"Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:51 pm

Here's semantics for you: total fail.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:53 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:The sex drive kicks in for a non pedophile rapist who looks at any girl over the age of, say, 13. The big majority of rape victims are between say 14 and 34 (not 18 and 34). That is the age range where women look sexiest, and also the age range where they are least vulnerable in terms of ability to resist physically. It is also about one quarter of a womans total life span. That age group is seriously over represented in rape statistics.

The argument that some people outside that range are also raped is a very, very weak one. That is like Xoupers argument on guns that a minority of murder victims are stabbed, so guns are OK. Most rapes are of the sexiest women, and most rapes are driven by the sex drive. To suggest that most are driven by the desire for power and control is quite ludicrous.
Bold added above...

But Lance - that is also the age at which they are likely to be most vulnerable due to being a) out and about, and b) unprotected by a parent or husband. If rape were more as aspect of availability/opportunity, then their physical strength wouldn`t much matter, nor would their apparent sexual appeal.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:09 am

TJ

That ignores my main point, which is that the more vulnerable women are least affected by rape. Over three quarters of a woman's life span, her chances of being raped is well below half that of being raped during the other 25%. Why?

Women younger than 14, or older than 34, are not continuously protected. There is ample opportunity for a rapist if he is after a more vulnerable woman.

Now, I agree that date rape (the most common variety) is related to women going out unescorted except by the rapist. But date rape is the most clearly due to the sex drive and not to any other motive. it normally happens after heavy petting at the end of a date. At which time the gal says no, and the guy thinks he is too turned on sexually, and he forces her. Date rape is 100% due to the sex drive and only an idiot claims it is due to the desire for power and control.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by TJrandom » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:17 am

More likely to be, Lance - certainly not continuously, but maybe just enough to deter the opportunist and cause the serial rapist to look elsewhere.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:26 am

"My proof.........is repetition."
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Nikki Nyx » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:40 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:The argument that some people outside that range are also raped is a very, very weak one. That is like Xoupers argument on guns that a minority of murder victims are stabbed, so guns are OK. Most rapes are of the sexiest women, and most rapes are driven by the sex drive. To suggest that most are driven by the desire for power and control is quite ludicrous.
It's not "some," Lance. At least a third of rape victims fall outside the 14-34 age group. That's not a small minority; it's a significant statistic. Sheesh.

Also, what on Earth makes you believe that every single female between 14 and 34 is "sexy?" Perhaps you haven't seen the exhibit entitled "What were you wearing?" It's a display of the outfits rape victims were wearing when they were assaulted, and it's overwhelmingly not sexy clothing. T-shirts and jeans. Loose pajamas. Track suits. Buttoned-up office wear. A police uniform, FFS.

I was wearing a long-sleeved t-shirt, loose pajama pants, a terrycloth bathrobe, socks, and slippers. Hardly the outfit to incite sexual desire.

You really have to examine your biases regarding this issue.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:08 pm

Nikki

Clothes are not what makes a woman sexy. In fact, in my so utterly humble opinion, the sexiest outfit is the birthday suit. But there is no doubt that the ages 14 to 34 are the sexiest.

I would love to see my other prediction tested. That is, that rape victims average better looking sexually than their peers. A reputable researcher could probably get the assistance to check this, but I see no way I could. Sexual attractiveness is not recorded in rape statistics.

Let me say one more thing. Where there is a problem to be addressed (rape in this case), the best starting point is information. Get the facts. That does NOT mean bull-{!#%@} politically correct "facts". It means reality. To determine what drives rape, do the research. And not research designed to confirm a bias.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:46 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:
Let me say one more thing. Where there is a problem to be addressed (rape in this case), the best starting point is information. Get the facts. That does NOT mean bull-{!#%@} politically correct "facts". It means reality. To determine what drives rape, do the research. And not research designed to confirm a bias.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:41 pm

Oleg

I do see your point. But let me make another. This is something that needs research. And good research. Not a bunch of politically motivated idiots who design their tests in order to confirm their preconceptions.

I would be DELIGHTED to see good research in this area, by competent researchers who do not go into it with their conclusions already prepared. If they prove me wrong, that is also great, because they will be finding the truth. I have to say I doubt it. The idea that rape has nothing to do with the sex drive is weird. Like the idiot Trump saying, after the Vegas shooting, that it had nothing to do with guns. Duh!

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:49 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Nikki

Clothes are not what makes a woman sexy. In fact, in my so utterly humble opinion, the sexiest outfit is the birthday suit. But there is no doubt that the ages 14 to 34 are the sexiest.
Ummmm.......you are starting to rotate off your nut. I wonder why. Why would a nude 14yo be "sexy" to anyone of mature character? Seems to me, a normal person would immediately empathize with her condition and get her some clothes? If you mean as in a subject of artist's depiction......thats not how nude kiddies look when on their own. I think you are confusing several different issues here.....as all too often.
Lance Kennedy wrote: I would love to see my other prediction tested. That is, that rape victims average better looking sexually than their peers. A reputable researcher could probably get the assistance to check this, but I see no way I could. Sexual attractiveness is not recorded in rape statistics.
Well Lance---NOTHING YOU HAVE POSTED has been "proven." You have several data fields.......and you are simply assuming your own view of causation. Your appreciation for scientific investigation has broken down when it come to nude 14yo's......Amusing.
Lance Kennedy wrote:Let me say one more thing. Where there is a problem to be addressed (rape in this case), the best starting point is information. Get the facts. That does NOT mean bull-{!#%@} politically correct "facts". It means reality. To determine what drives rape, do the research. And not research designed to confirm a bias.
As stated above..........facts is exactly what you don't have. There are no Rape Experiments to test your CONCLUSIONS. You admit the problem is complex.....but you have a simple answer based on introspection of your own emotions and drives. Now Lance, what do we call THAT? Hint: its not good scientific facts.

In flying airplanes, the joke/wisdom is that the hardest maneuver for a pilot to execute is a level 180 degree turn. ie: Abort the mission and go back to home base.

In fancifying that we are a scientist, looks like the hardest maneuver to execute is to recognize that we don't know.

Ain't reality a Bitch?
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:53 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Oleg

I do see your point. But let me make another. This is something that needs research. And good research. Not a bunch of politically motivated idiots who design their tests in order to confirm their preconceptions.
.........and you separate YOURSELF from "motivated idiot" how? Gee Lance.....seems to me you are some kind of Feminist Scientist.....just of the anti-fact of the matter kind.

Thats going to sting.........if you ever recognize it. So....recognize the sting, recognize the facts.... and make it a positive. Its always good to correct wrong/bad thinking.

Go for it.............reality doesn't have to be a Bitch.......always. its almost like you have a choice in the matter.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:58 pm

Bobbo

There is a lot of data on the psychology of rapists. I have said that they are arseholes. That is a simplification, of course, since the bunch of people we can call arseholes comes in various categories. Rapists are frequently in the violent category (surprise, surprise). Although the most common form of rape (date rape) is generally not too violent.

Which leads me to 14 year olds. Since rapists are arseholes, we cannot judge them as being like you and I. Yes, I agree that a naked 14 year old would more likely arouse my concern than my sex drive. But I am not a rapist.

The motives behind rape are not singular, and many kinds of rapists exist, from the common date rape due to over-aroused sex drive, to fantasists and fetishists, to those who are violent, or hate women, and so on. But underneath it all lies the sex drive. Without that, there may be violence against women, but it would not take the form of rape. Kinda obvious!

Those who think rape has nothing to do with sex are the same as those who think shootings are nothing to do with guns. I will refrain from commenting on their level of intelligence.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:23 pm

Lance: go read up on "necessary but not sufficient." Everything you don't understand has been examined and reduced to this phrase. We learn about it in introduction to science courses. I had it in High School, and once again in College. You have no insights: just errors.

Saying that rape doesn't occur without the sex drive.....is totally subsumed in "necessary but not sufficient." Its akin to saying: "Rape doesn't occur without legs."................yes.....but it takes more than legs. Why can't you get this simple fact? You claim you are not a rapist, you claim you have a sex drive, and yet say its a scientific fact that: and here you split the baby in half: that rape is CAUSED BY the male sex drive, but then in not fully formed recognition that the sex drive is "underneath it all."

Lance: please go read some High School intro to Science.

And I can't resist it: "date rape is generally not too violent."==and here you conflate the struggle of a date rape with....what?==>a pistol whipping?
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:33 pm

sorry....firefox keeps crashing making it hard to post: NO ONE has suggest that "rape has nothing to do with rape." This is how you are rotating off your nut. Making up straw man arguments as part of your "thinking" and argument. Again: its all part of "necessary but not sufficient."

Really lance.......its a basic term of existence, used outside of science too. Go get those extra credits.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:39 pm

It is soooo hard to communicate with you, Bobbo.

You may not have suggested that rape has nothing to do with sex, but that is where I began, since the feminist fallacy is that rape has nothing to do with sex. If you are arguing against me on this thread, you are arguing for that fallacy.

You are hung up on the phrase 'necessary but not sufficient'. Try to get past it, will you. It is interfering with your ability to enter the discussion in a rational manner.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:42 pm

lance: did I, or did I not, sugges that rape has nothing to do with sex?.....and more on point, as you gloss over all informing nuance: "the sex drive." Not the same as sex. Ain't that a Bitch: people not recognizing what you meant to say?/or what you meant by what you did say???

Easy enough on a direct simple word choice........more difficult when you dont want to recognize what necessary but not sufficient means.

Very conservative on your part: not wanting to learn anything new, or apply a concept you know that doesn't give you the result you want. ................ Like a feminist scientist you are.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Nikki Nyx » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:42 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Clothes are not what makes a woman sexy. In fact, in my so utterly humble opinion, the sexiest outfit is the birthday suit. But there is no doubt that the ages 14 to 34 are the sexiest.
Your opinions are not facts; they're not even data.
Lance Kennedy wrote:Let me say one more thing. Where there is a problem to be addressed (rape in this case), the best starting point is information. Get the facts. That does NOT mean bull-{!#%@} politically correct "facts". It means reality. To determine what drives rape, do the research. And not research designed to confirm a bias.
It also doesn't mean that whatever confirms your bias is factual.

Following is the most comprehensive study on rape motivation to date (Barbaree and Marshall), which presents a number of models of rape motivation based on empirical studies measuring sexual arousal in response to both consenting and violent sexual scenarios in both rapists and non-rapists.
——————————
Model #1 - Ability to Suppress Arousal (Response Control)
Studies found that rapists were unable to suppress sexual arousal in response to rape stimuli. (The motive is not simply sexual desire; it's sexual desire based on violence that motivates them to rape.)

Model #2 - Response Compatibility (Response Control)
Studies found that rapists are able to respond with both hostile aggression and sexual arousal simultaneously, while non-rapists lack this ability. However, non-rapists provoked to anger toward women were also able to respond with both aggression and arousal simultaneously. (Again, the motive is not simply sexual desire; it's the ability to commit violent actions while sexually aroused.)

Model #3 - Sexual Preference: Cues of Force and Violence as Excitatory (Stimulus Control)
Studies found that rapists are equally aroused by violent sexual stimuli as they are by depictions of consenting sex. Non-rapists were considerably less aroused by rape stimuli. (And again, normal sexual desire is not the motive; rapists are aroused by violence against women.)

Model #4 - Inhibition: Cues of Force and Violence as Inhibitory (Stimulus Control)
Studies found that non-rapists respond to rape stimuli with both empathy and inhibited arousal, while rapists respond without empathy and with increased arousal. (Once again, the rapist responds to violence + sex.)

Model #5 - Disinhibition of Arousal to Rape Stimuli
"Disinhibition" is the condition in which a subject's ability to inhibit sexual arousal is lost following a disruptive event. Six disruptive events are examined. (In all these subcategories, the conclusion is that every man possesses the ability to commit violence while sexually aroused, given a concurrent or intervening event.)
Permissive Instructions - Studies found that when subjects were told that sexual arousal to rape stimuli was "normal," their ability to distinguish between consenting and non-consenting clues was reduced.
Alcohol Intoxication - Studies found that when subjects believed they had imbibed alcohol, they showed greater arousal to rape stimuli.
Anger Toward a Female - Studies found that when subjects were provoked to anger by the actions of a woman, they completely lost the ability to distinguish between consenting and non-consenting clues.
Victim Blame - Studies found that subjects exposed to a portrayal of rape in which the female actor claimed the experience sexually aroused her became more aroused to rape stimuli.
Excusing the Rapist's Behavior - Studies found that non-rapists habitually excuse the actions of the rapist if he has imbibed alcohol or is in a long-term relationship with his victim.
Exposure to Pornography - Studies found that subjects exposed to pornographic rape stimuli showed reduced discrimination between consenting and non-consenting clues.
Note: Researchers have concluded that Model #5 is most applicable to acquaintance and date rape, since both are perpetrated by men who lack the other psychological characteristics of rapists, but who fail to respond appropriately to indications of non-consent.

Model #6 - Emotional State Augmentation
Studies found that rapists' ability to inhibit sexual arousal was dependent upon their emotional feelings toward a particular woman and/or women in general. Positive feelings of love and affection inhibited arousal to rape stimuli, while negative feelings of hate and hostility increased arousal to rape stimuli. (And yet again, it's not simply sexual desire. The rapist's motivation is based in hate and hostility.)
——————————
From this comprehensive study, we can conclude the following:
1. The rapist becomes sexually aroused by violence against women. The non-rapist does not.
2. The rapist is able to commit aggressive violence while sexually aroused. The non-rapist is not.
3. The rapist lacks empathy for his victim. The non-rapist possesses empathy for women.
4. The rapist's emotional response toward a woman is an indicator of his ability to rape her.
5. Most disturbing, concurrent or intervening events can cause the non-rapist to respond like the rapist.

In all cases, it is not merely sexual desire that is the motivator. There is always a clear lack of empathy toward the victim, an ability to commit violence while sexually aroused, a negative emotional response to the victim as a human being, an abnormal response to concurrent or intervening events, an inability to distinguish between consenting and non-consenting clues, and a complete lack of emotion regulation. It's not simply the fact that the rapist is sexually aroused; it's why he's sexually aroused. And that consistently revolves around some level of misogyny...apathy at the least, hostility at the worst.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:20 pm

Straw man alert!!

I have never said that sexual desire ALONE was a motivator.
Yes, it is well known that there are frequently other contributing factors.
My statement, in case you forgot, Nikki, was that sex drive was the basic cause of rape, but it required an arsehole to go through with it. Arsehole in many cases means tendency to anger and violence, as I said once before.

So, the basic cause of rape is the sex drive, but this is not sufficient in most cases. It also requires a person who does not consider a woman's rights. That lack of consideration may come from a number of causes.

The clearest case of sex drive as dominant motive is date rape, and that is also the most common form of rape. Date rape also requires less of those horrible added factors such as anger and tendency to violence. What is minimal is the desire for power and control, which is the feminist fallacy I was fighting.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jan 16, 2018 10:58 pm

Lance - have you provided any date rape data that supports your contention? Do you have any such researched data, or is this just your opinion?

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:31 pm

TJ

Nikki just provided it.

Her assorted modes begin with sexual desire. Of course, they all talk of sexual desire affected by other variables such as being turned on by violence. But that is OK. That is a part of the whole picture. Different guys get turned on by different things, and horrible guys get turned on by horrible things.

I have done enough private internet research to have uncovered all this, but I hesitated to post it, because a lot of people will assume that an alternate turn on means it is not the sex drive. There is a widely held fallacy that if an assertion of fact turns out to be a phenomenon with more than one variable, the assertion must be wrong. That interpretation is bull-{!#%@}, of course, but I have enountered it so many times. Especially in the gun control arguments, where saying that murder rate is affected by more than just gun ownership means gun ownership is not an important effect.

If I pointed out that the sex drive of rapists was affected by weird stuff, some idiots will then argue that sex drive is not the underlying cause, which is a crap argument.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by TJrandom » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:47 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:TJ

Nikki just provided it. ...
I may be reading challenged, but I did not find an analysis of date rape in Nikki`s post. Do you have one?

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:57 pm

No

Because there is insufficient research, as I have said before. I have encountered several written accounts by psychologists who present the results of their research as descriptions of what motivates rapists. There seems to be a dearth of statistical data.

However, the researchers have listed the influences on rapist motivation according to their findings, and they include a raft of things, such as violence, hatred for women, weird fantasies, assorted rationalisations, and so on. But under all these things is the male sex drive. Various things stimulate it, of course, and rapists are more likely than other guys to be turned on by stuff that will not affect a normal and decent man.

My point throughout is that it is NOT a drive for power and control. It is the sex drive, no matter how it is affected by other factors. Denying that the sex drive is the cause is like Donald Trump denying that guns have anything to do with mass shootings. Pure idiocy.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:11 am

Poor Lance. New ideas. Just how old are you Lance??????

"necessary but not sufficient" is inconsistent with "basic cause." You should read a dictionary.

A challenge: what the frick is "basic" cause. Check yourself Lance..............when you start making up your own terminology...... you aren't far from nuts.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:00 am

Bobbo

A basic cause is something that has to exist. Without the male sex drive, there would be no rape. So it is a basic cause.

Hopefully, even you can understand that much. It is simple enough.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:13 am

Lance: are legs and eyes or a nice car a basic cause of rape? Either way: why?

You will not find "basic cause" used in any reputable peer reviewed analysis. ............... Guess why.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:40 am

Bobbo

Getting desperate?
What a silly argument.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:05 am

Lance: you urge science, then drop to fatally ambiguous non scientific nomenclature. "Necessary but not sufficient" is the scientific nomenclature that tell us something regarding causation in the rape/sex drive equation. Basic, tells us nothing.

Something vs Nothing. See the difference?
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by TJrandom » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:51 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:No

Because there is insufficient research, as I have said before. I have encountered several written accounts by psychologists who present the results of their research as descriptions of what motivates rapists. There seems to be a dearth of statistical data.

However, the researchers have listed the influences on rapist motivation according to their findings, and they include a raft of things, such as violence, hatred for women, weird fantasies, assorted rationalisations, and so on. But under all these things is the male sex drive. Various things stimulate it, of course, and rapists are more likely than other guys to be turned on by stuff that will not affect a normal and decent man.

My point throughout is that it is NOT a drive for power and control. It is the sex drive, no matter how it is affected by other factors. Denying that the sex drive is the cause is like Donald Trump denying that guns have anything to do with mass shootings. Pure idiocy.
OK, thanks - I can understand the lack of sufficient on-topic research. But lacking that, I don`t accept the jump to sex drive, or even mostly sex drive. Blaming rapists` sex drive, since everybody has one, is no different than saying it is because rapists are alive, as indeed dead people don`t rape, and all rapists are alive.

I tend to be more sympathetic to your claim that it probably isn`t a drive for power and control, but rape is indeed a manifestation of power and control - else the rape would only occur for incapacitated women (no power or control needed). But then I haven`t reviewed research on power and control and what makes such a claim supportable. That said, we do know that some rapists are indeed powerful men who use their control over their victims to perpetrate the rape.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:46 am

TJ

I think it is clear to any thinking person that rape is about sex. After all, there are plenty of hate and violence crimes. These involve beatings, whippings, incapacitating vitims, bondage, torture and all kinds of nastiness. But the most common is rape (or very often sexual molestation). Why? Because it is about sex. Duh!

The fact that everyone has a sex drive, and most do not rape, is not the same as saying rape is not about sex. Everyone has a drive to eat, and very few are cannibals. For the sex drive to proceed to rape requires that the person doing it is an arsehole. Most of us, thankfully, are not arseholes.

Power and control can be seen in some situations as a tool to gain sex. Sure. But it is still about sex. The fact that many rapists are ALSO hung up on violence etc. is not an argument against the fact that it is about sex.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:58 am

Beatings. They are mostly caused by the underlying basic drive men have to beat people up. Same as sex and rape.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:40 am

I hesitate to post this, but its on point:
Special report: 75 women have been strangled or smothered in Chicago since 2001. Most of their killers got away.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... D=ref_fark

Of note: many of the women were prostitutes and druggies, hence making the "vulnerable." As prostitutes, one would assume if a man wanted sex without the risk of committing a capital offense...he could have paid for it. Not stated how many were raped as well, but it clearly was not "basically" the goal.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Nikki Nyx » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:47 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:Straw man alert!!

I have never said that sexual desire ALONE was a motivator.
Yes, you did. Multiple times, not even counting the other thread...
Lance Kennedy wrote:If rape is due to power and control, then most victims will be those women who are vulnerable. ie. older or handicapped.
It rape is due to the sex drive, then most victims will be those women who most stimulate the sex desire. ie. Younger women, less than 35 years.

Except that the sex drive IS the cause of rape.

By far the most common form of rape is date rape. That is 100% sex drive.

But date rape is the most clearly due to the sex drive and not to any other motive.

Date rape is 100% due to the sex drive and only an idiot claims it is due to the desire for power and control.

Sex drive is normally the basic motive
Then, as is characteristic of your arguments, you began modifying your original position...
Lance Kennedy wrote:The sex drive is the main motive

So the sex drive is necessary to cause a person to commit rape, but not sufficient, since the rapist must also have other qualities that make him do the wrong thing.

The motives behind rape are not singular, and many kinds of rapists exist, from the common date rape due to over-aroused sex drive, to fantasists and fetishists, to those who are violent, or hate women, and so on. But underneath it all lies the sex drive.
Now, go back and read my last post, which is actual evidence based on empirical studies, something which you've failed to provide. Also, I'd like an explanation for this statement of yours...
Lance Kennedy wrote:Rapists are frequently in the violent category (surprise, surprise). Although the most common form of rape (date rape) is generally not too violent.
Are you so stuck in your confirmation bias bubble that you refuse to recognize that rape is violence? Are you so blinded to your own biases that you fail to comprehend the physical and emotional repercussions of rape? Quite aside from the initial trauma of forcible penetration against the victim's will, long-term effects can include:
  • Chronic pain
  • Gastrointestinal disorders
  • Gynecological complications
  • Migraines and other frequent headaches
  • Sexually transmitted infections
  • Cervical cancer
The fact that you're able to classify rape in a particular situation as 'generally not too violent' proves your ignorance on the subject.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Nikki Nyx » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:52 pm

Lance Kennedy wrote:For the sex drive to proceed to rape requires that the person doing it is an arsehole.
Proof that you didn't read my post. It doesn't require the man to be an {!#%@}; concurrent or intervening disruptive events can and have made non-{!#%@} men become rapists. GO READ MY POST.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:53 pm

Nikki

I hate to say it, but this is straw man alert number two.

Please do not suggest I have said things I did not. Sheesh!!

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:15 pm

LANCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is exactly what you said. Hmmm....does that make YOU a straw man?.......I think we've gotten proof that is true regarding your brains.......but how low does it go, Straw Man?

In fuller context, you really do apply logic that destroys your own position........you are just too full of Straw to see it:
The fact that everyone has a sex drive, and most do not rape, is not the same as saying rape is not about sex. Everyone has a drive to eat, and very few are cannibals. For the sex drive to proceed to rape requires that the person doing it is an arsehole. Most of us, thankfully, are not arseholes.
Now Lance: is being a cannibal about the need to eat?

.........now apply your correct logic to your incorrect position on sex drive..........and speaking of straw men...don't substitute the terminolgy. .........ahhhh....I'm tired of repeating myself, but I will note the scientific introduction of the concept of arsehole. Very data driven.

Nikki: I think we have to let Lance function on his own. Woo will have its way, person to person, SUBJECT to SUBJECT. Here is the Fun part: identify this hooman failure in yourself. Decide what to do with it.................

ain't reality a Bitch? ((Thats no reference to yourself....ha, ha.))
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:28 pm

I said that rape is about sex. But I also said it was multifactorial.

Any statement by yourselves to the effect that I said it was solely about sex is a straw man. Now please stop it.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:42 pm

"rape is about sex" vs "rape is not solely about sex" === quibbling.

A good argument never quibbles.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:42 am

Your quibble, Bobbo, is a straw man fallacy.

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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:00 am

Whats the straw man?

If you send me an Private Message with a mail drop..............I'll send you a dictionary.
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Re: "Feminist scientist" is an oxymoron.

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:27 am

For your information, Bobbo, since you seem to need instructing, a straw man fallacy is when someone argues, not against the debate opponent's view, but against a distorted version of that view.

You have distorted my view by acting as if I said rape is monofactorial. In fact I made it clear from the very beginning that there are many factors. My view is that the underlying, and most important cause of rape is the sex drive. But the rapists may be influenced by all sorts of weird psychological quirks in addition to that basic cause.