Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

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landrew
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:36 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 4:04 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:08 am
It goes without saying that the Chinese government kept records, handprints etc. They would not have congratulated him otherwise.
Pay attention. You seem to be struggling again.

If Chengdu university that, according to the internet meme, in 1930, reviewed the government records didn't exist until 1978 ....and this was the warlord period with no Chinese government......then why are claiming this? What Qing Dynasty government person congratulated the birthday boy 70 years after the Qing Dynasty ended? :lol:

The entire story is a Western joke. You missed it. Chinese don't celebrate birthdays like western nations do with western calendars. Also, the Qing Dynasty didn't magically store 400,000,000 ceramic dishes from every child's birthday and hold on to those dishes for 250 years.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:42 pm

Posting twaddle in this forum will keep things going, alright.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:42 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:08 am
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:48 pm
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:16 pm
The Chinese government records can be considered evidence.
There are no Chinese government records. There never was a 1930's New York Times article making any claim. No one ever made the claim in the first place. It is in internet meme that simply gets repeated.

A skeptic is not allowed to establish a strawman claim and then argue against that strawman claim. To do so would be arguing against all the variants of the Easter Bunny meme or Santa coming down the chimney meme.

A skeptic may only argue against an actual claim being made by someone.
It goes without saying that the Chinese government kept records, handprints etc.
Of course the Chinese government kept records - sometimes, for some, kept for some time, but lost, burned, trashed, forgotten - and certainly not without error and not to be believed without use of common sense and corroborating evidence. We have the same problems with our family register records even today, which is why officials go looking for corroborating evidence for anyone supposedly over 90. They look for a living body. Many times they find one, but more often they do not. Instead, frequently they find a relative collecting the pension.

Once you are able to come back here with verifiable evidence... oitherwise please do reject out of hand this nonsense.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:28 am

The Chinese government had been a problematical for quite a while before the Communists took over.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:02 am

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:36 pm
God forgive me, I do like to keep things going sometimes.
The reason I'm being mean is because of your other thread.
landrew wrote wrote:An archaeologist finds a coin dated 343 B.C. How does he know it's a fake?
In that thread you were able to dismiss the coin as a fake immediately. However in this thread.

"A claim is made that a 1930's newspaper article had evidence discovered by a university that didn't open until 1978"

.....and yet you say we are not allowed to dismiss the story as fake. I suggest there is no point lecturing us on skepticism when you can't apply it consistently yourself.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:14 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:02 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:36 pm
God forgive me, I do like to keep things going sometimes.
The reason I'm being mean is because of your other thread.
landrew wrote wrote:An archaeologist finds a coin dated 343 B.C. How does he know it's a fake?
In that thread you were able to dismiss the coin as a fake immediately. However in this thread.

"A claim is made that a 1930's newspaper article had evidence discovered by a university that didn't open until 1978"

.....and yet you say we are not allowed to dismiss the story as fake. I suggest there is no point lecturing us on skepticism when you can't apply it consistently yourself.
You don't have to keep it going too.
Unless you just like being mean.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:23 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:02 am
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 06, 2018 3:36 pm
God forgive me, I do like to keep things going sometimes.
The reason I'm being mean is because of your other thread.
landrew wrote wrote:An archaeologist finds a coin dated 343 B.C. How does he know it's a fake?
In that thread you were able to dismiss the coin as a fake immediately. However in this thread.

"A claim is made that a 1930's newspaper article had evidence discovered by a university that didn't open until 1978"

.....and yet you say we are not allowed to dismiss the story as fake. I suggest there is no point lecturing us on skepticism when you can't apply it consistently yourself.
You missed the point of that story entirely. The reason you "know" it's a fake is because no one could imprint a coin with "B.C." because they don't know when the "C." will occur. It's a riddle that illustrates a fallacy in some peoples' reasoning. An embarrassing one, that led to some laughter in a history class I took years ago.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:28 pm

It's not a "riddle", it's just dumb.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Lance Kennedy » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:02 pm

To Landrew

It is a matter of our approach to stories and ideas..
You have chosen to assert that we should not reject material that has a very small probability of being real, since even a small likelihood is still positive. While that sounds a reasonable approach, it is not.

Why is it not reasonable ? Because life is about probabilities and we have to make decisions all the time based on probabilities. The rational approach is to reject low probabilities and instead, be concerned about high probabilities. Several years back, some people sunbathing on a beach in Portugal got killed when a small plane fell out of the sky on top of them. Should that be a cause for refusing to sunbathe on Portuguese beaches ? Of course not. The likelihood of that happening again is too small to be bothered with. What about catching a ride home with a friend in his car when he is blind drunk ? Here, the probability of a disaster is very high, and the rational approach is to call a taxi.

We make decisions about our actions all the time based on probabilities. We should also adjust our belief system based on those probabilities. The chances that a person existed who lived past 200 years is of such low probability that, like deciding to sunbathe in Portugal because a disaster is unlikely, disbelieving such an unlikely thing is rational.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:45 am

landrew wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:23 pm
You missed the point of that story entirely. The reason you "know" it's a fake is because no one could imprint a coin with "B.C." because they don't know when the "C." will occur. It's a riddle that illustrates a fallacy in some peoples' reasoning. An embarrassing one, that led to some laughter in a history class I took years ago.
But I also know that a university established in 1978 cannot be researching something in a 1930's article. We both studied these sort of logic problems at uni. You for history and I for archaeology.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. No one is making a claim about a 256 old man. Skeptics can only respond to active claims, otherwise they would be arguing against their own created strawman arguments. That's why courts are adversarial.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gord » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:27 am

I lived to be 256 once, but then I stopped.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:45 am
landrew wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 3:23 pm
You missed the point of that story entirely. The reason you "know" it's a fake is because no one could imprint a coin with "B.C." because they don't know when the "C." will occur. It's a riddle that illustrates a fallacy in some peoples' reasoning. An embarrassing one, that led to some laughter in a history class I took years ago.
But I also know that a university established in 1978 cannot be researching something in a 1930's article. We both studied these sort of logic problems at uni. You for history and I for archaeology.

Anyhow, it doesn't matter. No one is making a claim about a 256 old man. Skeptics can only respond to active claims, otherwise they would be arguing against their own created strawman arguments. That's why courts are adversarial.
It's easy to respond to claims. What about weighing evidence? Not to lecture on what skepticism should be, but what's wrong with weighing evidence properly? That's not giving it short-shrift, just to dispose of it easily; it's a thorough job of exploring the data, on the chance of either disproving a belief or expanding our understanding. I have no desire to head off into the Land of Woo, just to give evidence a fair hearing so that I may form a better opinion on it.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:42 pm

You don't have to give BS a "fair hearing", you just like BS.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:47 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:45 am
No one is making a claim about a 256 old man. Skeptics can only respond to active claims, otherwise they would be arguing against their own created strawman arguments. That's why courts are adversarial. [/color]
Courts are often criticized for being adversarial, and not following the scientific method. Granted, justice would be impatient with the "particle of doubt" that remains, but perhaps there wouldn't be hundreds of innocent people on death row otherwise.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/innocence- ... -death-row
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Re: Li Ching Yuen; the fight's the thing

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:39 pm

We are competitive creatures, and we love a good fight. I would tune out of Wicked Tuna if they stopped showing the leader board.
Many of us enjoy coming to the skeptic's forum for a good fight. Others are here to help uncover some of the mysteries of life. I regard skepticism as a tool for learning, not a spectator sport. Don't get me wrong, competition is good in general, but we all know the downside of over-competitiveness, particularly in politics. In the context of an adversarial contest, I can understand my posts being misconstrued as trolling (for a fight) but that's not the intent.

So, friends, a little slack please; I'm not trolling, just flexing my intellectual muscles in my own way. If it annoys you, I'll acknowledge, and try to explain myself.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:40 pm

Nothing new with you, just a new excuse.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:51 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 4:40 pm
Nothing new with you, just a new excuse.
You seem to be proving my point.
Give it some thought.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:02 pm

If you ever gave things some thought you'd hear from me less.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:04 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:02 pm
If you ever gave things some thought you'd hear from me less.
This is truly a flame-forum to you.
Stretch your understanding a bit.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:21 pm

I do not suffer fools gladly, fool.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by OlegTheBatty » Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm

Gord wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:27 am
I lived to be 256 once, but then I stopped.
I am skeptical. I think it more likely that you lived to 16 16 times.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by TJrandom » Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm
Gord wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:27 am
I lived to be 256 once, but then I stopped.
I am skeptical. I think it more likely that you lived to 16 16 times.
But only in his addled mind...

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:59 am

landrew wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 3:47 pm
Courts are often criticized for being adversarial, and not following the scientific method.
That wasn't the point.

The point is that, in law, a defense lawyer cannot imply what the prosecution is claiming and then provide evidence and argument against that. That would be defending a strawman argument. The reverse is that a prosecutor cannot imply what the defendant did, as that would force the defense to argue against a self created strawman, anyway. Therefore the prosecution is required to clearly state what they are arguing "I put it to you, that between the hours of 2am and 3am you beat Mr Smith with the candlestick."

This is the same in skeptical review. I cannot read a fable about the Easter Bunny and then form claims that no one is making to me and then argue against them. That would be creating a strawman from a passive source. I have to wait for someone to specifically make the claim "There is a six foot high rabbit, that between the hours of 12am and 1 am hides chocolate eggs all gardens in Europe and the Amercas, using unkown transport methods"

No one is claiming the 256 year old man is real

(Also 256 is the Chinese "lucky eight" X 32 which is a bit of a hint)


Chinese Lucky Eight
Number 8People with the lucky number 8 have strong intuition and insight, so they have the potential to explore things undiscovered. In general,

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Gord » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:04 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:37 pm
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:40 pm
Gord wrote:
Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:27 am
I lived to be 256 once, but then I stopped.
I am skeptical. I think it more likely that you lived to 16 16 times.
But only in his addled mind...
That would be more like 8, 32 times.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:17 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:59 am
No one is claiming the 256 year old man is real
I don't believe he is real either. Really.
But I believe it does us good to discuss such mysteries and odd evidence; more than it does for us to get all up with torches and pitchforks.
I like the scientific method more than I like troll-killing, so I like to explore the bounds of our scientific understanding, sans the antagonism and unpleasantness that goes on in a flame-forum. Don't worry, I won't get upset and call you all a bunch of names; I'll just lose interest for awhile and stay away for a time.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 am

landrew wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:17 pm
Don't worry, I won't get upset and call you all a bunch of names; I'll just lose interest for awhile and stay away for a time.
Go for it. I'm too busy actually debunking BS to notice.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:02 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:13 am
landrew wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:17 pm
Don't worry, I won't get upset and call you all a bunch of names; I'll just lose interest for awhile and stay away for a time.
Go for it. I'm too busy actually debunking BS to notice.
But it would be a lot easier with a measure of good faith and tolerance for someone who thinks a little differently.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:07 am

landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:02 am
But it would be a lot easier with a measure of good faith and tolerance for someone who thinks a little differently.
[/quote]

You told all the Russian speaking members of this forum that "Russians are primitive" because you said so, without an iota of evidence.
.
You now demand good faith and tolerance.

You're not very smart are you?

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:33 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:07 am
landrew wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:02 am
But it would be a lot easier with a measure of good faith and tolerance for someone who thinks a little differently.
You told all the Russian speaking members of this forum that "Russians are primitive" because you said so, without an iota of evidence.
.
You now demand good faith and tolerance.

You're not very smart are you?

[/quote]
What would you like? A complete retraction? What sort of "evidence" would satisfy you? Hadn't we agreed to disagree?
We don't need to all have a group hug, but it seems to me that basic respect is a requirement here.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by gorgeous » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:35 pm

li doesn't look a day over 190 to me...
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by TJrandom » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 pm

This thread is now over 256 years old - when measured in sillyness-years.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:13 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 pm
This thread is now over 256 years old - when measured in sillyness-years.
I had a more interesting trip; examining all the evidence before I concluded it was silly.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:40 pm

landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:13 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 pm
This thread is now over 256 years old - when measured in sillyness-years.
I had a more interesting trip; examining all the evidence before I concluded it was silly.
I don`t believe that you travelled anywhere to examine any evidence. Please post a photocopy of your boarding passes.... Nor was any evidence presented here for examination. :roll:

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:56 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:40 pm
landrew wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:13 pm
TJrandom wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:15 pm
This thread is now over 256 years old - when measured in sillyness-years.
I had a more interesting trip; examining all the evidence before I concluded it was silly.
I don`t believe that you travelled anywhere to examine any evidence. Please post a photocopy of your boarding passes.... Nor was any evidence presented here for examination. :roll:
To each their own. I prefer to check it out before I puke all over it.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:41 pm

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."
But who gets to determine "extraordinary?"
That's a bit of a subjective term.

Just looking over the evidence and considering it, is not presenting evidence to support a claim.
If that's what you want, we'll need a bigger budget.
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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by TJrandom » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 pm

Kamil wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:39 am
I just came across the supposed legend-- ...
I note that this is all the evidence that was presented - so rather think that not much evidence is needed to refuse to take it seriously. There is no need to refute it as there is nothing there to refute.

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Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by landrew » Sun Oct 14, 2018 3:45 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 pm
Kamil wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 3:39 am
I just came across the supposed legend-- ...
I note that this is all the evidence that was presented - so rather think that not much evidence is needed to refuse to take it seriously. There is no need to refute it as there is nothing there to refute.
That's nice and neat. But I prefer to weigh all possible evidence before declaring it non-evidence. It doesn't make me woo-woo, I just feel I am able to form a better opinion as a result.
The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29565
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Li Ching Yuen, really over 200 years old?

Post by Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:20 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:55 pm
I note that this is all the evidence that was presented - so rather think that not much evidence is needed to refuse to take it seriously. There is no need to refute it as there is nothing there to refute.
I think that the nature of the poster who made this post also needs to be considered.

"Kamil" first came to our forum saying that Jesus must be real because people having Near Death Experiences (NDEs) only saw Jesus and not Mohammed. "Kamil" then said he was a Polish catholic in Poland.

This of course was complete rubbish and there are webpages of people claiming to have NDE and to have seen Mohammed and other Muslim angels, plus every other religion character under the sun. Kamil was simply lying to get attention.

I then point out that Kamil can't actually speak Polish and was posting in USA middle time, five minutes after Matt MSV7 made his posts. I also pointed out that they made the same spelling and grammar mistakes and copied the same sentences and used the same syntax. In fact it is just Matt MSV7 who had four sock-puppets going at one "Omniverse" "Anthony" "Kamil" and Matt MSV7".

It is always good to check out who is making the post, under the skeptic rule "The boy who cried wolf"
:D


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