Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

How should we think about weird things?
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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Nikki Nyx » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:54 pm

And again, your hypocrisy is revealed...
placid wrote:I'd liked this to be a serious honest and open minded discussion please...no name calling trolls. Just honest mature discussion please.
placid also wrote:ignorance is your original face
• Takes one to know one fool. Suck up your own {!#%@} you coward, stop spitting it at me.
• No you are not you are responding to some words on a computer screen fool.
• You are just saying the obvious over and over and over again fool.
• I am just observing the madness that is the human mind, and your the biggest star of the show
• You are the king of clowns in this human circus we call earth
• The ego is a sadistic little monkey, it refuses to die to the idea it's separate from the whole ..no doubt it'll be back as soon as I get off to bed...just so it can get in the last word because it's that insecure about itself, it has to constantly validate it's existence by trying to prove it self as the knower
you wont even understand them so what's the use anyway
• You are so hopelessly hung up on the religion word conditioned into your mind by your culture through eons and eons of years, that you adamantly believe it is a real thing... without ever using your own intelligence to figure out that it's nothing more than an imagined concept no one made up
• Okay dear sheeple
Seriously, go step on a Lego.
"An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary proof."—Marcello Truzzi

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."—Christopher Hitchens

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Monster » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:58 pm

placid wrote:If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it, to whom does the gift belong?
It still belongs to the person who was going to give it to you.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:14 pm

L-ego wrote:A machine no matter how complex cannot know its maker.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:23 pm

Sorry - I had to go and watch a TV proggy about English beavers. I kid you not! How have we done? Has regular interaction been established or are the target species still hiding in the rush beds?

EDIT: Aha! - a little interaction, I see. This is improvement. At least we know now what the natural habitat of the indigenous confyplacid looks like, But I feel we're merely attracting the lesser spotted confyplacid. The greater spotted version has displayed the natural craftiness of the wild survivor and played little, if any part in this safari. I must work more on its mating habits and discover if that is where we shall find their more arcane behaviour.

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Re: Placid : The world's most confused Hippy

Post by Confidencia » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:09 pm

placid wrote:
Confidencia wrote:But regurgitating intellectual information is not intelligence.
I'm only replying to real intelligence.

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:lol: :lol: :lol: classic!

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Aztexan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:40 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Aztexan wrote:What was never heard was never spoken

Humanity is the canvas and space is the artist and time is the brush that brings it to life

To gaze into the skies is to look inward and see emptiness
The fourth quote is the best one, although it only exists as potential at the moment. Will you fulfill your destiny and post the fourth quote? Or will you exert your free will and refuse to comply with fate?
You're scaring me
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Placid : The world's most confused Hippy

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:41 pm

Confidencia wrote: There is no such thing as an electron. Everything is a construct of the mind.
Ten people, with ten hand calculators with small printers, all go to separate locations. They open ten envelopes, each containing the same very complex maths problem. The ten humans then enter the figures, print the result and meet, They all have the same answer printed out.

This destroys Placid and Confidencia's entire religious framework.

Firstly, if there were no electrons performing the calculations, the "observers" would have to make up the resulting answers in their heads, yet they all have the same answer.

Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.

Thirdly the ten people can enter their figures at different times and show the results later meaning it does not have to be a simultaneously shared conscious experience as claimed by Placid and Confidencia's stone age Advaita Vedanta religion,

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Confidencia » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:46 pm

Poodle wrote:Sorry - I had to go and watch a TV proggy about English beavers. I kid you not! How have we done? Has regular interaction been established or are the target species still hiding in the rush beds?

EDIT: Aha! - a little interaction, I see. This is improvement. At least we know now what the natural habitat of the indigenous confyplacid looks like, But I feel we're merely attracting the lesser spotted confyplacid. The greater spotted version has displayed the natural craftiness of the wild survivor and played little, if any part in this safari. I must work more on its mating habits and discover if that is where we shall find their more arcane behaviour.
Just resting under the tree poodle whilst you bring me some food for thought.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Aztexan » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:55 pm

Maybe you shouldn't eat what with your habit of regurgitating word salads and all :P
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Re: Placid : The world's most confused Hippy

Post by Confidencia » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:16 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote: There is no such thing as an electron. Everything is a construct of the mind.
Ten people, with ten hand calculators with small printers, all go to separate locations. They open ten envelopes, each containing the same very complex maths problem. The ten humans then enter the figures, print the result and meet, They all have the same answer printed out.


And all this take place in the consciousness.

This destroys Placid and Confidencia's entire religious framework.


Truth does not have a framework. You have destroyed nothing.

Firstly, if there were no electrons performing the calculations, the "observers" would have to make up the resulting answers in their heads, yet they all have the same answer.


Because they all have the same consciousness.

Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.


No that's why the calculations are made in consciousness

Thirdly the ten people can enter their figures at different times and show the results later meaning it does not have to be a simultaneously shared conscious experience as claimed by Placid and Confidencia's stone age Advaita Vedanta religion,
Yes because consciousness is here and everywhere and for all times.

Perhaps if you did some thinking for yourself you might understand :mrgreen:

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Adviata Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:33 pm

Ten people, with ten hand calculators with small printers, all go to separate locations. They open ten envelopes, each containing the same very complex maths problem. The ten humans then enter the figures, print the result and meet, They all have the same answer printed out.
Confidencia wrote: And all this take place in the consciousness.
No. They are ten different people. Whose consciousness do you pretend they exist in? Yours? The cats? Placid's :lol:

This destroys Placid and Confidencia's entire religious framework.
Firstly, if there were no electrons performing the calculations, the "observers" would have to make up the resulting answers in their heads, yet they all have the same answer.
Confidencia wrote: Because they all have the same consciousness.
No. They all have the same correct answer to a complex maths question. If they all just made up the resulting answer in their shared minds it wouldn't be correct. Yet that never happens. QED your religion is debunked. :D

Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.
Confidencia wrote:No that's why the calculations are made in consciousness
That is nonsensical gibberish. Either the answer is correct or it isn't. You are pretending an incorrect answer could be imagined as correct, but then no calculator in the world would ever need to be correct. Yet in reality calculators always give the same correct answer. QED your religion is debunked. :D

Well that debunks another another stupid religious claim on the Skeptic Society forum. :D

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Re: Human Brain Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 6:31 am

Matthew Nobody wrote:
Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.

Either the answer is correct or it isn't. You are pretending an incorrect answer could be imagined as correct, but then no calculator in the world would ever need to be correct. Yet in reality calculators always give the same correct answer.
Firstly, that's because there is no such thing as a human brain.

Secondly, calculators can't display anything without there first being a programmer instructing the calculator to do it's job.

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Re: Human Brain Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.
placid wrote:Firstly, that's because there is no such thing as a human brain.
That would be you Placid. Everyone else reading this thinks they have brains.....and then read your posts and realise some people are just unlucky.

My sympathy to your parents. Did they dump you somewhere? :lol:

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Re: Human Brain Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:23 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.
placid wrote:Firstly, that's because there is no such thing as a human brain.
That would be you Placid. Everyone else reading this thinks they have brains.....and then read your posts and realise some people are just unlucky.

My sympathy to your parents. Did they dump you somewhere? :lol:
Just answer the question.

If placid is the programmer, the program display is dependant on me, without me then there is no electrons doing anything..is that right?

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Re: Human Brain Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:28 am

placid wrote: Just answer the question.
You didn't ask a question. [/quote]
placid wrote: Hitler executing the jews was an act of love,
placid wrote:So what?
Well you are a pro National Socialist who loves Adolf Hitler and hates Jews.

You deleted all you pro Nazi and Adolf Hitler posts. Can you explain why you did that?


Placid deletes all his anti Jewish posts
http://www.skepticforum.com/search.php? ... &start=800
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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:38 am

As we can see ladies and gentlemen watching this thread..

Matt cannot answer the question here ..if you can, then please show?
If placid is the programmer, the program display is dependant on me, without me then there is no electrons doing anything..is that right?
Still waiting Matt, I've got all of eternity.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:47 am

placid wrote:As we can see ladies and gentlemen watching this thread.. Matt cannot answer the question here .
You haven't asked any question you complete idiot. :lol:

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:49 am

Actually ... about as wrong as you can be, placid. My computers are all whirring away merrily not running a single one of your programs. You are, once again, becoming confused between reality and insanity. And it's much earlier in the morning than you normally start showing such blatant symptoms.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:57 am

placid wrote:As we can see ladies and gentlemen watching this thread..

Matt cannot answer the question here ..if you can, then please show?
If placid is the programmer, the program display is dependant on me, without me then there is no electrons doing anything..is that right?
Still waiting Matt, I've got all of eternity.

If placid is the programmer, then I also must be the program...that means that placid is also the electron inside the computer...

Do you see how we cannot be the concept...and that placid is just a concept?

Can you see it from this context?

How can the programmer be separate from the programme it itself has created?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:09 am

placid wrote:If placid is the programmer, then I also must be the program...that means that placid is also the electron inside the computer...
Does not follow at all. That's like "If I am the shitter I am also the {!#%@}" which is true only in a small number of cases
placid wrote:Do you see how we cannot be the concept...and that placid is just a concept?
Can a concept type? Oh - I see. It's an early Lennonist reversal. No - it didn't work for him either.
placid wrote:Can you see it from this context?
What context? Context usually means something.
placid wrote:How can the programmer be separate from the programme it itself has created?
In precisely the same way that you and your post are separate. (Oh yes you are). See, I'm reading your post in my house. There's no way you'd get through the door. That's separate for you.
It's a bit of a bugger, this reality stuff, ain't it?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:13 am

We're not talking about duality poo..any tom dick and harry can know that subject albeit illusory.

We're talking about non-duality...

Still waiting for your answer Matt?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:23 am

Well, I haven't used either term at all today so that's a bit of a non sequitur - but whatever floats your boat. I do drop the occasional error of terminology. Even so, what you were actually talking about was identity. So why don't you stretch your little pea-like and attempt to respond to my observations and questions. It's not as if you have any choice - you are the responder as well as the response. How could it be otherwise?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:28 am

Terminology is a human invention it is that on which you build your personal model of reality.

A lot different to what reality actually is.

You see, reality as it actually is ...is as silent as silent can be. I've never heard of a talking sky have you?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:31 am

Adolf placid wrote:Terminology is a human invention.
So an human English word is a human invention? Amazing! :lol:

Are you now saying you can't speak English or you aren't human?
:lol:

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:45 am

placid wrote:Terminology is a human invention it is that on which you build your personal model of reality.

A lot different to what reality actually is.

You see, reality as it actually is ...is as silent as silent can be. I've never heard of a talking sky have you?
Well, well - probably the most succinct denial of non-dualist tenets I've ever seen in my life. Well done, placid, and welcome back to the real universe. Now you can concentrate on getting better.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:48 am

Yes, that's it, poo...I like to discuss real stuff not lies.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:50 am

Reality for a human being is modelled on a lie, an assumption. I like to talk about what's actually real..the reality beyond illusory human language..sorry if that pisses you off poo.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:00 am

It doesn't piss me off at all, placid. It worries me. I worry for you. You see, at this very moment (that one - did you see it?) you are espousing two diametrically opposed viewpoints on this forum. There are some options ...
a) You're simply an idiot with a penchant for being roasted when completely out of your intellectual depth.
b) You have a severe psychiatric problem and need medical intervention ASAP.
c) You're a blatant liar.
I think I know which of the above is the case in fact, but then that's just my opinion. What is NOT a matter of opinion is that one of the three cases must be true, as you have proved in your last few posts.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:07 am

Like I said, sidekicks waste my energy.

Go and do your own nobody homework, your a closed book.

If you really do worry about me, then do one thing for me that will help me get better, piss off and stop talking to me okay?

Can you do that? or are you just pretending you worry about me?

Please ..if you return to reply to me once more, I will know for sure, you have not respected my wish for to you to stop talking to me, and I'll know for real that you were lying when you said you worry for me.

Goodbye,

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Re: Placid : The world's most confused Hippy

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:10 am

Confidencia wrote:
placid wrote:
Confidencia wrote:But regurgitating intellectual information is not intelligence.
I'm only replying to real intelligence.

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol: classic!

Oh I know.. :o .. isn't it fun being a smart ass :lol: :lol: :lol:

These other dumb pot heads have no clue as to where to point their guns.. :lol: :lol: 8-) 8-) :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:18 am

placid wrote:Like I said, sidekicks waste my energy.

Go and do your own nobody homework, your a closed book.

If you really do worry about me, then do one thing for me that will help me get better, piss off and stop talking to me okay?

Can you do that? or are you just pretending you worry about me?

Please ..if you return to reply to me once more, I will know for sure, you have not respected my wish for to you to stop talking to me, and I'll know for real that you were lying when you said you worry for me.

Goodbye,
In other words, you'll kick and thcweam and take your ball home. You don't get to define my actions for me, placid. But acknowledging that there is something wrong, even in the way you just did it, is a good start. Congratulations. Now you need to find those contradictions and do something about them.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 10:51 am

Poodle wrote:
placid wrote:Like I said, sidekicks waste my energy.

Go and do your own nobody homework, your a closed book.

If you really do worry about me, then do one thing for me that will help me get better, piss off and stop talking to me okay?

Can you do that? or are you just pretending you worry about me?

Please ..if you return to reply to me once more, I will know for sure, you have not respected my wish for to you to stop talking to me, and I'll know for real that you were lying when you said you worry for me.

Goodbye,
In other words, you'll kick and thcweam and take your ball home. You don't get to define my actions for me, placid. But acknowledging that there is something wrong, even in the way you just did it, is a good start. Congratulations. Now you need to find those contradictions and do something about them.
Thanks for proving you are a liar.

The truth is always right.

And the truth will set you free.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 11:03 am

placid wrote:Thanks for proving you are a liar.

The truth is always right.

And the truth will set you free.
??? WTF? :lol: :lol: :lol:
What are you on, placid? How, even in your evident confused state, can you claim I've proved myself a liar? About what, you stupid child?

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:02 pm

Poodle wrote: What are you on, placid? How, even in your evident confused state, can you claim I've proved myself a liar? About what, you stupid child?
Look back in the history books of illusory knowledge for your evidence that you proved yourself a liar.

Wait...here I'll magically bring the past back to the now for you to save you having to get in your time machine.

Read and weep..
Please ..if you return to reply to me once more, I will know for sure, you have not respected my wish for to you to stop talking to me, and I'll know for real that you were lying when you said you worry for me.
You couldn't respect my wish, as you've obviously replied to me, when I asked you not to, so you lied, don't worry about this one here, just worry about yourself...now stop replying to me you fool.

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Re: Adviata Debunk / Calculator Scenario

Post by Confidencia » Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:37 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Ten people, with ten hand calculators with small printers, all go to separate locations. They open ten envelopes, each containing the same very complex maths problem. The ten humans then enter the figures, print the result and meet, They all have the same answer printed out.


Confidencia wrote: And all this take place in the consciousness.
No. They are ten different people. Whose consciousness do you pretend they exist in? Yours? The cats? Placid's :lol:
If the world exists in my consciousness then everything in the world is obviously there too.
This destroys Placid and Confidencia's entire religious framework.
Firstly, if there were no electrons performing the calculations, the "observers" would have to make up the resulting answers in their heads, yet they all have the same answer.
Confidencia wrote: Because they all have the same consciousness.
No. They all have the same correct answer to a complex maths question.


Which exists in the consciousness. "They all" "same correct answer" "complex maths question" are all ideas in the consciousness. Nothing exists outside of consciousness.


If they all just made up the resulting answer in their shared minds it wouldn't be correct. Yet that never happens. QED your religion is debunked. :D
Of course. On the level of the mind there is seperation. Each mind works according to its nature but the working mechanism is the same because it is rooted in the same consciousness. Then the maths question in the mind of the observer is superimposed over a common theme. The individual mind merely recognises the pattern within the common theme and registers it in the consciousness. The question according to the pattern arises in the consciousness, as does the answer.
Secondly, no human brain can calculate really complex mathematical equations so it must be something real and external like the electrons in the calculator.
Confidencia wrote:No that's why the calculations are made in consciousness
That is nonsensical gibberish. Either the answer is correct or it isn't.


From the perspective of the mind the answer is both right and wrong, it all depends on how you look at it. In reality such questions are false. You cannot answer a false question but by exposing its truth.

You are pretending an incorrect answer could be imagined as correct, but then no calculator in the world would ever need to be correct.


You have already imagined the question, naturally an answer whether correct or incorrect will also be the product of your imagination. The real is not a product of the mind, you cannot imagine the real.


Yet in reality calculators always give the same correct answer. QED your religion is debunked. :D
Of course fundamentally they work on the same principle as a computer. As long as you input the same rules naturally you will get the same output based on those same rules.
Well that debunks another another stupid religious claim on the Skeptic Society forum. :D
:mrgreen: To debunk something you must know and understand what you are talking about. You neither understand nor know much of either. 8-)

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:04 pm

The I can only know what it does not know.

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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Poodle » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:05 pm

placid wrote:
Poodle wrote: What are you on, placid? How, even in your evident confused state, can you claim I've proved myself a liar? About what, you stupid child?
Look back in the history books of illusory knowledge for your evidence that you proved yourself a liar.

Wait...here I'll magically bring the past back to the now for you to save you having to get in your time machine.

Read and weep..
Please ..if you return to reply to me once more, I will know for sure, you have not respected my wish for to you to stop talking to me, and I'll know for real that you were lying when you said you worry for me.
You couldn't respect my wish, as you've obviously replied to me, when I asked you not to, so you lied, don't worry about this one here, just worry about yourself...now stop replying to me you fool.
So where in that lot do I say that I'm not going to reply to you? It's YOU who set that up - there it is in black and white so that you can't delete it. Because I do not respect your wishes (which I certainly don't) does not imply any obligation on my part not to reply to anything you say, and YOU most certainly do not have any ability to impose it upon me. What if I were to demand that you stop posting on this forum? Do you think I have a right to do that? Do you think I have a right to control anything you say (and that's an 'obviously not' otherwise you'd be struck dumb)? Of course not. This is a forum which YOU chose to join.

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placid
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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:11 pm

Poodle wrote:
So where in that lot do I say that I'm not going to reply to you? It's YOU who set that up - there it is in black and white so that you can't delete it. Because I do not respect your wishes (which I certainly don't) does not imply any obligation on my part not to reply to anything you say, and YOU most certainly do not have any ability to impose it upon me. What if I were to demand that you stop posting on this forum? Do you think I have a right to do that? Do you think I have a right to control anything you say (and that's an 'obviously not' otherwise you'd be struck dumb)? Of course not. This is a forum which YOU chose to join.
Okay, if your too lazy to stop replying to me, I'll save you the effort, by doing it myself, geez, ...if you want something done around here you just have to do it yourself.

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Io
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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by Io » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:20 pm

Image

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placid
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Re: Who is the Knower of Knowledge?

Post by placid » Sun Jan 28, 2018 1:24 pm

Poodle wrote: What if I were to demand that you stop posting on this forum? Do you think I have a right to do that? Do you think I have a right to control anything you say (and that's an 'obviously not' otherwise you'd be struck dumb)? Of course not. This is a forum which YOU chose to join.
I would never have asked anyone to stop posting on this forum..it's not the same as asking someone to stop replying, now you are just being a drama queen by taking this to the extreme.

I guess they have ignore facilities on this forum, but I don't think they work very well, that's why I asked you personally to stop...but you can't can you because your ego head likes to block out the brilliant sunshine that is my post content.