Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Poodle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:11 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:... If you are the sort of person who questions everything in life, is adamant there is no god, believe in finding answers through science and observation ( that's most here right..?) then an experience on DMT can answer all those questions and more ...
It's odd that people are still looking for answers, then.
carbonbasedlifeform wrote:...BUT...i find it impossible to translate the info garnished from the experience into anything that I can pass on as usable or helpful information. I actually find that aspect of this chemical utterly frustrating, it's like being shown and told the answers to everything, but being stripped of the ability to bring that info back here to reality...
And there's the reason. It's not possible to translate garbled gobbledygook into real information because there is no real information flashing into existence inside an intoxicated mind. The only ability of the substance is to make you THINK you're having blinding insights.

When you're stoned out of your mind, it's the easiest thing in the world to divide by zero.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:20 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I recall Sting saying after he experienced ayahuasca, that it was the only time he had ever had a GOD like experience...he also struggled trying to explain it.
I would think that if you took a strong psychedelic drug and went looking for god, then that is the sort of experience you will get. If you took acid and went looking for scary monsters, that's the sort of experience you would get in that case. I think the drug is enhancing and confusing thoughts already "in the mix". I'm pretty sure no person has ever hallucinated anything brand new and not from their memory.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by carbonbasedlifeform » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:27 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I recall Sting saying after he experienced ayahuasca, that it was the only time he had ever had a GOD like experience...he also struggled trying to explain it.
I would think that if you took a strong psychedelic drug and went looking for god, then that is the sort of experience you will get. If you took acid and went looking for scary monsters, that's the sort of experience you would get in that case. I think the drug is enhancing and confusing thoughts already "in the mix". I'm pretty sure no person has ever hallucinated anything brand new and not from their memory.
hmmm that's a very simplistic way to see it, I can honestly say with DMT you don't know what you are going to get, every single time is different, you cannot seek GOD under DMT because it is different every single time, remembering this is nothing like a beer or a some pot, this is a 3 min experience that leaves you completely sober at 4 mins, the only way I can describe it is...

you lay back and shut your eyes..this world is removed, and replaced with things I cannot explain, other compounds simply morph and distort whats in front of you, DMT does nothing like that, it's not even a feeling, it's a 3 min journey through a wormhole and back, no feelings, just info.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Poodle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:32 pm

Stop using it. It's screwing your mind.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by carbonbasedlifeform » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:43 pm

Poodle wrote:Stop using it. It's screwing your mind.

errrr i don't use it, i did use it for a time, very responsibly, are you familiar with the book and film the Spirit molecule...?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by carbonbasedlifeform » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:48 pm

I am completely amazed since coming here how many negative and blinkered posters there are...

my views on life and science are you must test all areas, no matter how ridiculous they are, that means completly exhausting every single aspect of a subject before coming to a conclusion, this attitude of a hand to the face before even understanding or discussing is very negative I find.

science needs to have a softer hand and grow a sense of humour if it is to push all the lies and rubbish off the cliff properly, arrogance will only further entrench those who are distrustful of it.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:57 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I recall Sting saying after he experienced ayahuasca, that it was the only time he had ever had a GOD like experience...he also struggled trying to explain it.
I would think that if you took a strong psychedelic drug and went looking for god, then that is the sort of experience you will get. If you took acid and went looking for scary monsters, that's the sort of experience you would get in that case. I think the drug is enhancing and confusing thoughts already "in the mix". I'm pretty sure no person has ever hallucinated anything brand new and not from their memory.
It great that you bring this out. I had run several "illegal" experiments during high school with friends who needed money for drugs like DMT and other things like that. I gave them the money and then ask them to think about god or some spiritual stuff and they did sometimes get these hallucinations but sometimes they did not. There are many variables which is needed to take into account. I did these experiments because I wanted to know if its true that by using drugs you can contact the spiritual realm. Sadly nothing came out of it only that my friends got "high".
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:00 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:
Poodle wrote:Stop using it. It's screwing your mind.

errrr i don't use it, i did use it for a time, very responsibly, are you familiar with the book and film the Spirit molecule...?

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rick Strassman wrote it that we have DMT in our brains and that DMT can releases into other spiritual realms. Not very convincing. He has joined the woo crowd:

http://www.skeptiko.com/rick-strassman- ... our-brain/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I admit Strassman has made some progress but his conclusions about a afterlife are total woo.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:01 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I am completely amazed since coming here how many negative and blinkered posters there are...
This is your personal belief but I cannot agree with this. This forum has a lot of good posters who know their ways in science and know what they are talking about.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by carbonbasedlifeform » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:03 pm

wtf...you don't take DMT to get high...do you understand this...???

no one takes DMT to get high...it's not a recreational compound.

never mind, I will not pursue this here as it's not going anywhere of any use.

Rick Strausman is not the point, the point is what the people in trials experienced.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Shen1986 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:06 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:wtf...you don't take DMT to get high...do you understand this...???

no one takes DMT to get high...it's not a recreational compound.

never mind, I will not pursue this here as it's not going anywhere of any use.

Rick Strausman is not the point, the point is what the people in trials experienced.
Can you read? It seems you are the one who knows nothing here:

I wrote this:

Sadly nothing came out of it only that my friends got "high".

I meant that you get hallucinations and euphoria.. Oh boy you did not read anything at all..

Even wikipedia is saying that you can get high:
DMT can produce powerful psychedelic experiences including intense visuals, euphoria and hallucinations.[8]
Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltr ... properties" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Poodle » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:07 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I am completely amazed since coming here how many negative and blinkered posters there are...

my views on life and science are you must test all areas, no matter how ridiculous they are, that means completly exhausting every single aspect of a subject before coming to a conclusion, this attitude of a hand to the face before even understanding or discussing is very negative I find.

science needs to have a softer hand and grow a sense of humour if it is to push all the lies and rubbish off the cliff properly, arrogance will only further entrench those who are distrustful of it.
Don't be too amazed, and don't mistake a positive stance for being negative and blinkered. Have you any idea how many acid-heads, alien abductees, SHC claimants, and general nutters demand that their claims should be examined AGAIN when, in fact, they have been examined an untold number of times? Do you realise that the number of "it's never been disproved so it could be true" statements based on nothing other than that on this forum alone is in the hundreds and climbing?

If you want serious discussion, then provide something to discuss other than a rather wishy-washy opinion based upon you being intoxicated. If you want to claim that using intoxicants is a way to some basic truth, then provide some evidence of the basic truth divorced from chemically-induced la-la-land.

So no - you must not test all areas. Some of those areas are silly and have been done to death. Let's stick to rational claims backed up by evidence, please, rather than feelings and unfounded opinions.

I see you're very active around the net saying exactly what you're saying here ... but you missed this bit ...

"In the 1960s, some reportedly referred to DMT as "the businessman's trip" due to the relatively short duration of vaporized, inhaled, or injected DMT. Although the smoke produced is described as harsh by some, it can be mixed with cannabis, herbs and be used in a pipe, bong, or a vaporizer. This helps to improve the smoothness of the smoke, ultimately making DMT easier to ingest."

So obviously not recreational, eh?

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by kennyc » Thu Jan 16, 2014 1:27 pm

Shen1986 wrote:
carbonbasedlifeform wrote:I am completely amazed since coming here how many negative and blinkered posters there are...
This is your personal belief but I cannot agree with this. This forum has a lot of good posters who know their ways in science and know what they are talking about.

Interesting when they are shown how wrong they are, they blame society. :lol:
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:41 pm

To CBL

Drug experiences are purely subjective and internal. In science, we do not use those experiences to draw conclusions about anything except the experience itself. Certainly, the drug high will not reveal greater truths about the universe. Just minor truths about the person having the drug high.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:55 pm

Shen1986 wrote:It great that you bring this out. I had run several "illegal" experiments during high school with friends who needed money for drugs like DMT and other things like that. I gave them the money and then ask them to think about god or some spiritual stuff and they did sometimes get these hallucinations but sometimes they did not. There are many variables which is needed to take into account. I did these experiments because I wanted to know if its true that by using drugs you can contact the spiritual realm. Sadly nothing came out of it only that my friends got "high".
When I was in my early 20 I took a fair amount of LSD in the form of blotting paper tabs. I normally did this with a group of people. Sometimes, if on my own, I would go out of my way to think of the most disgusting think I could think about, or the most awe inspiring thing I could think about, to see what I could "conjure up". It didn't work. The moment any distraction occurred, my brain would "change mood" and follow the distraction.

It is my layman's guess that the nature of the drug stops a person from having long dwelling "religious" thoughts during the period when most hallucinations are occurring. In addition as LSD causes sensory input gaps which the brain "makes up the difference" the hallucinations are generally just "breathing Persian carpet" effects and sounds through a cheap guitar FX pedal. There were no "brand new" hallucinations.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Jan 16, 2014 11:01 pm

carbonbasedlifeform wrote:my views on life and science are you must test all areas, no matter how ridiculous they are, that means completly exhausting every single aspect of a subject before coming to a conclusion
Well practice what you preach son. You said you were open minded about McKenna's theory. The members of this forum researched mushroom distribution, the history of larynx evolution in hominids and all aspects of the claim before dismissing it. You didn't.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Well practice what you preach son. You said you were open minded about McKenna's theory. The members of this forum researched mushroom distribution, the history of larynx evolution in hominids and all aspects of the claim before dismissing it. You didn't.
Ooooo this thread is starting to get fruity :D

Cant wait to reply in full to all critiques when i have the time to engage.

At the risk of being accused of being lazy can you link me to the "larynx evolution in hominids" part of this thread?
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:30 am

zeuzzz wrote: At the risk of being accused of being lazy can you link me to the "larynx evolution in hominids" part of this thread?
Post 68.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by kennyc » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:32 am

Oh gawd look who's back.....
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:37 am

I should probably post this 15 minute video for those that have taken an interest in this subject, straight from the mouth of the original proponent of the theory:

[ytube][/ytube]
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:37 am

kennyc wrote:Oh gawd look who's back.....
So whut? :D
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:38 am

For the record: Who has ever tried the thing(s) this very thread is about?
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:26 am

zeuzzz wrote:straight from the mouth of the original proponent of the theory:
McKenna talks about our "evolutionary destiny". Uh huh.

He gives the date for tripping hominids developing language in the "last five million years" which is very very silly.

He only uses the word "hominid ancestor" as he can't match his theory to physiological changes in Australopithecus or any specific hominid. He is being fuzzy on purpose.

He then directly lies and states that hominids avoid new foods as they might contain mutagens and didn't want to have mutant children. Uh huh.

"I want to concentrate on one plant, the Psilocybe Mushrooms" A mushroom is not a plant. Psilocybe Mushrooms are more than one living species. In fact he never names the species of mushroom in his claim.

"The mushroom was native flora of the grass land". We debunked this before. It isn't a native of the grassland in Africa. He is lying.

"Our ancestors knew how to find the mushrooms under cow patties" What cows? He can't even state which ungulate he means and he hasn't ever found a Psilocybe mushroom under any poo in Africa at all. He now making it up as he goes.

The proto-hominids only ate tiny amounts of Psilocybe. If you and I ate this amount today we would not notice" Well I'm glad that "proto hominids" carried around scales to measure the amount of drugs in a tripping mushroom.

"Proto hominids saw small animals as dinner." is absolute rubbish. Early hominids were scavengers not hunters.

He then lies again and says the members of the hominid group that took Psilocybe mushroom would out breed those that did not. This is just ridiculous and ignores all the other evolutionary changes taking place.

From then on he just goes into complete fantasy. McKenna is a total fantasist.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:33 am

A-number wrote:The hallucinations of an illegal drug user are NOT spiritual, if they were, one could also describe smoking a cigarette, or getting drunk as such.
That is a fair and just comment.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Gord » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:31 am

With regards to hallucinations: I once had a dream (a normal, everyday, non-drug-inspired dream) in which I invented "the world's greatest swear word". I woke up and wrote it down, otherwise I would not have remembered it when I awoke the next morning. "The world's greatest swear word" turned out to be a repetitive string of two other swear words, which in the waking world are less than inspired.

If I hadn't written it down, I'd still think of the time when I had dreamt the world's greatest swear word, and regret that I could not remember what it was. I'd still be convinced of its validity, even though it was actually nothing more than dream-gibberish.

The mind can construct amazing feelings and surround complete gibberish with them. If we can't "translate things easily", it might just be because we're dealing with that sort of gibberish -- and in the case of drug-induced hallucinations, that's almost guaranteed to be the case.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:09 am

Medicines work as they cure conditions.

Mushooms seem to work clinically for a variety of conditions too. Mainly the human one.

Doesn't matter if what is 'seen' on them is gibberish, the research shows a long lasting positive effect up to months after taking the medicine.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:46 pm

In fact I might even go as far as saying that these substances are current cures for the worst aspects of the human condition as a whole.

Mainly against egotism, destructive habitual behaviors, greed and 'business as usual'.

I think the main thing that they do is inject a tremendous amount of distance between us an our culturally sanctioned point of view, ultimately we are not the creatures of our culture, we are biologically defined. And these substances seem to put these things in perspective and open people up to a wider horizon of reality, not confined by consumer object fetishism, aggressive capitalism, or other similar subject > object relationship based ideologies.

Often, but not exclusively, by curing the western based neurosis of the fear of death, by generally helping give a new perspective on life and what is really important over money and other materialistic western predicated ideologies.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:01 pm

A recent special report about the very recent scientific studies into giving terminal cancer patients medium/large doses of psilocybin to help them overcome their anxiety of death and be at peace:

[ytube][/ytube]
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:24 am

A-number wrote: I don't do drugs, yet Jesus showed up to me, out of the thin air and on more than one occasion.

A very common occurence. Normally diagnosed as schizophrenia.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:48 am

Can we refrain from scripture in this thread? ... While I appreciated your long post here as it must have taken along time to write (thus the thanks), I don't think that Jesus, or any other Abrahamic religions points, are at all relevant to this threads subject, A-number.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:56 am

A-number wrote:We are endowed with a mind and set of tangible tools. Average intelligence for example usually unables one to overcome the majority of the said problems. Some more or less than others.
And why does one have to strive to cure the fear of death? One day, they are gonna die, whether they fear it or not. That simple. Why should that be a problem?
If you watched the video I linked to you will see that for many people fear of death clouding rational perspective is a real problem for very many people.

A lot of people in our culture (not all but certainly the majority) see life literally under the mantra of "he who dies with the most toys wins". They get an eduction, they get a job they hate for 50 years, and then they wonder what the **** they have been doing for their life once they retire and eventually re-focus on what is actually important. This is the message of capitalism and western culture, it takes an intellectual to notice this game and ignore the cultural engineers, that want to turn turn you into a half baked reality TV consuming moron just ingesting all the trash that is being manufactured out of the roots of a dying world.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by kennyc » Sun Jan 19, 2014 1:57 am

Lance Kennedy wrote:
A-number wrote: I don't do drugs, yet Jesus showed up to me, out of the thin air and on more than one occasion.

A very common occurence. Normally diagnosed as schizophrenia.

Not sure I'd call it common, but yes when you see, hear, experience things that are not there....
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by doctorlao » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:29 pm

Opinion anyone? How many ‘Stoned Ape Cyber-Traveling Theory Show’ missionaries bill themselves as ‘zeuzzz’ ("possibly"). Ideal answer, preferred - baseless conjecture. In honor of McKenna’s “methodology.”

Googled ‘zeuzzz stoned apes’ - and found a veritable blizzard of OP sermons, like something on the march, making internet rounds. Many at forums like this, staging “LetsTalk About Stoned Apes” play. Posted by folks calling themselves .... right - ‘zeuzzz.’

I’m not one to jump to conclusions. Could be just coincidence, phone book might list many under that name. And a lot of them could ("its possible!" - Judy Tenuta) be dedicating their lives to the ‘fascination’ of a theory so ‘possible’ as this - if I follow its storyline correctly.

And I realize religious conversion can be powerful. Turn a Saul into Paul. But if what I see by googling – is all the same ‘zeuzzz’ – it’d suggest some rather considerable fervor of sheer devotion. As if to a scripture. Interesting reflections too, checking hits that come up (whoo boy).

On ostensible subject: Seems this McKenna character was a real piece of charismatic cultic work. For lo, it was he who ‘gifted’ us with Y2K12 - yeah. We have this McKenna guy to thank for more than just this ‘stoned apes’ crock. 2012ism too. According to studies by Mayan archeologist John Hoopes; and Euro scholar W. Hanegraaff.

Zeroing in closer: Stoned ape-wise ... holy cow (internet, again). First: McKenna basically lied, made up starter material. Needed to conjure ‘evidence.’ So for that noble purpose, he told his awestruck believers, scientists (Fischer & Hill) discovered psilocybin ‘enhanced visual acuity’ (‘in low doses’). Voila, the ‘first step’ of his ‘theorizing’ – the ‘data.’ To help put it over, he dropped their names and publication titles - give it an air of as-if-factual, make it sound legit (“no, really”).

Seems (impression) quite a gamble of derring-do, calculated risk. Because it left a trail anyone could follow to those articles. See what they actually say, for real. And guess what (I checked it out) ... mmmm-hm. In reality the studies say no such thing. The researchers whose names McKenna dropped - didn’t even study ‘low dose’ effects. And results differ drastically from the story McKenna told.

One gets a sense, looking in - McKenna was narcissistically proud of his ability to deceive, confound. And he loved making a merry madcap mockery of whatever; for fun and profit. Like any professonal con, its how he made his living. He had to. For him it was that, or – work. But he was sloppy. On rare occasion, in carefully secured settings (where he felt 'safe' ...) he actually bragged about his stoned apes fraud. Two examples:

“I felt if I could … convince people drugs were responsible for large brain size … get drugs insinuated into a scenario of human origins, I would cast doubt on the whole paradigm of Western Civilization. So, it was CONSCIOUSLY PROPAGANDA …” (http://deoxy.org/t_mondo2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

And this one (again, straight from the horse’s mouth) - hints maybe it oughta be called Operation Stoned Apes: “Since I feel pretty much around friends and fringies here, it doesn’t trouble me to confess ... FOOD OF THE GODS, I conceived of as an intellectual Trojan horse. Written as though it were a scientific study, citations to impossible-to-find books and so forth … simply to ‘assuage’ academic anthropologists. THE IDEA IS – to leave this thing on their doorstep; rather like an abandoned baby, or Trojan horse” (" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Something fishy - deep sea fishy. Walking point around it, I can’t confirm it has much to do with all kinds of stuff it wraps itself in. E.g., whether mushrooms were growing somewhere hominids roamed, in some dim evolutionary past. Seems more to do with neo-cultic stuff in our midst. Trying to pass itself off to believers and doubters, all takers - as something other, like a theory. As a tactic, its utility (as reflects here?) is to claim - spuriously declare - its legitimacy for presentation, discussion, ‘serious consideration’ a “possibility’ (all stoned apes buzz phraseology, as I notice).

I'm not sure exactly what to think about these little aspects. I’m not much for ‘Sciencey’ Creationism either, from old time religion's hardline. Stoned apes seems like new age psychedelia’s entry in the same sweepstakes. I just thought of an advertising slogan for it -

Evolutionary Pseudoscience - Its Not Just For Creationists Anymore !

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by doctorlao » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:35 pm

Ooops - I wanted to extend a laurel to two perceptive posters (been reading here). With apologies to some others, also deserving.

(1) Lance Kennedy: “all bullsh!t anyway. Evolution works by random mutations creating genetic variation, which is acted upon by natural selection. Those genes that assist in survival and reproduction will be increased in number and those that harm will be reduced in number.”

Yes.

And apropos of that - here’s Mr Science Says, kindly explaining evolution for us: “Orthodox evolutionary theory tells us that small adaptive advantages eventually become genetically scripted into a species.” http://deoxy.org/t_omni.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Wow ... the name Pavlov rings a bell. What about Lamarck?)

(2) Matthew Ellard: “You're right. I was bogging down on language issues and ignoring the big picture.”

Let not thy mind be digressed upon. Indeed, stoned apes works - operates, with deliberate ulteriority - precisely by tampering with ‘frame of the argument.’ Moving the goal posts, always, changing the subject endlessly, a labyrinthine hall of mirrors. McKenna geared stoned apes for diversion, distraction and utility to blur and undermine. More of ideology than idea about it - running on oppositional defiance, incorrigible stuff.

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:02 pm

doctorlao wrote:Googled ‘zeuzzz stoned apes’ - and found a veritable blizzard of OP sermons, like something on the march, making internet rounds. Many at forums like this, staging “LetsTalk About Stoned Apes” play. Posted by folks calling themselves .... right - ‘zeuzzz.’
This does appear to be true however our Zeuzz does post and interact on other topics, so what he does away from this forum is sort of his own business and not ours.

As a rule of thumb, when a new poster brings a dubious topic to this forum and talks about nothing else, some members search for similar postings using plagiarism checkers. This allows the reading of good counter arguments already posted by other people elsewhere. I was sort of already aware that other "zeuzz"es were posting the same information elsewhere.

As for McKenna's theory, it is a really dumb theory and the more anyone looks into McKenna's own words, the more obvious it is that McKenna doesn't have a clue what he is talking about and that McKenna doesn't actually have a theory that applies to any of the known facts. I can see why you say the theory is "cult-esque"

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by kennyc » Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:05 pm

And the Broncos are going to the superbowl..... woo-hoo!
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by octopus1 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:31 am

kennyc wrote:And the Broncos are going to the superbowl..... woo-hoo!
[ytube][/ytube]

Sorry :lol:

My knowledge of American Football is basically "The Green Bay Packers" and anything that was said in "The Simpsons" :P

Just because, I hope they win :-D
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by zeuzzz » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:34 pm

doctorlao wrote:Opinion anyone? How many ‘Stoned Ape Cyber-Traveling Theory Show’ missionaries bill themselves as ‘zeuzzz’ ("possibly"). Ideal answer, preferred - baseless conjecture. In honor of McKenna’s “methodology.”

Googled ‘zeuzzz stoned apes’ - and found a veritable blizzard of OP sermons, like something on the march, making internet rounds. Many at forums like this, staging “LetsTalk About Stoned Apes” play. Posted by folks calling themselves .... right - ‘zeuzzz.’

I’m not one to jump to conclusions. Could be just coincidence, phone book might list many under that name. And a lot of them could ("its possible!" - Judy Tenuta) be dedicating their lives to the ‘fascination’ of a theory so ‘possible’ as this - if I follow its storyline correctly.

And I realize religious conversion can be powerful. Turn a Saul into Paul. But if what I see by googling – is all the same ‘zeuzzz’ – it’d suggest some rather considerable fervor of sheer devotion. As if to a scripture. Interesting reflections too, checking hits that come up (whoo boy).

On ostensible subject: Seems this McKenna character was a real piece of charismatic cultic work. For lo, it was he who ‘gifted’ us with Y2K12 - yeah. We have this McKenna guy to thank for more than just this ‘stoned apes’ crock. 2012ism too. According to studies by Mayan archeologist John Hoopes; and Euro scholar W. Hanegraaff.

Zeroing in closer: Stoned ape-wise ... holy cow (internet, again). First: McKenna basically lied, made up starter material. Needed to conjure ‘evidence.’ So for that noble purpose, he told his awestruck believers, scientists (Fischer & Hill) discovered psilocybin ‘enhanced visual acuity’ (‘in low doses’). Voila, the ‘first step’ of his ‘theorizing’ – the ‘data.’ To help put it over, he dropped their names and publication titles - give it an air of as-if-factual, make it sound legit (“no, really”).

Seems (impression) quite a gamble of derring-do, calculated risk. Because it left a trail anyone could follow to those articles. See what they actually say, for real. And guess what (I checked it out) ... mmmm-hm. In reality the studies say no such thing. The researchers whose names McKenna dropped - didn’t even study ‘low dose’ effects. And results differ drastically from the story McKenna told.

One gets a sense, looking in - McKenna was narcissistically proud of his ability to deceive, confound. And he loved making a merry madcap mockery of whatever; for fun and profit. Like any professonal con, its how he made his living. He had to. For him it was that, or – work. But he was sloppy. On rare occasion, in carefully secured settings (where he felt 'safe' ...) he actually bragged about his stoned apes fraud. Two examples:

“I felt if I could … convince people drugs were responsible for large brain size … get drugs insinuated into a scenario of human origins, I would cast doubt on the whole paradigm of Western Civilization. So, it was CONSCIOUSLY PROPAGANDA …” (http://deoxy.org/t_mondo2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

And this one (again, straight from the horse’s mouth) - hints maybe it oughta be called Operation Stoned Apes: “Since I feel pretty much around friends and fringies here, it doesn’t trouble me to confess ... FOOD OF THE GODS, I conceived of as an intellectual Trojan horse. Written as though it were a scientific study, citations to impossible-to-find books and so forth … simply to ‘assuage’ academic anthropologists. THE IDEA IS – to leave this thing on their doorstep; rather like an abandoned baby, or Trojan horse” (" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

Something fishy - deep sea fishy. Walking point around it, I can’t confirm it has much to do with all kinds of stuff it wraps itself in. E.g., whether mushrooms were growing somewhere hominids roamed, in some dim evolutionary past. Seems more to do with neo-cultic stuff in our midst. Trying to pass itself off to believers and doubters, all takers - as something other, like a theory. As a tactic, its utility (as reflects here?) is to claim - spuriously declare - its legitimacy for presentation, discussion, ‘serious consideration’ a “possibility’ (all stoned apes buzz phraseology, as I notice).

I'm not sure exactly what to think about these little aspects. I’m not much for ‘Sciencey’ Creationism either, from old time religion's hardline. Stoned apes seems like new age psychedelia’s entry in the same sweepstakes. I just thought of an advertising slogan for it -

Evolutionary Pseudoscience - Its Not Just For Creationists Anymore !
Wow, you even signed up here Brian. Nice username change too. Your unique writing style betrays you at every turn. First JREF forum where you sign up fresh to attack this idea (before my banning), then you popped up at my blog, now you sign up here and simply make the same (largely irrelevant to the facts of the matter) points again when I try to ask another community about their thoughts on the theory. I question your motive but I admire your focus.

Now what was that comment someone else last said about you on my blog?

"You know what I like about incredibly articulate imbeciles like Brian Akers? Their detailed diatribes of dissent make it easier to see right through their "academic" arguments. See what you ask? To those who read between the lines, it offers a glimpse into the mind of a person so adversarial that they could disagree with God himself only because of the deepest rooted insecurities that you and I can only fathom.

"Hey, look at me! My grammer is awesome!". "Check out my ostentatious use of multisyllabic words!". A wordsmith such as yourself could be nothing else but infalliable. Is that not the implication of the loquacious, verbose and utter vexing nature of Mr. Akers rebuttal to the stoned ape theory?

McKenna was self admittedly an intellectual performer offering up theories rooted in facts, observations and extrapolation with psychedelic overtones. I applaud his efforts for thinking outside of the box (or in some cases a dodecahedron).

As far as an intelligent critique of Zeuzzz's interpretation of TM's Stoned Ape Theory, Brian only succeeds in illustrating a failure to be able to make a single succinct point. I actually pity his rigidity in entertaining others viewpoints as that is, in my humble opinion, the true basis for rational propagation of intellectual progress and productive discourse.
"

Ouch.

Get back to me when you can be more direct with the theory and it's main pitfalls.

Mr Ellard has pointed out a rather big one, which still needs addressing.
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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Kaepora Gaebora » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:29 pm

A-number wrote: Jesus voice and face are THE ONLY ONES I HAVE EVEEEER experienced. And this started only after 2007 when I got paralyzed for 5 days as result of a disk injury, and after I practiced forgiveness (you might want to consider trying that unstead of letting a 'muslim' women teach it to you, what a shame!)
Did Jesus also tell you to hate other ethnicities or religions, too?

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Re: Terence McKennas "Stoned Ape" Theory of Human Evolution

Post by Lance Kennedy » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:28 am

A-number wrote:
Pyrrho once warned against making such grave accusations against a person they have never met or seen, much less have a certainty about, unless they have medical proof, and tell me, as you seem to think, you know rotten boiled eggs, how did you get that?
Actually, if you read my note, you will see that it was not directed at any one person. But if A-number chooses to apply it to his/herself, then who am I to argue?