears real fast !

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 am

Skeptic1001 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:34 pm
...

My understanding of communication telepathy is that it is not linear like reading or normal human language. A mind to mind telepathy is received like a packet and the ideas are explored in the recipient like a three dimensional picture or recorded movie. There isn't much room for technical jargon within known telepathy types and one gets the impression of a toddler's mentality.

Of the kinds of telepathy known to humans the far most common form is male homosexuality. In this form of telepathy the male projects his thoughts and actions into another males mind and as mentioned before this can within some instances be used for control of the recipient. Through this form of telepathy has been invented the term "ghost" that we commonly hear being used today, to describe the feeling and impression a recipient gets when he is aware that the homosexual is trying to send him ideas or control him through this form of telepathy. One must be homosexual to send the message or command but everyone can receive regardless of their sexuality. This subject is taboo but I am scientific and daring enough to talk about it...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology)

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:11 pm

Telepathy is no more than delusional wish fulfillment.
Bingo.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by landrew » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:11 am

I'm sure that almost all of us have believed that our mother was telepathic at one time or another.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:37 am

Skeptic1001 wrote: There is no publicly available credible evidence outside of Ed Dames and his project. In top secret government this subject is researched thoroughly and scientifically in several free countries including Scandinavia, the U.K., Russia, Germany and the U.S.A.
Lance is right. The USA dropped ESP research as it simply did not work. In fact, the other embarrassment was that they were conned for a while by Uri Geller, which all came out over years and when the CIA declassified the files.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Russia's GRU (Signals) or the UK's CCHQ still research ESP. It simply doesn't work. It doesn't find missing aircraft, doesn't find foreign spies, doesn't find secret plans and so on.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 am
Intriguing article but I fail to see a relation between Psychological Mirroring and Mind Hacking Telepathy except that both psychology and telepathy aren't replicable sciences.
landrew wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:11 am
I'm sure that almost all of us have believed that our mother was telepathic at one time or another.
Intuitive. Emotional sensitivity and reading body language is a woman's specialty. Same with a healthy mother.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:37 am
Skeptic1001 wrote: There is no publicly available credible evidence outside of Ed Dames and his project. In top secret government this subject is researched thoroughly and scientifically in several free countries including Scandinavia, the U.K., Russia, Germany and the U.S.A.
Lance is right. The USA dropped ESP research as it simply did not work. In fact, the other embarrassment was that they were conned for a while by Uri Geller, which all came out over years and when the CIA declassified the files.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks Russia's GRU (Signals) or the UK's CCHQ still research ESP. It simply doesn't work. It doesn't find missing aircraft, doesn't find foreign spies, doesn't find secret plans and so on.
Their experiments weren't replicable but there is some evidence in the trials that a human mind is capable of small telepathic connections. It was like they could barely touch telepathy with the tips of their fingers but couldn't quite get their hands around a solid lead.

I would presume that telepathy in a brain would operate much like a radio signal or a satellite connection. In fact in a hundred years geneticists could likely engineer this ability with the help of computer modeling and test tube a few psychics.

I always wondered why this Ed Dames character was so freely given the opportunity to capitalize on secret government mind tech without much resistance. They believed the whole thing was junk. Good reason.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:48 pm

Skeptic1001 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 am
scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 am
Intriguing article but I fail to see a relation between Psychological Mirroring and Mind Hacking Telepathy except that both psychology and telepathy aren't replicable sciences.
Is that why you didn't bother to fully quote it?
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Poodle » Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:57 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 am
Skeptic1001 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:34 pm
...

My understanding of communication telepathy is that it is not linear like reading or normal human language. A mind to mind telepathy is received like a packet and the ideas are explored in the recipient like a three dimensional picture or recorded movie. There isn't much room for technical jargon within known telepathy types and one gets the impression of a toddler's mentality.

Of the kinds of telepathy known to humans the far most common form is male homosexuality. In this form of telepathy the male projects his thoughts and actions into another males mind and as mentioned before this can within some instances be used for control of the recipient. Through this form of telepathy has been invented the term "ghost" that we commonly hear being used today, to describe the feeling and impression a recipient gets when he is aware that the homosexual is trying to send him ideas or control him through this form of telepathy. One must be homosexual to send the message or command but everyone can receive regardless of their sexuality. This subject is taboo but I am scientific and daring enough to talk about it...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology)

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:11 pm

Telepathy is no more than delusional wish fulfillment.
Bingo.
I knew you'd say that.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by landrew » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:19 pm

Skeptic1001 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:11 am
I'm sure that almost all of us have believed that our mother was telepathic at one time or another.
Intuitive. Emotional sensitivity and reading body language is a woman's specialty. Same with a healthy mother.
Perhaps, but there are plenty of times when the evidence seems to defy those explanations.
Just sayin'.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:20 pm

The whole field of parapsychology is one where cherry picking of data and confirmation bias rear their very ugly heads, repeatedly. Where a researcher WANTS positive results, he or she tends to get them. A researcher without those preconceptions who tries to replicate those results cannot. This is a clear sign that there is nothing there.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by gorgeous » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm

psychic remote viewing has been replicated ...I've posted about it several times..pay attention...
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by landrew » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:30 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:20 pm
The whole field of parapsychology is one where cherry picking of data and confirmation bias rear their very ugly heads, repeatedly. Where a researcher WANTS positive results, he or she tends to get them. A researcher without those preconceptions who tries to replicate those results cannot. This is a clear sign that there is nothing there.
Makes you wonder how they managed to be funded by the government for so many years.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:53 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:20 pm
The whole field of parapsychology is one where cherry picking of data and confirmation bias rear their very ugly heads, repeatedly. Where a researcher WANTS positive results, he or she tends to get them. A researcher without those preconceptions who tries to replicate those results cannot. This is a clear sign that there is nothing there.
It seems that it sometimes seems there's a teensy weensy bit of "something". Usually useless.
http://skepdic.com/psi-conducive.html wrote:...the best that can be said is that there have been some telepathy experiments where senders or receivers have been in a state of reduced sensory input, such as the Maimonides dream telepathy experiments, which have shown some apparent success. However, that success has been met with some serious criticism (Hansel 1989; Hyman 1989; Marks 2000). It is possible that sensory deprived states are not psi-conducive states, but are high suggestibility or hallucination states. We know that sensory deprivation stimulates auditory and visual hallucinations...Perceptions under alleged psi-conducive conditions are better explained as being generated by the imagination or by the brain itself rather than by some external, psi-based, stimulus.

On the contrary, say Bem and Honorton, who write:
  • ...There are now reports of experimental evidence consistent with these anecdotal observations. For example, several laboratory investigators have reported that meditation facilitates psi performance (Honorton, 1977). A meta-analysis of 25 experiments on hypnosis and psi conducted between 1945 and 1981 in 10 different laboratories suggests that hypnotic induction may also facilitate psi performance (Schechter, 1984). And dream-mediated psi was reported in a series of experiments conducted at Maimonides Medical Center in New York and published between 1966 and 1972 (Child, 1985; Ullman, Krippner, &h; Vaughan, 1973). (Bem and Charles Honorton: 1994)...
...These experiments were done in such a way that ambiguous data could easily be retrofitted to support the telepathy hypothesis...
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:04 pm

http://skepdic.com/psiassumption.html wrote:"Parapsychologists have no positive theory or model of the phenomena they claim to be studying. What they call “psi” is defined and identified negatively. They claim having demonstrated the existence of “psi” whenever they obtain a statistically significant result which cannot be readily explained by mundane causes. This strategy has many undesirable problems from a scientific perspective. For one thing, it is impossible to discover every possible normal cause in a particular experiment. For another, this allows them to claim any departure from chance as evidence for psi." --Ray Hyman*
:heh:
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:12 pm

Very true, Mr. Eggs.

There is a problem with certain kinds of research , which is widely recognized by good scientists but carefully overlooked by those with an agenda. That problem is the fact that, if you do enough experiments, sooner or later you will get a false result that might suit your belief system better.

This was true recently for those who hate Monsanto and try to discredit the herbicide Glyphosate (Roundup). After literally hundreds of experimental attempts to prove the chemical caused cancer, some researchers found, at very high dose, it seemed to cause cancer in lab mice. That was enough for a jury to award massive damages to a groundsman who developed cancer after many years of using the chemical.* Total nonsense of course, but convincing to those, like gorgeous, who cannot think scientifically.

The same fallacy is used widely in parapsychology. If 100 experiments show no telepathy, but the 101st seems to be positive, then the results from number 101 are published.

*Monsanto will appeal, and hope for a rational jury this time.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:22 pm

Skeptic1001 wrote: Their experiments weren't replicable but there is some evidence in the trials that a human mind is capable of small telepathic connections.
Can you link me to the paper which states this?

A random good guess that can't be replicated is just a random good guess. That is how statistics and scientific conclusions work.

Skeptic1001 wrote:I always wondered why this Ed Dames character was ......
Edward Dames is a small time con-artist who makes money selling remote viewing training DVDs. He made a large number of predictions that never happened.

Edward Dames / 4 DVDS set for only $249.99
https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Remote-Vie ... B0007YWY8A

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:39 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:48 pm
Skeptic1001 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 am
scrmbldggs wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:32 am
Intriguing article but I fail to see a relation between Psychological Mirroring and Mind Hacking Telepathy except that both psychology and telepathy aren't replicable sciences.
Is that why you didn't bother to fully quote it?
No. I didn't want to quote that link for data recording reasons. Besides, the little arrows take you there.
landrew wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:19 pm
Skeptic1001 wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:15 am
landrew wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:11 am
I'm sure that almost all of us have believed that our mother was telepathic at one time or another.
Intuitive. Emotional sensitivity and reading body language is a woman's specialty. Same with a healthy mother.
Perhaps, but there are plenty of times when the evidence seems to defy those explanations.
Just sayin'.
In what manner does that evidence defy those explanations? Does this evidence prove or disprove telepathy?
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:20 pm
The whole field of parapsychology is one where cherry picking of data and confirmation bias rear their very ugly heads, repeatedly. Where a researcher WANTS positive results, he or she tends to get them. A researcher without those preconceptions who tries to replicate those results cannot. This is a clear sign that there is nothing there.
The job of most psychologists is partly just helping their patients feel better and make sure they return. Leading the patient on and finding tangents are great skills for psychologists to have. There aren't many cure-alls for mental illnesses, just periodic relief.
gorgeous wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
psychic remote viewing has been replicated ...I've posted about it several times..pay attention...
Ed Dames and his company seem like they got something valid within their efforts but I would take it all with a grain of salt and see the whole subject like a form of entertainment. People like this are the new storytellers, playing on our hunger for tall tales, mystery and imaginary fantasies.
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:12 pm
Very true, Mr. Eggs.

There is a problem with certain kinds of research , which is widely recognized by good scientists but carefully overlooked by those with an agenda. That problem is the fact that, if you do enough experiments, sooner or later you will get a false result that might suit your belief system better.
People want to believe. They want to be enchanted. They don't want to prove or disprove, only chatter. When you haul in the equipment and open the ledgers of fact they get quiet and walk away. They would rather hold on to their amazement at a lie than know the truth.
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:12 pm
The same fallacy is used widely in parapsychology. If 100 experiments show no telepathy, but the 101st seems to be positive, then the results from number 101 are published.
Science is great but great scientists are rare.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:22 pm
Skeptic1001 wrote: Their experiments weren't replicable but there is some evidence in the trials that a human mind is capable of small telepathic connections.
Can you link me to the paper which states this?

A random good guess that can't be replicated is just a random good guess. That is how statistics and scientific conclusions work.

Skeptic1001 wrote:I always wondered why this Ed Dames character was ......
Edward Dames is a small time con-artist who makes money selling remote viewing training DVDs. He made a large number of predictions that never happened.

Edward Dames / 4 DVDS set for only $249.99
https://www.amazon.com/Learn-Remote-Vie ... B0007YWY8A
Like you wrote, a large number of his predictions were wrong, but on the same token a few of his remote viewings were right on and the sort of things that he actually did hit right were near impossible to randomly guess. This makes a small percentage on accuracy but impressive when he does get it correct. I am not aware of scientific papers that state that telepathy is either replicable or not, I was pointing out that claimed telepaths that get lucky usually cannot replicate their results. If a psychic were truly skilled at premonition and had a control on his telepathy then he could replicate his telepathy on demand.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by landrew » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm

Ed Dames was involved with the Stargate Project for several decades, and it claimed several remote-viewing victories, but its Achilles heel was the lack of repeatability. I recall listening to a debate between Michael Shermer and one of the former RV team members, Russel Targ, but I can't remember where. Some of the one-time hits are easy to dismiss, but not so easy to explain.
As a tolerant skeptic, I'm always open to further evidence that remote-viewing works, but it hasn't been forthcoming, especially from Ed Dames, who apparently has never made an accurate prediction, even by chance, according to Russel Targ. Apparently he has some success as an RV teacher, because he seems to be keeping busy in that venue.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by OlegTheBatty » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm

gorgeous wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
psychic remote viewing has been replicated ...I've posted about it several times..pay attention...
Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:12 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm
]

Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
Yes, but it does result in the gullible believing a lie. Trump knows this. Hence his massive repeating of the phrase "crooked Hilary ".

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by landrew » Tue Nov 27, 2018 10:38 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:12 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm
]

Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
Yes, but it does result in the gullible believing a lie. Trump knows this. Hence his massive repeating of the phrase "crooked Hilary ".
Just like "premium fuel is better for your engine."
Except they don't have to tell that lie, people just keep repeating it to each other.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Cadmusteeth » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:52 pm

Or that Zicam makes you more likely to get over your cold sooner.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:34 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:12 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm
]

Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
Yes, but it does result in the gullible believing a lie. Trump knows this. Hence his massive repeating of the phrase "crooked Hilary ".
Funny thing that several of his catchy phrases (like so many things) aren't of his own making - the stapled genius even rejected them when Cambridge Analprobe offered them to him. (IIRC, that moronic wall thing was one of them...)
.
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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Gord » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:10 am

Quantum mechanics + telepathy + anti-homosexual nonsense.

I think this video belongs in this thread:



Man, that's a lot of bull!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE
Is Trump in jail yet?

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Skeptic1001 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:01 am

landrew wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:32 pm
Ed Dames was involved with the Stargate Project for several decades, and it claimed several remote-viewing victories, but its Achilles heel was the lack of repeatability. I recall listening to a debate between Michael Shermer and one of the former RV team members, Russel Targ, but I can't remember where. Some of the one-time hits are easy to dismiss, but not so easy to explain.
As a tolerant skeptic, I'm always open to further evidence that remote-viewing works, but it hasn't been forthcoming, especially from Ed Dames, who apparently has never made an accurate prediction, even by chance, according to Russel Targ. Apparently he has some success as an RV teacher, because he seems to be keeping busy in that venue.
That's right, the stargate project. I heard him on several occasions with the C2C:AM show years ago. Got an attitude, doom prophet, survivalist, obsessed with survivalism, teaching the gospel of MREs and bomb shelters.

Can you trust Russel Tag? Do you really think all of it is a scheme or is there anything of scientific value at all within their research?
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm
gorgeous wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
psychic remote viewing has been replicated ...I've posted about it several times..pay attention...
Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
They would need to repeat targets or use the same targets on new recruits. How difficult could that be?
Lance Kennedy wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:12 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:59 pm
]

Repeating the same claims over and over ad nauseum is not exactly what is meant by 'replicability'.
Yes, but it does result in the gullible believing a lie. Trump knows this. Hence his massive repeating of the phrase "crooked Hilary ".
Drain the swamp. Make America great again! Promiscuous porcupines!
Last edited by Skeptic1001 on Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:18 am

gorgeous wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:23 pm
psychic remote viewing has been replicated ...I've posted about it several times..pay attention...
Nope Gorgeous. You never did that at all. Was it in the same post where you explained why none of Seth the channeled alien's predictions ever came true? :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:53 am

Skeptic1001 wrote: Like you wrote, a large number of his predictions were wrong, but on the same token a few of his remote viewings were right on and the sort of things that he actually did hit right were near impossible to randomly guess.
Where are you getting this information, that he had any correct hits, from?
Skeptic1001 wrote: I am not aware of scientific papers that state that telepathy is either replicable or not,
There are no scientific papers saying telepathy is real or that any experiment had replicated experiments.

The people who make it appear that ESP is real are stage magicians. That's why other stage magicians like James Randi, Penn & Teller, Harry Houdini and Johnny Carson debunked these con artists.

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Re: The Connection of Quantum Mechanics and Privacy

Post by gorgeous » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:05 pm

here is duplication of remote viewing...-------- NSA Stargate remote viewing file ----PSYCHOENERGETICS RESEARCH
DEFENSE INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
DIRECTORATE FOR SCIENTIFIC AND TECHNICAL INTELLIGENCE
7 August 1984 - 2.00MB (pdf file)


Key highlights from the document are:
------- Psychoenergetics has its place somewhere between psychology and the other social sciences. It has not been reduced to mathematics and there is no physical model, but psychoenergetics does have many characteristics that are common to all science.

The first of these characteristics is replication. If an area of endeavor is to be considered a science, experiments must be replicable. When the results obtained in one laboratory cannot be obtained under the same experimental conditions in other laboratories, the work will be neglected and will be considered to fall outside the parameters of science.

The work in psychoenergetics at SRI has been replicated by several laboratories:
~ Remote Viewing (ESP)
- Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
- Institute for Parapsychology, Durham, NC
- Mundelein College, Chicago, IL
- University of California at Davis, CA
~ Remote Action (psychokinesis)
- Princeton University, Princeton, NJ
- Mind Science Foundation, San Antonio, TX
- Maimonides Medical Center, Brooklyn, NY
- Psychophysical Research Laboratory, Princeton, NJ
- Syracuse University, Syracuse, NY
- Bell Laboratories, Columbus, OH.

These are all bonafide scientific research and development institutes. In all, there have been 28 formal published replications of the remote viewing work at SRI. Obviously, this phenomenon is not an invention of SRI; it has been duplicated on a number of occasions.


[page 11]
Finally, the ongoing psychoenergetics program at SRI has recently been reviewed by a panel of renowned scientists (see Exhibit 9). Much of what they reported will be covered later in this publication. At this time, we wish to include one quote taken from the publication they prepared regarding their findings on the SRI psychoenergetic research; it bears directly on the question of whether or not psychoenergetics should be considered a science. "The lack of a physical model should not be taken to preclude the existence of the capability to view remote locations."


[page22] onwards:

The CIA was the first organization to fund research. Their program established that:
~ Geographical features can be ascertained with remote viewing.
~ Descriptive aspects of a site are better described than analytical aspects.
~ Operationally-useful information can be obtained.
~ Coordinate and beacon remote viewing can be successful.
~ Standard medical/physiological/psychologicaI screening is not useful.

In 1975, Navelex supported a $74K program which established that physiological correlates to remote viewing exist, but they are weak statistically. From 1976 to 1979, the Air Force supported research that demonstrated;
~ Remote viewing can be used to monitor real-time activities.
~ Accuracy and resolution are not a function of distance.
~ Spatial resolution is accurate down to millimeters.
~ Electrical shielding does not block remote viewing.

MIA was the next organization to enter the research. They supported work that verified that interaction with sensitive electronic equipment can result in significant perturbations from expected behavior.

In AMSAA's program, from 1978 to 1980, it.was proven that site descriptions are of higher quality than location-pinpointing or tracking information.

The DIA was the next agency to contract work in psychoenergetics at SRI. Their program:
~ Developed techniques to increase reliability by minimizing noise
~ Produced operational examples that were of high quality
~ Developed a reliability improvement program.
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