IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:13 pm

Tom Palven wrote:However, according to Matt Ellard, anyway, if you believe that there is a Clapper/Brennan neoconservative secret police steering committee that runs US foreign policy, once again, you are just a poor lost soul.
Tom, I know you are very stupid.......but how can James Clapper and John Brennan be running the intelligence services if they are both retired? You are aware they retired right? :lol: :lol:

Soooo.....Tom....

Name one member of your "Deep State" secret conspiracy against Trump and your supporting evidence for that claim?

You can't even do that can you....and its your theory.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:18 pm

Tom Palven wrote:Last edited by Tom Palven on Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:39 am, edited 4 times in total.
Gee Tom, You and Sean Hannity really seem to be struggling recently to explain what your "Deep State" conspiracy even is.

Explain to us what the "Deep State" conspiracy actually is and show us your supporting evidence.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Tom Palven and Gorgeous are our last two pro-Trump spammers. Tom promotes the "Deep State" conspiracy and Georgeous promotes the (((Illuminati))) conspiracy theory.
:lol: :lol:
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 24, 2018 1:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote:However, according to Matt Ellard, anyway, if you believe that there is a Clapper/Brennan neoconservative secret police steering committee that runs US foreign policy, once again, you are just a poor lost soul.
Tom, I know you are very stupid.......but how can James Clapper and John Brennan be running the intelligence services if they are both retired? You are aware they retired right? :lol: :lol:
I haven't seen their CIA discharge papers.

You seem to be aware of everything that's going on up this way.

Does the ASIS have access to them?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:20 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Tom Palven and Gorgeous are our last two pro-Trump spammers. Tom promotes the "Deep State" conspiracy and Georgeous promotes the (((Illuminati))) conspiracy theory.
Why would I care whether anyone is pro-Trump or not?

Why would anyone?

There's a disturbing trend of dismissing the Right as selfish idiots.

All politics is the art of the self-advantage, disguised as the best benefit of the many. This goes for Left as well as Right. Neither is any more idiotic or selfish than the other.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 24, 2018 2:43 am

Wordbird wrote:This goes for Left as well as Right. Neither is any more idiotic or selfish than the other.
There's your false equivalency. Bad for a word bird.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:02 am

Wordbird wrote: Why would I care whether anyone is pro-Trump or not? Why would anyone?
Similarities in behavioural thinking and tendency to believe in conspiracies. Inability to distinguish fact from fiction.

You're new here aren't you?

Wordbird wrote:There's a disturbing trend of dismissing the Right as selfish idiots.
No. There is a time saving technique of treating pro-Trump spammers, like Tom Palven and Gorgeous as complete idiots.

Are you a Trump fan?

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:08 am

Trump and his fans make more false equivalencies than do non-trumpies………..on the few occasions they get that detailed. Usually: just bald faced lies. ((Yes...more than non-dumpsters.))

Only 7 posts: and a working hypothesis. I predict: short time.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:11 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Tom, I know you are very stupid.......but how can James Clapper and John Brennan be running the intelligence services if they are both retired? You are aware they retired right? :lol: :lol:
Tom Palven wrote: I haven't seen their CIA discharge papers.
Well Tom. Sorry about your Alzheimer's symptoms getting worse.

You know that bloke called President Trump, who you are in love with? (probably not as that was a day ago) He appointed a new director of the CIA called Mike Pompeo and then moved Mike Pompeo to become Secretary of State. That meant John Brennan isn't still director of the CIA.

Can you remember any of that? Would you like me to draw simple pictures for you, again, so you can follow the conversation?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 3:20 am

Tom Palven wrote: Does the ASIS have access to them?
The Russian SVR and GRU have complete access to the CIA files...... thanks to Trump....

.....so do you want me to ask the Russians?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 24, 2018 7:13 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tom Palven wrote: Does the ASIS have access to them?
The Russian SVR and GRU have complete access to the CIA files...... thanks to Trump....

.....so do you want me to ask the Russians?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Yes, please ask the Russian secret police to document if Brennan and Clapper are still employed by the CIA.

You seem to have much better access to the US secret police down there than I do up here. Up here they are pretty secretive.
https://torontosun.com/news/world/trump ... oplay=true

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2018/j ... t-bond-007

An article about your arch-enemy, my hero, Julian Assange, and a mention of one of your heroes, "former" MI6 agent Christopher Steele.
http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archive ... n-assange/
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:54 am

Tom Palven wrote:Yes, please ask the Russian secret police....
Which one Tom? Be specific. GRU Signals, GRU, SVR or FSB? :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:You seem to have much better access to the US secret police down there than I do up here.
That's because you can barely read and write remember and believe in non existing conspiracies? You can't look up things that don't exist. You and Gorgeous, the forum's Trump fan club, keep getting confused about that.

Did you forget again? You're in your late 70's right, like Gorgeous?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Tom Palven » Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:10 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Did you forget again? You're in your late 70's right, like Gorgeous? [/color] :lol: :lol: :lol:
72, but why do "retired" Clapper and Brennan still need security clearances?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:58 pm

Tom Palven wrote: 72,
Ahhh...that explains your early senility and extreme conservatism. :lol:
Tom Palven wrote:but why do "retired" Clapper and Brennan still need security clearances?
Tom Palven wrote:I haven't seen their CIA discharge papers.
You poor confused old duffer. You think Clapper and Brennan still work for the CIA yet simultaneously think they don't work for the CIA? Can you remember what year it is? :lol: :lol:

In reality, they don't need security clearance. Traditionally, they retained security clearances to discuss matters that span different directorships of the DNI and CIA. The Russians don't want them there for the next Russian attack in the November mid-terms.....so Trump has removed their clearance to help the Russians.


Deep State Question for Tom Palven
Are you still claiming James Clapper and John Brennan are secret members of the a magical secret organisation called the "Deep State" that secretly runs the US government? What is your evidence?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:54 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Deep State Question for Tom Palven
Are you still claiming James Clapper and John Brennan are secret members of the a magical secret organisation called the "Deep State" that secretly runs the US government? What is your evidence?

How about you answer these questions I've asked you before.

1. How do you explain the fact that Commander-in-Chief Barack Obama praised Dr. Mohamed Morsi...

(While living in the United States, Morsi became an Asst.Prof. at the California State University, Northridge from 1982 to 1985. Morsi, an expert on precision metal surfaces, also worked with NASA in the early 1980s, helping to develop Space Shuttle engines.[29][30]
In 1985, Morsi quit his job at CSUN and returned to Egypt, becoming a professor at Zagazig University, where he was appointed head of the engineering department. Morsi was a lecturer at Zagazig University's engineering department until 2010.
)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Morsi

...and his democratically-elected parliament, while US CENTCOM aided, abetted, and funded the Egyptian military as it overthrew Morsi in a coup probably orchestrated by the CIA, and installed General Abdul Fattah al-Sisi who abolished freedom of speech and of the press and threw Morsi in prison where he and many elected members of parliament remain, while the US continues to aid and abet al-Sisi and the Egyptian military.

2. Commander-in-Chief Donald Trump said he wanted to release thousands of CIA documents pertaining to the Kennedy murder, which were required to be released by law, and said the CIA "wouldn't allow" him to do it.


3. The powers-that-be (Deep State, MIC, whatever) continue to undermine détente between the Koreas and with Russia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/worl ... ities.html

Bear in mind that the CIA and the other secret police are secret organizations. Proof of what they do is hard to come by unless people like Snowden and Assange release some secret documents. Until then we have to connect dots and read between lines to gather evidence.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:08 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Similarities in behavioural thinking and tendency to believe in conspiracies. Inability to distinguish fact from fiction.
I've believed in two main "conspiracy theories" in my life. One of them has been proven right.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 78808.html

I don't think this was so much a conspiracy theory, and I didn't know it was the US government doing it, but I knew some of the stuff in museums (painting a circle, or painting a canvas a solid colour and having that valued at millions of dollars) was not good enough to be in museums while actual artists struggled.
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Wordbird wrote:There's a disturbing trend of dismissing the Right as selfish idiots.
No. There is a time saving technique of treating pro-Trump spammers, like Tom Palven and Gorgeous as complete idiots.
I prefer to get at the actual truth rather than save time and assume it.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you a Trump fan?
Why would it matter if I was? Let's just say I am.

I have an if people are good test that involves being the worst thing possible to them and being treated as a person anyway.

Some racists have passed. So far, the only people to fail completely are libertarians. They don't care what you believe; if they perceive you as pro-government for any reason, the same thing from you will be judged a horrible unnecessary rights violation while someone they perceive as pro-freedom will be lauded for the same. Literally tested this with the statement: Taxes are necessary.

Yes, these people not only don't believe in taxes (which I wouldn't judge anyone by), they believe the statement taxes are necessary is wrong if it comes from the wrong person, and acceptable if it comes from someone pro-freedom. And their only debate tactic is to insult.

I would hope that if we're legitimising such time-saving techniques as judging people by their beliefs, skeptic would come out far, far ahead of racist.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:30 pm

There are two things called conspiracy theories. To sort them out I call one "conspiracy advocacy". Woodward and Bernstein suspected a conspiracy. Alex Jones, on the other paw, sees conspiracies in everything.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Tom Palven » Wed Jul 25, 2018 4:44 pm

Wordbird wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Similarities in behavioural thinking and tendency to believe in conspiracies. Inability to distinguish fact from fiction.
I've believed in two main "conspiracy theories" in my life. One of them has been proven right.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 78808.html
What is the other conspiracy that you might or might not still give credence to?

The CIA-modern art connection seems far-fetched until one considers such things as the CIA trying to murder Castro with exploding cigars, and Operation Mockingbird:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird

Oh, btw, I was speaking to a person recently who said that the CIA doesn't operate in the US because it's charter prevents it. I don't think that I'd heard that nonsense in decades. As if the CIA obeys laws.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:08 pm

Tom Palven wrote:What is the other conspiracy that you might or might not still give credence to?
That perhaps some doctors, and the pharmaceutical industry, with probable cooperation or at least complicity from the FDA, often give out medicines that are worse than the disease.

I know car mechanics do this, and since self-interest is a reasonable assumption, and every industry benefits from increased demand, I think it's reasonable to assume that at least sometimes, it happens. Whenever the causal agent has more know-how in the given field than the victim, it's going to be very hard to prove, too.

I think it's a bigger assumption that it never happens, which entails a presupposition that the pharmaceutical industry is made up of angels or that the FDA is immune to corruption. Whenever the victim doesn't have the medical know-how, the opportunity exists, and the less sane the victim is, the easier it is to write off any complaints they do have as craziness, so anti-psychotic drugs are probably a hothouse of this type of exploitation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1CnEnhicUo

"More symptoms? ((Woohoo I'm reelin' in the dough now!)) Here's six more pills, one for each!" *charges Medicaid for all of it*

Think of the response you're probably having. "Lol the schizo won't take his meds."

It's that very brushoff that creates the in. No one will care. The opportunity is provably there. To me it's unreasonable that no one would exploit it.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:23 am

Wordbird wrote:I've believed in two main "conspiracy theories" in my life. One of them has been proven right.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 78808.html
This article states that the CIA (formed in 1947) funded an international promotion arts program to promote USA abstract Impressionists, such as Jackson Pollock, overseas. It didn't mention that Jackson Pollock had already been painting for 10 years before the CIA was even founded and financially supported by the Federal Arts Project of 1936, domestically. The CIA simply promoted an existing federal funded group of artists overseas. It also doesn't mention that artworks from the original abstract expressionist arts movement from Russia were sold into the USA by Stalin between the wars to raise money and Russian Modern art was flooding New York. It also doesn't state that this CIA program was disclosed in 1966

-------------------------------------
Wordbird wrote:There's a disturbing trend of dismissing the Right as selfish idiots.
Matthew Ellard wrote:No. There is a time saving technique of treating pro-Trump spammers, like Tom Palven and Gorgeous as complete idiots.
Wordbird wrote:I prefer to get at the actual truth rather than save time and assume it.
Well if you agree with Tom Palven that the "Deep State" controlled by James Clapper and John Brennan is out to get Trump.....then provide some evidence. If you belive Gorgeous that the Jewish (((Illuminati))) is out to get Trump, and remote viewers are protecting him.....then provide some evidence.


---------------------------------------
Matthew Ellard wrote:Are you a Trump fan?
Wordbird wrote:Why would it matter if I was? Let's just say I am.
Well just say so, unless you are totally embarrassed. It saves time for us having to read links provided by Tom Palven and Gorgeous to pro-Trump websites, called things like "American Conservative" or "Anti War Blog" and so on.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:49 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:This article states that the CIA (formed in 1947) funded an international promotion arts program to promote USA abstract Impressionists, suck as Jackson Pollock, overseas. It didn't mention that Jackson Pollock had already been painting for 10 years before the CIA was even founded and financially supported by the Federal Arts Project of 1936, domestically.
What I'm talking about is success, and recognition in the art world. Whoever has the funding, it shows. Whoever's paintings are selling for the most, it shows.

It's a vicious cycle that has analogs in the world of rap. Ever heard, "You gotta fake it to make it."? The people who have the recognition get more recognition. The people who have the money get more money.

This is just how art is. Nobody knows what art is, and they only care that they have the painting with the highest dollar value hanging in their drawing room.

If the CIA had its paws in, ever, it's wasn't a level playing field. If they contributed to the success of abstract artists, it put those in the spotlight and prevented people who could draw from getting a chance.
Matthew Ellard wrote:It also doesn't state that this CIA program was disclosed in 1966
Well no one I ever spoke with knew about it since 1966, and the article doesn't give that impression, either.
The existence of this policy, rumoured and disputed for many years, has now been confirmed for the first time by former CIA officials.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Well if you agree with Tom Palven that the "Deep State" controlled by James Clapper and John Brennan is out to get Trump.....then provide some evidence. If you believe Gorgeous that the Jewish (((Illuminati))) is out to get Trump, and remote viewers are protecting him.....then provide some evidence.
I'd have to see the evidence. My personal experience doesn't indicate anything more than that Jews are the most biased, racially-preferenced hirers but that they tolerate this behaviour in others the least. Again, this is just what I've seen personally, and there could be no trend at all, just coincidence. I would even tend to agree that there's nothing wrong with them doing this.

I have no evidence that anything beyond normal human blinders to their own biases is going on, though. I don't know of any vast conspiracies.

I do think the Palestinians often get the short end of the stick in the Middle East, but somebody's got to when two populations hate each other that much, and it'd be shortsighted to blame either side. They're enemies. They fight. Each tries to screw the other. End of story.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Well just say so, unless you are totally embarrassed.
Why would I state my beliefs when you've just admitted I'm going to be judged for them?

Just assume I'm the worst thing of all options and go from there.

If you're the type of person who gives special preference to white people, or liberals, or dogs, or soup... then I am a black conservative cat sandwich.

In other words, I don't want any advantages. I feel I can stand without them.

And if I am wrong, and I need those advantages to swim... well then, I deserve to sink.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:58 am

Wordbird wrote:What I'm talking about is success, and recognition in the art world.
Apart from those people in the art world who know the original Russian abstract expressionist movement. If you are saying the CIA used art as propaganda and some people fell for the propaganda......well that's what propaganda is.
Wordbird wrote:It's a vicious cycle that has analogs in the world of rap. Ever heard, "You gotta fake it to make it."?
Thomas Hoving at the Met was the guy who spotted the fakes.

Matthew Ellard wrote:It also doesn't state that this CIA program was disclosed in 1966
Wordbird wrote:Well no one I ever spoke with knew about it since 1966, and the article doesn't give that impression, either.
The Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF) was an anti-communist advocacy group founded in 1950. At its height, the CCF was active in thirty-five countries. In 1966 it was revealed that the United States Central Intelligence Agency was instrumental in the establishment and funding of the group.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_ ... al_Freedom

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:30 am

It does not say anywhere in that link that anyone ever admitted that they threw funding at abstract art for any reason other than that it was just good.

Giving prizes to musicians and artists is hardly a suspect activity. People probably assumed that they gave them out to the best musicians and artists in a merit-based way. The idea that they had any ulterior motive for advantaging specific art styles was, previously, a conspiracy theory.

I had no idea about the CCF funding, but I knew something wasn't right about beautiful realistic paintings being chucked in the trash by the truckload while canvasses painted a solid colour sold for millions.

And I knew the art world was all about smelling their own farts, but I figured someone had to first feed them the crap they were farting out.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:20 am

Gee......I have a dilemma. Always hate the bad/nonsense vs good/insightful combo in a single post:

The bad: "It does not say anywhere in that link that anyone ever admitted that they threw funding at abstract art for any reason other than that it was just good." //// Ummmmm…..the links title is "Central Intelligence Agency was instrumental in the establishment and funding of the group." Is it your position the CIA only funded art because it was just good?

The good: "And I knew the art world was all about smelling their own farts, " /// Yea, Verily. Don't need a finely tuned schnoz to know this. Thought nearly the same thing seeing the Last episode of Civilizations last night where Simon Schama rhapsodized about how a collection of stamped bottle caps woven into a kind of quilt was a statement about consumer waste...…….or, whatever he farted.

Kurt Vonnegut wrote: "Art is a conspiracy between rich people and artists to make poor people think they are dumb."

Which corresponds to an insight I had years ago watching one of the Rockefellers collect African Tribal Masks when no one else was for cans of food. He did not corner the market AS THERE WAS NO MARKET, for African Tribal Masks. Then he made a market for what he alone had...…………………………..GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And we see the rich continue to do this today. Art: what the AlreadyTooRich are reduced to invest in if they want the chance at leveraging their loose cash...………..as we are too dumb to tax it.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:51 am

Wordbird wrote:It does not say anywhere in that link that anyone ever admitted that they threw funding at abstract art for any reason other than that it was just good.
I will tell the art agents who profited from the sale of Russian artwork in the 1930s that they didn't do it for money. I will then telephone the French government and abuse them for promoting abstract art at the main Salon and Salon des Refusés at the end of the 19th Century.
Wordbird wrote:Giving prizes to musicians and artists is hardly a suspect activity. People probably assumed that they gave them out to the best musicians and artists in a merit-based way. The idea that they had any ulterior motive for advantaging specific art styles was, previously, a conspiracy theory.
I see..... the USA's Academy Awards is based on only awarding "quality" movies and not promoting and maximising studio or distributor profit. :D

I think you need to consider that as WWII progressed, more and more European art was flooding the USA art markets. The Americans wanted their own famous artists.......a bit like Mormons claiming Jesus went to America.

You will also note that the CIA was not the main sponsor but only a partial sponsor in some overseas exhibitions.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Wordbird » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:42 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Is it your position the CIA only funded art because it was just good?
No, no, no. My position is that before around 1995 when the article came out, people didn't know there were ulterior motives for the CIA's funding of abstract art.
Matthew Ellard wrote:I will tell the art agents who profited from the sale of Russian artwork in the 1930s that they didn't do it for money. I will then telephone the French government and abuse them for promoting abstract art at the main Salon and Salon des Refusés at the end of the 19th Century.
I just did a quick search and found some of the 19th Century abstract paintings. If you do the same, I'm sure you'll notice the same thing I did: It doesn't all look like it comes from people who can't draw and some of it is actually very expressive.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._M._W._Turner

Here's one from pre-1900 and I have absolutely no objection to anything he painted. He doesn't only do abstracts, though.
Matthew Ellard wrote:I see..... the USA's Academy Awards is based on only awarding "quality" movies and not promoting and maximising studio or distributor profit. :D
This is my whole point in this thread! It is a leap to assume the Academy Awards have an ulterior motive. It's a minor leap, but it is a leap, and my whole point from the start has been how people will give their own little leaps a pass while chiding others for engaging in conspiracy theories and jumping to conclusions.

Of course Hollywood is self-interested. Of course the pharmaceutical industry is. Of course every industry is. It's the bigger assumption that they're all unbiased angels.

But if you assume self-interest in the wrong industry, you're suddenly a conspiracy theorist with something wrong with your brain.
Matthew Ellard wrote:I think you need to consider that as WWII progressed, more and more European art was flooding the USA art markets. The Americans wanted their own famous artists.......a bit like Mormons claiming Jesus went to America.

You will also note that the CIA was not the main sponsor but only a partial sponsor in some overseas exhibitions.
Americans have and had a lot of good artists. They didn't need Pollock, and arguably Pollock isn't even that bad if you assume the paintings are for nothing more than staring at. (Though you can do the kind of thing I'm talking about just as well with a dirty wall or a popcorn ceiling.) There's at least interest.

When someone paints a circle, or paints a canvass a solid colour and it sells for millions of dollars, I call shenanigans, and it's not that big a leap.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:55 pm

How art died.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Austin Harper » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:55 pm

Is this a precursor to Piss Christ?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Poodle » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:40 pm

It's the wrong way up, therefore it's art. Many of you will be pleased to hear that the original has been lost. I think it can probably be advantageously replaced by a large rock.
And if you're REALLY into listening to pseuds, here's a couple of art appreciators discussing it ...
https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ ... ntain-1917

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by landrew » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:57 pm

"Anything original is art."
But only appreciated art is a gift. The rest is a burden.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by gorgeous » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:37 pm

ex-criminal banker refused to attend child sacrifices... he details how as a banker criminal he helped terrorists, in cooperation with churches, secret services, Russia crimes,arms sells,govts to create wars....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:56 am

A friend of mine who produces and sells items described as art has his own definition.

He says anything is art if someone is prepared to pay money for it.

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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:09 am

Kurt Vonnegut called art a conspiracy between rich people and artists to make poor people think they were dumb. Close enough.

In my view: commerical art is more scam than anything else. Rockefeller family is well known for "creating" several "art markets" eg: African artifacts starting with Tribal Masks. It mostly comes down to capturing markets and turning ordinary income into capital gains. ART: that you create yourself for yourself, doesn't matter how crappy it is........an excellent time waster.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by gorgeous » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:25 pm

what do you think of the banker's story? he's very believable..
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:49 pm

Science was right.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by gorgeous » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:55 pm

what he said about leaving his body when abused is correct...many victims reported the same...
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:02 pm

And that makes it true because...
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by gorgeous » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:03 pm

he seems traumatized...say it's all true ...then what?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by landrew » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:12 pm

It's nearly as stupid to say no conspiracies exist, as to say that nearly everything is a conspiracy. No need to be polarized in that opinion. Some conspiracies do exist. Big ones have been exposed and documented. Small ones exist everywhere; in schoolyards, between businessmen, politicians and yes, even government, but the trick is to know where to draw the line. A good skeptic should have a better idea than a non-skeptic.
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:22 pm

Who says no conspiracies exist?
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Re: IF YOU BELIEVE IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES, SCIENCE SAYS THERE’S SOMETHING WRONG WITH YOUR BRAIN

Post by Lance Kennedy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:50 pm

Conspiracies exist. But conspiracies depend on secrecy. A revealed conspiracy really is no longer a conspiracy.

There is, however, a general principle of human nature that goes like this.
Two people can keep a secret as one of them is dead.

In other words, conspiracies have the habit of being betrayed. As a general rule, the biggest conspiracy that will not be betrayed is about ten people. The classic example is the mafia, who have the most powerful disincentive to betrayal (we will kill you !). Yet various mafia families keep getting betrayed.

So, if someone claims a very large secret conspiracy, you know it is crap, because no conspiracy above ten people operates without betrayal. That is why Wikileaks works.