100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

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100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:11 am

William Guy gave an outstanding presentation, and while he gave many decent points for proof of the shroud, these six were the best (in my opinion)

1) Joseph Kohlberg, a geologist, actually studied some of the remnants of the shroud and found limestone. Later, it was found that this limestone was common in Israeli tombs, but not just any Israeli tombs, Jerusalem tombs. Therefore, if it was not real, how could the shroud have some remnants from Jerusalem tombs?

2) Guy researched crucifixion history, and found that while the Persians invented it, the Romans perfected it. It can be seen in the shroud itself that there were thorns in this individual's head, which was never used before in Roman or Persian killings, therefore, it strongly hints it was actually Jesus

3) The shroud accurately depicts the nails going through the wrists of the individual for crucifixion. In many middle aged drawings, Jesus is depicted as having the nails go through hands, and this is scientifically impossible. Therefore, it couldn't have been a forgery

4) the shroud was measured in cubic units, something they didn't do in the middle ages, but did in ancient Palestine or Israel

5) plants and pollen examined on it were found to also be native to Palestine/Israel

6) the blood examined on the shroud had some chemical compounds in it that a person's blood would have under extreme stress, which is what Jesus would have gone through, and a forgery would not have had that.

therefore, it has to be Jesus, how can it not be? The thorns, the Jerusalem limestones, the blood, the plants/pollen

How does it feel to know it is true lads?

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Mara » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:20 am

oh, I have already known that the story of Jesus had to be true because of this incredible REAL NEWS RIGHT NOW article... http://realnewsrightnow.com/2017/02/nev ... us-christ/ ;-) (btw I am condescending as fu*k RIGHT NOW)

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:31 am

Mara wrote:oh, I have already known that the story of Jesus had to be true because of this incredible REAL NEWS RIGHT NOW article... http://realnewsrightnow.com/2017/02/nev ... us-christ/ ;-) (btw I am condescending as fu*k RIGHT NOW)
you never addressed my question, probably because you can't

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Mara » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:49 am

Kamil wrote:
Mara wrote:oh, I have already known that the story of Jesus had to be true because of this incredible REAL NEWS RIGHT NOW article... http://realnewsrightnow.com/2017/02/nev ... us-christ/ ;-) (btw I am condescending as fu*k RIGHT NOW)
you never addressed my question, probably because you can't
You are right, I can't. I can't believe anyone would even put a question like this together and think it's valid in anyway....It is really disheartening. Are you living in a developed nation?

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Poodle » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 am

Fascinating.
WTF is a cubic unit in the context of the shroud?
WhoTF is Joseph Kohlberg? The geological world appears not to know who he is.
I'll stop there for the time being.
(End 'fascinating')

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Mara » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:22 am

Oh yes, and you know what? - this part is even more FASCINATING:
Kamil wrote: therefore, it has to be Jesus, how can it not be? The thorns, the Jerusalem limestones, the blood, the plants/pollen
Do you (Kamil) always arrive at conclusions this way? I am curious about your survival skills...you know, in the real world. Are you supported by others?

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:38 am

I haven't read a checkmate yet that sounds like it comes from anyone that can even play checkers. What else could it be but something made to look like it does?
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Aztexan » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:42 pm

Why sit there and have your thread debunked when you can just start a new one to continue your failed arguments?
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:58 pm

Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:01 pm

Insert "Yeah, but" here.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:27 pm

Granting for the sake of argument absolutely everything of the OP (which is total BS),

all it would be evidence of is some person who died a while ago. No indication of divinity, and we know that crucification was a common punishment.

Seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that you could detect stress hormones in an exposed blood sample 2000 years old? And how is any death not stressful?

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:39 pm

ElectricMonk wrote: Seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that you could detect stress hormones in an exposed blood sample 2000 years old? And how is any death not stressful?
Death by snu snu?
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:45 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote: Seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that you could detect stress hormones in an exposed blood sample 2000 years old? And how is any death not stressful?
Death by snu snu?
If that is not stressful, you are doing it wrong.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:52 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote: Seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that you could detect stress hormones in an exposed blood sample 2000 years old? And how is any death not stressful?
Death by snu snu?
If that is not stressful, you are doing it wrong.
There's stress and then there's stress.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:50 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Granting for the sake of argument absolutely everything of the OP (which is total BS),

all it would be evidence of is some person who died a while ago. No indication of divinity, and we know that crucification was a common punishment.

Seriously, how naive do you have to be to believe that you could detect stress hormones in an exposed blood sample 2000 years old? And how is any death not stressful?
Look it up. It is published.

Look at all this I picked up from a laddy:

"I understand that most of you will be quick to point out that the C-14 tests conducted on the Shroud placed it around the 14th Century. Here are academic papers explaining why those tests are invalid, and that the Shroud is in fact much older http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF (the paper above is the most important) http://shroud.com/pdfs/addendum.pdf http://shroudofturin.files.wordpress.co ... -fanti.pdf http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/brown1.pdf

"It can't be Christ's burial cloth - the Bible claims He was wrapped in 2 separate pieces" Please read the following: http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.es ... blood.html http://www.garyhabermas.com/articles/J_ ... icance.htm

"I read somewhere that the image on the shroud is completely wrong from an anatomical perspective" Nope http://www.shroud.com/bucklin.htm http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/marineli.pdf

"It's a scorch mark" Nope http://shroudofturin.files.wordpress.co ... per-en.pdf

"It contains red ochre, a pigment used for making red dye. Therefore, fake" Nope The following papers dealt with this issue 6. Heller, J.H. and A.D. Adler, "Blood on the Shroud of Turin," Applied Optics, Vol. 19, No. 16, 1980, pp. 2742-2744. 7. Heller, J.H. and A.D. Adler, "A Chemical Investigation of the Shroud of Turin," Canadian Society of Forensic Sciences Journal, Vol. 14, No. 3, 1981, pp. 81-103. Check out the following too: http://shroudstory.com/fact-check/

"No human blood was found on the shroud" False http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/kearse1.pdf

"Why is the blood on the shroud bright red, and not dark, as would be expected of ancient blood?" http://www.ohioshroudconference.com/papers/p04.pdf

"Well... it's just an old burial cloth, there's nothing particularly fascinating or mysterious about it!" http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf (nuclear imaging on the shroud) http://shroud.com/pdfs/whanger.pdf http://opac.bologna.enea.it:8991/RT/201 ... 6_ENEA.pdf http://www.realscience.us/2011/12/23/sc ... snt-faked/ http://theshroudofturin.blogspot.com.es ... ional.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/scien ... 79512.html

From the above, we can deduce without dispute that: - The image on the shroud contains 3d and holographic information. - The image on the shroud has soft xray emissions of some kind on the hands and parts of the skull. - The image DOES NOT date back to the 13th century - No forger, medieval or ancient, could have gone to such incredible lengths to make such a relic http://shroud2000.com/Introduction.html

*Please read the links before jumping to conclusions * "I can't be bothered reading any of the links. Instead, I'll comment on another video of Bill O'Reilly being retarded and attributing his God of the Gaps mentality to 'intellectual laziness' and await the slew of upvotes" The information is there. Whether or not you choose to expose yourself to it is up to you, but ignoring it does not make it untrue

(For a bibliography of Shroud of Turin Research Project published peer-reviewed papers: http://shroud.com/78papers.htm )

Travertine aragonite was found on the shroud, an element found in ancient Jerusalem tombs http://creationevolutiondesign.blogspot ... et-of.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin 'Joseph Kohlbeck from the Hercules Aerospace Company in Utah and Richard Levi-Setti of the Enrico Fermi Institute examined some dirt particles from the Shroud surface. The dirt was found to be travertine aragonite limestone' Is this indisputable proof that the shroud itself is from Jerusalem? No. However, is it likely that a medieval forger would have added such details? Of course not."


So, please, tell me who is BSing!

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Monster » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:53 pm

Kamil wrote:checkmate atheists
Whoa! I mean, wow! Holy moley! That right there is all I needed to read. You said "checkmate atheists". Wow, that means I'm defeated. I give up. You beat me. I'm sad now.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:03 pm

Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first bya theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:19 pm

Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:25 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.

Which is where Kohlbeck comes in. He is a geologist. I think it proves it well

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:28 pm

Even if any or all what's claimed was true, it would simply show where the stressful forgery originated.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:38 pm

Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.

Which is where Kohlbeck comes in. He is a geologist. I think it proves it well
My mistake, I forgot from your first post that he was a geologist. I was thinking they were both theologians. However, this still doesn't prove anything beyond the the limestone being a match for limestone around Jerusalem. I find it hard to believe that the chemistry of the limestone around Jerusalem is so special that it could be differentiated from every other limestone deposit on the planet. It also still doesn't explain why the shapes on the shroud don't match the shape a face would make on it by wrapping (and not a linear projection). Nor does it address why it is radiocarbon dated to the 14th Century. I also object to your claim that the shroud was measured in cubits. How do you know what measurement system was used? Anything can be measured in cubits, inches, miles, angstroms, or whatever. Having pollen from Israel just means that the cloth at some point was in Israel or was near or in contact with another object or person that had been in Israel. The blood claims have already been objected to by ElectricMonk.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:46 pm

Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.

Which is where Kohlbeck comes in. He is a geologist. I think it proves it well
My mistake, I forgot from your first post that he was a geologist. I was thinking they were both theologians. However, this still doesn't prove anything beyond the the limestone being a match for limestone around Jerusalem. I find it hard to believe that the chemistry of the limestone around Jerusalem is so special that it could be differentiated from every other limestone deposit on the planet. It also still doesn't explain why the shapes on the shroud don't match the shape a face would make on it by wrapping (and not a linear projection). Nor does it address why it is radiocarbon dated to the 14th Century. I also object to your claim that the shroud was measured in cubits. How do you know what measurement system was used? Anything can be measured in cubits, inches, miles, angstroms, or whatever. Having pollen from Israel just means that the cloth at some point was in Israel or was near or in contact with another object or person that had been in Israel. The blood claims have already been objected to by ElectricMonk.

This video by Dr. William Guy has all the info

https://youtu.be/H0JBberCqw4

He really proves it quite well just even watch like 10 min of it anywhere and there are many good points

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Austin Harper » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:54 pm

I'm not going to watch 100 minutes of a video. If you think they prove the point, explain how. If he gives any sources in his talk, please provide those citations. If it's just some guy nobody's heard of making claims on a stage, that's not evidence of anything.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Poodle » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:56 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first bya theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
"Well there's yer problem."
I was just about to comment on that. It does stick out like a sore thumb. Kamil, would you like to have a go at the reason a theology student examined the limestone before the geologist? What was he hoping to do, apart from completely invalidate anything coming afterwards? Was he drunk or stoned?

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 09, 2018 6:58 pm

Considering his chosen field of study, it could be he was quite... stressed.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:25 pm

Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.

Which is where Kohlbeck comes in. He is a geologist. I think it proves it well
And he wasn't at all biased when he did those tests, of course.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:45 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Let's for a moment assume that there really is limestone residue on the shroud. So what? Limestone is common the world over.
no, the limestone tested matched limestone found in jerusalem tombs, not even tombs across Israel, just Jerusalem. It was tested twice, first by a theology scholar and then by Joe Kohlbeck. How could it match Jerusalem tombs and not Haifa tombs or Bethlehem tombs you ask? Because the cloth was in Jerusalem at that time. It proves it was Jesus, as he wore the crown of thorns, no other ever did during crucifixion
I would suggest that maybe a geologist is better suited to test rocks than a theologian.

Which is where Kohlbeck comes in. He is a geologist. I think it proves it well
And he wasn't at all biased when he did those tests, of course.
Of course not - but he WAS humming "Rock Of Ages".
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:01 pm

OP, you have an extremely low threshold.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:39 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:OP, you have an extremely low threshold.
Ok, Ok, then explain the Sudarium of Oviedo! The blood stains and face match the shroud! They are in different countries. I can't put that away.

Blood type both AB, blood in the same places of head and neck, dimensions of the face through 3D imaging the same.

It just seems highly unlikely that all this stuff was forged and with such consistency. I will concede that even if these are real they do not prove Jesus rose from the dead, but they do make everything interesting. It could prove that Jesus existed, as many on here are quite convinced that he didn't. Also, if this is the case, seems strange all these witnesses would have claimed he was raised from the dead. The shroud also doesn't have an explanation for how it could have been created so perfectly with such 3D detail that an,xray machine could examine. Paintings do not have these 3d capabilities. So therefore, at the very least, I think it is safe to say it wasn't a forgery, and the individual may have been Jesus due to the crown of thorns on the head, israeli limestone and plants, and consistency with the Sudarium. Very unlikely to have been a painting.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:41 pm

Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:OP, you have an extremely low threshold.
Ok, Ok, then explain the Sudarium of Oviedo! The blood stains and face match the shroud! They are in different countries. I can't put that away.

Blood type both AB, blood in the same places of head and neck, dimensions of the face through 3D imaging the same.

It just seems highly unlikely that all this stuff was forged and with such consistency. I will concede that even if these are real they do not prove Jesus rose from the dead, but they do make everything interesting. It could prove that Jesus existed, as many on here are quite convinced that he didn't. Also, if this is the case, seems strange all these witnesses would have claimed he was raised from the dead. The shroud also doesn't have an explanation for how it could have been created so perfectly with such 3D detail that an,xray machine could examine. Paintings do not have these 3d capabilities. So therefore, at the very least, I think it is safe to say it wasn't a forgery, and the individual may have been Jesus due to the crown of thorns on the head, israeli limestone and plants, and consistency with the Sudarium. Very unlikely to have been a painting.
You don't like the idea that it was forged, so you make it "highly unlikely".
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:51 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:OP, you have an extremely low threshold.
Ok, Ok, then explain the Sudarium of Oviedo! The blood stains and face match the shroud! They are in different countries. I can't put that away.

Blood type both AB, blood in the same places of head and neck, dimensions of the face through 3D imaging the same.

It just seems highly unlikely that all this stuff was forged and with such consistency. I will concede that even if these are real they do not prove Jesus rose from the dead, but they do make everything interesting. It could prove that Jesus existed, as many on here are quite convinced that he didn't. Also, if this is the case, seems strange all these witnesses would have claimed he was raised from the dead. The shroud also doesn't have an explanation for how it could have been created so perfectly with such 3D detail that an,xray machine could examine. Paintings do not have these 3d capabilities. So therefore, at the very least, I think it is safe to say it wasn't a forgery, and the individual may have been Jesus due to the crown of thorns on the head, israeli limestone and plants, and consistency with the Sudarium. Very unlikely to have been a painting.
You don't like the idea that it was forged, so you make it "highly unlikely".

Ok, explain why it is a match between sundarium and shroud. You can place the two images on top of each other and find they match. Wounds in the same places.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by ElectricMonk » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:52 pm

Even if you could date the cloth to the exact date and place,you still wouldn't know who it came from.
Even the Bible says that Jesus wasn't crucified alone.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Kamil » Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:59 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:Even if you could date the cloth to the exact date and place,you still wouldn't know who it came from.
Even the Bible says that Jesus wasn't crucified alone.
@Electric Monk,

Jesus was the only one who wore the thorn crown, and we can see it in the cloth. It was likely him.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:16 pm

You're using the Bible to prove the Bible. You don't have a threshold, never mind a low one.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by scrmbldggs » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:28 pm

If thorns show, why not the ton of other plants/spices the body was supposedly wrapped with?
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:32 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:If thorns show, why not the ton of other plants/spices the body was supposedly wrapped with?
Because they only put thorns in the Chick tracts.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Dubious » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:33 pm

Supposing, very hypothetically, it was Jesus, so now what? Just another human among many the Romans crucified. If Jesus = shroud "proves" one thing it was that the most fundamental event in Christianity didn't happen...the Resurrection and Jesus goes from god to nonentity in the sense that all of Christianity is fake.

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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:03 am

Dubious wrote:Supposing, very hypothetically, it was Jesus, so now what? Just another human among many the Romans crucified. If Jesus = shroud "proves" one thing it was that the most fundamental event in Christianity didn't happen...the Resurrection and Jesus goes from god to nonentity in the sense that all of Christianity is fake.
Eh? Do you mean that the shroud shows someone died, but not that the someone was the Son of God?

Even more puzzling is why he couldn't read or write.
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Re: 100% convincing, further proof of Jesus through the shroud checkmate atheists

Post by Monster » Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:07 am

Are we all just going to ignore that Kamil said "checkmate"? I mean DAMN, that's powerful stuff. It means he wins by default.
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