If glob were real

How should we think about weird things?
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If glob were real

Post by mirror93 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 2:37 pm

I got some questions here, let's imagine the mythological figure and the whole story of glob was real and there was a glob and you were him

would that mean you would be omniscient?
would that mean you would be utterly alone forever?
would that means that an object created could only exist even if you, glob, were present to see it?
would that mean that whatever people you create would not be conscious as you, and no possibility of becoming a being like you?
would that mean you would create everyone? and constantly need to create objects?
Last edited by mirror93 on Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:01 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: If god was real

Post by ElectricMonk » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:25 pm

The only way to be omniscient would be to perceive events both in space and time: there is no way to derive the past from the present, nor to predict the future, since events are too multi-causal and chaotic.
So omniscience would be more akin to ability of omni-perception.

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Re: If god was real

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:38 pm

"If god was real"..............he wouldn't be anything we can imagine.....and certainly nothing we can observe other than: God appears to have created the universe and walked away.

Except you add: the "whole story" of god is real. In that case: which story? Then just read and apply.
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Re: If god was real

Post by Poodle » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:33 pm

If god was real, rabbits would wear bikinis.

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Re: If god was real

Post by Monster » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:46 pm

mirror93 wrote:I got some questions here, let's imagine the mythological figure and the whole story of god was real and there was a god and you were him...

would that mean you would be omniscient?
would that mean you would be utterly alone forever?
would that mean everything should be observed by you to exist? or some object created could only exist even if you, god, were present to see it?
would that mean that whatever people you create would be utterly unconscious with no chance of developing awareness of their own?
would that mean you would be everything and everyone? what about cause and effect? you create something, that something is not you anymore, and if you create another being, does this being would have a chance to develop his own awareness and then learn new knowledge, make a way to beat ur ass ?
Looks like you're dealing with omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience.

First of all, omnipotence is a logical impossibility, so we can forget that one.

An omnipresent creature would not simply be in all places at once, but it would be the universe. It can be located everywhere because it is everything.

Regarding omniscience, it completely does away with all free will, if this conjectural creature is a creator of sentient beings. If we're talking about a creator, then an omniscient being chose to create the universe where I'm typing these words, rather than a different universe. Free will doesn't exist and can't exist in such a place.
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Re: If god was real

Post by Aztexan » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:19 pm

If god was real, he'd still be an {!#%@}.
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Re: If god was real

Post by mirror93 » Thu Mar 08, 2018 6:48 pm

Monster wrote: An omnipresent creature would not simply be in all places at once, but it would be the universe. It can be located everywhere because it is everything.
But that's impossible too, the creature would have created the planets, and etc. this creature would not be the planets he created, it would remain the creature it is, God, he could not be in all places at once. so omnipresence is another logical impossibility
Monster wrote: Regarding omniscience, it completely does away with all free will, if this conjectural creature is a creator of sentient beings. If we're talking about a creator, then an omniscient being chose to create the universe where I'm typing these words, rather than a different universe. Free will doesn't exist and can't exist in such a place.
But it would be impossible for a god to think it all, and all the minimum details, even the words you type, that's impossible, such a being could not exist even as a possibility. And if the created is not the creator (Such as Picasso is not Mona Lisa), that means, the beings god created have a possibility to develop their own consciousness, be aware of possibilities god is not, since infinity is not real and what is created is finite and did not exist before, and surpass god awareness, even if god was the creator, because omniscience IMO is nonsense
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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:21 pm

I simply don't think you can take a character from fiction, who is given fictional powers and then try to apply real world logic to that character. There should be a skeptical buzz word for doing that.

The classical nonsense question about god is, if god can do anything, can god create a stone so heavy that he can't pick it up? There is no answer because we are working an a false premise to start with.
:D

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Re: If god was real

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:47 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I simply don't think you can take a character from fiction, who is given fictional powers and then try to apply real world logic to that character. There should be a skeptical buzz word for doing that.
I'll submit: "believers."

As to the rock thing, I read long ago that is a matter of language and rhetoric and not a "real" paradox. Just what does "all powerful" ........mean? Or, what does paradox mean???
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Re: If god was real

Post by Gord » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:23 am

Poodle wrote:If god was real, rabbits would wear bikinis.
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2021/20 ... 0b2c_b.jpg

Don't look into its cold soulless eyes. :|
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Re: If god was real

Post by Aztexan » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:00 am

How bout if god was real, dinosaurs would have beards?
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Re: If god was real

Post by Poodle » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:35 am

Gord wrote:
Poodle wrote:If god was real, rabbits would wear bikinis.
https://farm3.static.flickr.com/2021/20 ... 0b2c_b.jpg

Don't look into its cold soulless eyes. :|
I abase myself before the Supreme Being.


(PS ... In the entire Universe, only you, Gord, would go looking for that :D )

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Re: If god was real

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:47 am

Poodle wrote:
Gord wrote: (PS ... In the entire Universe, only you, Gord, would go looking for that :D )
In my mind.....the rabbits stood on their hind legs. Can't anthropomorphize too much...........
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Re: If god was real

Post by Gord » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:45 am

Poodle wrote:(PS ... In the entire Universe, only you, Gord, would go looking for that :D )
Then explain why there are so many of them on the internets!

Image
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Re: If god was real

Post by Poodle » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:05 am

Archetypes! They get everywhere.

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Re: If god was real

Post by OlegTheBatty » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:34 pm

. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: If god was real

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:40 pm

Gateway Arch leads the pack!
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Re: If god was real

Post by Nikki Nyx » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:49 pm

mirror93 wrote:I got some questions here, let's imagine the mythological figure and the whole story of god was real and there was a god and we were him...the One all one
One of my favorite ST:OS novels is The Wounded Sky by Diane Duane. The plot: The Federation develops a new type of hyperdrive based on "creative physics," in which there are not only three space dimensions (length, width, height), but also three time dimensions (inception, duration, termination). The Enterprise is chosen to test the new drive by transiting to the Lesser Magellanic. Use of the drive causes an anentropic universe to infringe into our entropic one, with potentially disastrous results, as you can imagine. (Bear with me...there is a point to this.)

The crew follows the lack of entropy to its source: a creature that is a sort of proto-god. They realize it is their presence that caused its self-awareness so, in keeping with the Prime Directive, they must correct their error. So they teach it to play a game...the one we're all playing. It's called "life." It's able to create a number of playing pieces (which are actually part of itself), and issues for them to experience. During the round, the piece doesn't know it's a god. Only at death does the piece return to awareness of its godhood.

Which neatly answers all your questions. "You" are not omniscient until the round is over, whereupon "you" are alone again until you play another round. "You" are able to develop self-awareness, but not the qualities of the god. At the same time, everything "you" do affects every other part of "you." (This is the kind of stuff Placid talks about perpetually, but the novel does a much better job of explaining the idea in keeping with science.)

Note: This is a pre-coffee post, so if anything I wrote need clarification, let me know. Meanwhile, I highly recommend the novel. It's well-researched and well-written, and the characterization is spot on.
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Re: If god was real

Post by Nikki Nyx » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:58 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The only way to be omniscient would be to perceive events both in space and time: there is no way to derive the past from the present, nor to predict the future, since events are too multi-causal and chaotic.
So omniscience would be more akin to ability of omni-perception.
Well said! Even if this is a strictly cause-and-effect universe, there are nearly always multiple variables at the "cause" end of it. Take a simple example: dropping a glass. Will it break? Depends on the material from which it's made and the quality of workmanship, plus the nature of the surface it lands on and from what height, and the angle at which it hits the surface. :mrgreen:
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Re: If god was real

Post by Nikki Nyx » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:58 pm

Poodle wrote:If god was real, rabbits would wear bikinis.
They do...at the Playboy Mansion. :P
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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:32 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:The only way to be omniscient would be to perceive events both in space and time: there is no way to derive the past from the present, nor to predict the future, since events are too multi-causal and chaotic.
So omniscience would be more akin to ability of omni-perception.
------------wrong...the past , present and future are occurring now on different levels of consciousness....I have had accurate dreams of my future events as have others....in out of body states people also can meet their past primitive self and more advanced future self...they often learn their more knowledgeable future self is helping them in this present......not chaotic...we create events with our thoughts, emotions, beliefs constantly... ----------------------seth---“The human race is a stage though which various forms of consciousness travel. Before you can be allowed into systems of reality that are more extensive and open, you must first learn to handle energy and see, through physical materialization, the concrete result of thought and emotion.”

“In more advanced systems, thoughts, and emotions are automatically and immediately translated into action, into whatever approximation of matter there exists. Therefore, the lessons must be taught and learned well. The responsibility for creation must be clearly understood.”
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: If god was real

Post by Nikki Nyx » Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:59 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I simply don't think you can take a character from fiction, who is given fictional powers and then try to apply real world logic to that character. There should be a skeptical buzz word for doing that.
There's an emoji... :banghead:

I agree, though. It's as futile as trying to explain Hogwarts' magic (Riddikulus!) or the third Matrix movie (in which Neo's Matrix powers suddenly worked in the "real" world).
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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:58 pm

gorgeous wrote:------------wrong...the past , present and future are occurring now on different levels of consciousness....
Make one accurate prediction for us. You can't, can you? :lol:
gorgeous wrote:seth---
Name any of Seth / Jane Robert's predictions that came true? Not one prediction came true. Did you forget again? :lol:
Seth / Jane Roberts wrote: the continents would rise out of the oceans in 2000

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Re: If god was real

Post by mirror93 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:48 pm

gorgeous wrote: ------------wrong...the past , present and future ̶a̶r̶e̶ ̶o̶c̶c̶u̶r̶r̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶n̶o̶w̶
how is it occuring "now" if 'now' is between the past and "future" *except the fact that the future didn't come yet*...
z11223333333.png
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.png
z12341111111.png
see? isn't that hard
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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:09 am

time as we know it is an illusion...doesn't exist...as we learn about multiple dimensions we will experience all time in the now moment...because our perceptions are limited so are our definitions...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: If god was real

Post by mirror93 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:44 am

gorgeous wrote:time as we know it is an illusion...doesn't exist...
no, time is real, but it isn't what you think it is. when I'm high on weed, my perception of time changes so much, time seems to slow down and etc... does that alter OBJECTIVE time? NO. Because perception is NOT reality. Your perception of time won't alter time, because time is objective. It is real, whether you like it or not.
gorgeous wrote: as we learn about multiple dimensions we will experience all time
Really, then show us any evidence of you experiencing "multiple dimensions", film that in a video, please.
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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:15 am

the greys have said they can stop time, reverse it , and speed it up
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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:06 am

gorgeous wrote:the greys have said they can stop time, reverse it , and speed it up
Really? Quote one of them by name. :lol:

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Re: If god was real

Post by Nikki Nyx » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:22 pm

gorgeous wrote:the greys have said they can stop time, reverse it , and speed it up
Big deal; we all can do those things.
STOP - Go to sleep. Alternately, go to the DMV, which is a self-contained anentropic universe.
REVERSE - "Fall back" in October; relive the same hour.
FORWARD - "Spring forward" in March; skip over an hour.
SPEED UP - Do something fun. Tempus will fugit right the {!#%@} outta there.
SLOW DOWN - Do something unenjoyable. Time won't pass no matter how far you pull over.
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Re: If god was real

Post by Poodle » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:08 pm

You DO realise, gorgeous, that stopping time would be an inescapable trap?

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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:08 pm

Poodle wrote:You DO realise, gorgeous, that stopping time would be an inescapable trap?
Actually, I didn't ever think about that. That's a really good point. :D

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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:13 pm

no....it would just start again.....I do recall during the remote viewing of the JFK assassination the viewer said time seemed to have slowed down during it...maybe the shock of thousands of minds on it caused it...
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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:15 pm

gorgeous wrote:no....it would just start again.....
That makes no sense. If Aliens froze time then how could an alien push the re start button?

You didn't think your latest load of crap through again.
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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:19 pm

idk....they have said it happens...and that we have the same abilities they have....during many abductions all activity around often stops including animals and insects....(similar to Marian apparitions)....they have said they can control all activity for miles around...
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Re: If god was real

Post by Matthew Ellard » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:22 pm

gorgeous wrote:idk....they have said it happens..
You never found any "grey" alien to quote remember?

You just made up this crap story to get attention.
:lol:

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Re: If god was real

Post by Bobbie the Pragmatist » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:01 pm

mirror93 wrote:I got some questions here, let's imagine the mythological figure and the whole story of god was real and there was a god and we were him...the One all one
I didn't read every post, but your post's headline is not what you intend. It should be in the next line.

If God were real

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Re: If god was real

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Bobbie the Pragmatist wrote:
mirror93 wrote:I got some questions here, let's imagine the mythological figure and the whole story of god was real and there was a god and we were him...the One all one
I didn't read every post, but your post's headline is not what you intend. It should be in the next line.

If God were real
Bobbie: please don't besmirch the field of pragmatism. What do you mean you post on a thread of less than one page and you don't respect the process enough to read/skim every post for its relevancy? SHAME!!!

What do you mean by the headline is not what Mirror intended? He might be wrong, or it might be better stated, but it is exactly what he intended. He wrote it.

"If God were real" should be the next line, what should have been the first line?===>you make no sense at all.

Heh, heh, in the field of what should be, I recognize I'm really a "strong" pragmatist. Weak pragmatism is an oxymoron.
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Re: If god was real

Post by SEG » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:58 pm

Monster wrote:Looks like you're dealing with omnipotence, omnipresence, and omniscience.

First of all, omnipotence is a logical impossibility, so we can forget that one.
Let's say for shits and giggles that the Christian god possesses both omnipotence and omniscience. That god is an impossibility, because of this reason. Say he knew with certainty that he was going to have chicken soup for lunch while watching Judge Judy tomorrow. He can't change his mind and do something different on the next day after he makes that decision, otherwise he would be wrong the day before he did it.

So if he can't change his mind on what is going to happen, he is not omnipotent. He can't have it both ways.

See from 9:20 on this video:
“There are no known non-biblical references to a historical Jesus by any historian or other writer of the time during and shortly after Jesus's purported advent.” His so-called life was a farce.

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Re: If god was real

Post by bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:16 am

He changed his mind. I don't see any conundrum at all. So limited in time, space, and causality you hoomans are.

The standard trope is Can God create a Rock he can't lift? This goes to a limitation of language and human cognition: Of Course God can. See?
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Re: If god was real

Post by gorgeous » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:04 am

variations of each action and thought occur on multiple dimensions...can change the past and future as obe'ers know........
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.