Oil pulling

A skeptical look at medical practices
Nabarun Ghoshal
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Re: I challenge you

Postby Nabarun Ghoshal » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:46 am

Rod wrote:
NeroXIV wrote:
Molly Bloom wrote:Try the oil pulling. I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.


Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!


Rational thinking needs a scientific bent of mind which still most people are lacking in.

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Re: I challenge you

Postby Gord » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:42 pm

Rod wrote:
NeroXIV wrote:
Molly Bloom wrote:Try the oil pulling. I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.


Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.
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Nabarun Ghoshal
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Re: I challenge you

Postby Nabarun Ghoshal » Sun May 02, 2010 2:15 am

Gord wrote:
Rod wrote:
NeroXIV wrote:
Molly Bloom wrote:Try the oil pulling. I want to hear from every one of you how stupid it is after about 2 weeks.

My sister tried it for two weeks. It didn't do anything for her. It's stupid.


Yes, I agree. I'm going to stop, it's a waste of time - I'd rather use the sesame oil I'm using for my cooking and save myself the money!

I'm amazed at how some people manage to make themselves believe that this stuff works - how come some people claim oil-pulling whitens their teeth and it's had no effect on mine? Aren't all humans' teeth made of the same stuff??!

I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.


Where did you hear it? Was it aired by some carpenters' enterprise?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby numan » Mon May 03, 2010 5:03 pm

Nabarun Ghoshal wrote:I think it is better to follow the medical science that has relieved mankind of a lot of owes in the last 100 years and is still engaged in further studies to find out more effective methods of treatment of diseases.

All the points you make are good ones, but you (surprisingly!) ignore the evil effects capitalist exploitation has had on medicine. Here in North America, medicine is big business, and the purpose of this business is to make money, and not to help people. People are brainwashed by the big pharmaceutical companies and medical suppliers to do things which not only do not help but which harm! More profits that way! The Hippocratic Oath is a dead letter.

So yes, scientific medicine is to be respected, but capitalist medicine? Definitely not! Let the buyer beware!

Our medical system is said to have been reduced to "knives and poisons." There is some truth to that.

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Re: I challenge you

Postby Gord » Tue May 04, 2010 5:00 am

Nabarun Ghoshal wrote:
Gord wrote:I hear George Washington's were carved out of cherry wood.


Where did you hear it? Was it aired by some carpenters' enterprise?

No. MADtv, I think.
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Re: Oil pulling - want to try an experiment?

Postby matthewcornell » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:09 pm

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post. I'm skeptical of the claims, but I'm willing to try it out as an experiment. Is anyone interested joining me on Edison (http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/)? My periodontist, who keeps his mind open (thought doesn't let his brain fall out :-) hadn't heard of it, but his top-of-the-head thought was that it might make sense (I forget his rationale). I'll ask my excellent hygienist next month about the risks, though they sound minimal given the above discussion. (Dental side note: I'm running another personal experiment, "adopt a new oral care regime," at http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/experiments/show/149)

Cheers!

matt

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Mon Jun 14, 2010 3:11 pm

numan wrote:So yes, scientific medicine is to be respected, but capitalist medicine? Definitely not! Let the buyer beware!

So, what about big sCAM with their billion-dollar industry?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby lagoonal » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:51 pm

Some of you are honestly really hilarious in your stern denial of anything natural. Do I believe oil pulling can help you rid the most devastating disease. No. But do I have these diseases? No. Because the guy above comes back with his NON scientific view on oil pulling now we should all believe him. It's as if skeptics are okay believing skeptics yet they cannot handle when someone that is a so called 'believer' presents his or her benefits. They should be completely ignored in your world. Holistic medicine came along a lot sooner than any sort of pharma concoction and it does have to be said just about every pharma patent is from a plant or extract that came from nature. You people need to get a clue. Your science is refined natural therapy. Now it is a BIG business of crooks and false claims.

As a student of history I find it very humorous that all of you proponents of science forget that it is the modern world that has introduced most of our diseases to the original cultures. That simply cannot be argued. I am a half and half here. Meaning half science and half natural. I just find some of you to be completely redundant and obscured.

But I must say oil pulling has worked wonders along with sea salt therapies for my mouth. Indeed, oil pulling has made my teeth a shade whiter, nothing extreme, but it is indeed noticeable. I oil pull once every couple days or so. I guess I could notice that my mouth felt better after about a month. And it very much helps when I drink alcohol hard and the oral parts feel terrible the day after. I'm oil pulling now lol! Anyway, this therapy DEFINITELY has oral benefits whether you want to believe I don't care. But come on. If you have teeth problems you have diet problems.

This stuff isn't going to FIX YOUR LIFE IMO. You need to get those minerals and vitamins, too. Strange things happen in this world. I don't have a debilitating disease and I have never had to use this as such. But with regular sea salt washes and oil pulling I feel very comfortable that I am doing the best I can for my teeth. I do have an upper back wisdom tooth that needs to be kept in check because a small part of it cracked so this definitely helps kill bacteria in my experience. I use organic sunflower oil.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby lagoonal » Sat Jun 26, 2010 4:58 pm

I don't see an edit button so I must say this: your mind is your most powerful tool. If you go into anything dead set on failing you will indeed fail. Just a word of help. You cannot possibly sit there oil pulling while thinking negative thoughts about oil pulling and how it is all bull**** and then expect things to be perfect. Try not thinking about it at all. Try thinking hey I am trying to do something right for my body and it is going to help. And give it time. If you feel nothing has worked after a month then think about other ways to help yourself. And start with your diet. Whole foods, sprouted foods, minerals like magnesium and calcium in balance, exercise, etc. It has been researched and documented how negative thoughts can turn our body's PH into a catastrophe. Keep that in mind. Your body's PH and food you eat are intrinsically linked. Simple Lemon water is one of the most alkaline and healthy detox's you could ever hope for.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Gord » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:41 pm

lagoonal wrote:Some of you are honestly really hilarious in your stern denial of anything natural. Do I believe oil pulling can help you rid the most devastating disease. No. But do I have these diseases? No. Because the guy above comes back with his NON scientific view on oil pulling now we should all believe him. It's as if skeptics are okay believing skeptics yet they cannot handle when someone that is a so called 'believer' presents his or her benefits. They should be completely ignored in your world. Holistic medicine came along a lot sooner than any sort of pharma concoction and it does have to be said just about every pharma patent is from a plant or extract that came from nature. You people need to get a clue. Your science is refined natural therapy. Now it is a BIG business of crooks and false claims.

Skeptics don't particularly care who makes extraordinary claims, we care about the evidence. Show us the evidence, rather than making unsupported claims, and we'll all look at it.
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Bunyip » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:42 am

Some oils are very good indeed and there is a lo tof evidence to support many of the claims of health benefits.

I use only extra virgin olive oil in cooking. I also take fish oil as soil for arthritis and heart,.recommended by my doctor and bought from my local pharmacy.

I'm also put in mind of the film "Lorenzo's Oil". 'based on the true story' of Augusto and Michaela Odone.

Augusto Odone (born May 4, 1933) and Michaela Teresa Murphy Odone (January 10, 1939 – June 10, 2000) are the parents of Lorenzo Odone (May 29, 1978 – May 30, 2008), a child afflicted with the illness adrenoleukodystrophy (ALD). They became famous for discovering a treatment using Lorenzo's oil, for their son's "incurable" illness, and this quest was recounted in the film Lorenzo's Oil (1992). [1]

In recognition of the parents' work, Augusto Odone has received an honorary doctorate from the University of Stirling. He continues to raise funds and drive the scientific task force known as The Myelin Project. Michaela Odone battled cancer for some time, and finally died of lung cancer at 61.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_odone


Taking any new medicine or supplement is fine,if it is supported by evidence. Does it matter if the person is not being swindled out of money they cannot afford and are not harming themselves?. In my opinion, there is a limit to which anyone can or should go to protect adults from the consequences of their own behaviour.
Man is not so much a rational animal as a rationalising one.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:10 pm

Bunyip wrote:I'm also put in mind of the film "Lorenzo's Oil". 'based on the true story' of Augusto and Michaela Odone.

I don't know the movie, but did you actually read up on the evidence supporting Lorenzo's oil?

Bunyip wrote:Does it matter if the person is not being swindled out of money they cannot afford and are not harming themselves?

That seems to be a fine attitude for CAM practitioners, but real medical professionals do have an ethical code…

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby exgringo » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:39 am

If it supposedly "pulls" toxic metals out of the mouth you could test the oil before and after the "swishing" using a mass spectrometer.

Also there is some evidence of olive oil waste being used for heavy metal adsorption in industrial applications.
http://www.aseanfood.info/Articles/11017594.pdf

Don't know if the same principles could be applied?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Sat Aug 21, 2010 7:37 pm

exgringo wrote:Don't know if the same principles could be applied?

Given that your oral cavity is chock full with heavy metals, sur–oh, wait…

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby cigana » Tue Aug 31, 2010 9:51 am

Dear all,

I am a professional scientist and have recently started oil pulling (about 2.5 weeks ago). My motivation was to try to reduce daily tooth pain, which my dentist has not been able to help me with. I am truly amazed by the results - my tooth ache has reduced by about 60%. But other than that the small bumps on the back of my arms (keratosis pilaris) have reduced by about 80%. This was something totally unexpected and I had no idea oil pulling would produce changes in my body other than in my mouth. How this works I have no idea.

Other changes I've noticed are an increase in the quality of my facial skin (smoother, cleaner), reduced bags under my eyes and no more "sleep" in my eyes when I awake.

I am looking forward to more success.

If anyone out there has problems which may be helped by oil pulling, please don't be put off by the lack of medical trials - these are unlikely to ever happen given the amount of skepticism present on this website!

I would also add that I follow what I believe to be a very healthy diet (all unprocessed whole grains with lots of vegetables [particularly green leafy], pulses and some fruit). This may be one reason why oil pulling works for some and not others.

Cheers,

Cigana

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Tue Aug 31, 2010 10:19 am

Allright, let's play a game of "spot that logical fallacy"!

cigana wrote:I am a professional scientist

Argument from authority.

cigana wrote:I am truly amazed by the results - my tooth ache has reduced by about 60%.

Appealing to anecdotal evidence.

cigana wrote:But other than that the small bumps on the back of my arms (keratosis pilaris) have reduced by about 80%.

Appeal to anecdotal evidence.

cigana wrote:Other changes I've noticed are an increase in the quality of my facial skin (smoother, cleaner), reduced bags under my eyes and no more "sleep" in my eyes when I awake.

And even more appeals to anecdotal evidence. Plus, how would the severity of sleep eyes be any reasonable outcome to measure? Just curious…

cigana wrote:I am looking forward to more success.

Falling for expectation bias.

cigana wrote:If anyone out there has problems which may be helped by oil pulling, please don't be put off by the lack of medical trials - these are unlikely to ever happen given the amount of skepticism present on this website!

Hmm. Here we have a straw man, an appeal to rebellion, and an appeal to "absence of evidence is no evidence of absence". Nice one!

cigana wrote:I would also add that I follow what I believe to be a very healthy diet (all unprocessed whole grains with lots of vegetables [particularly green leafy], pulses and some fruit). This may be one reason why oil pulling works for some and not others.

And of course a nice naturalistic fallacy to top it off, plus a cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Not bad for starters, maybe jam a stronger appeal to popularity in there and it's nearly perfect.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby cigana » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:05 am

Dear Graumagier,

Not quite sure what the "logical fallacy" is - could you explain?

--Argument from authority.

The reason I put this in was to encourage those who might not try it otherwise. If what you are suggesting is that I'm suggesting by putting this in that it lends weight to the idea that OP might work, then you'd be right in your criticism. For those of you reading this - please ignore the fact that I say I am a scientist.

--Appealing to anecdotal evidence.

Yes.

--Appealing to anecdotal evidence.

Yep.

--And even more appeals to anecdotal evidence.

Right.

--Plus, how would the severity of sleep eyes be any reasonable outcome to measure? Just curious…

No idea. Just thought I'd mention all changes I've noticed.

--Falling for expectation bias.

I certainly am.

--Hmm. Here we have a straw man, an appeal to rebellion,

Yes a straw man and an appeal to rebellion. That was my real aim in posting - to potentially help people. I thought that since it has helped me it would be a shame if others didn't at least try it for themselves, and this post was simply about encouraging others. It is no proof whatsoever, just an encouragement for other to try it.

--and an appeal to "absence of evidence is no evidence of absence". Nice one!

Yes I think so.

--And of course a nice naturalistic fallacy to top it off,

I think there's sufficient evidence in the literature that whole grains, fruits and vegetables constitute a healthy diet. Regardless I mention it in order to potentially give people a possible understanding of why it might work in some cases and not others.

--plus a cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Sorry don't know what this means

--Not bad for starters

As what? What am I claiming my post to be that it isn't?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:34 am

cigana wrote:As what? What am I claiming my post to be that it isn't?

Nothing. I was just pointing out the reasons why your anecdote is neither evidence of the efficacy of oil pulling, nor a reasonable datapoint to even start to suspect that there is such efficacy. In summary, I'm not sure why you would post such a thing on a scientifically oriented board, since there is absolutely nothing scientific about it.
Last edited by Graumagier on Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby cigana » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:19 pm

I see, thanks for clarifying Graumagier. Just to let people know my reasons, here they are:

A while back I'd considered OP as treatment for my keratosis pilaris as I'd heard on another forum that it had cured some people's KP. I was very skeptical and negan a search on the internet to find out if there was any reasonable science to back this up. I came across this forum and it helped convince me not to bother trying. The other convincing factors were that every OP website I came across appeared to be written by cranks and it all felt "made up".

Only after my sister had success with helping her toothache did I try out of desperation. I was so astonished by the results I again went online to try to find out if anybody had any idea how this could work - I wanted to know if I could even improve my "technique" and what other benefits it could have - if oil in my mouth had affected the skin on my arms, what else might it be doing? Again I came across this forum, but with the benefit of having actually tried it for myself. Thinking of people like my former self, who was put off by forums like this, I decided to write a post, in the hope of encouraging those who might actually benefit to give it a try. I also wanted to mention my diet as I feel that has itself reduced the keratosis somewhat, and it might be a reason why some people have not had success with OP.

By the way, for anyone out there who finds this works for them - do you know of any scientifically-oriented forums where these kind of techniques are discussed?

Thanks. Cig

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:59 pm

Now look. I'm not going to argue with you about the experiences you made. But I want to point out that your case is a perfect example for a) the placebo effect, b) mixing various treatments (especially as a "last resort", even though your conditions are fairly mild) and attributing a positive course to the least credible one even in the absence of any reasonable evidence to support that conclusion and c) for entirely failing to comprehend the possible mechanism of action of an alleged treatment and wildly extrapolating from that misunderstanding. So far, an interesting example and in that context not at all misplaced in a sceptical forum.

cigana wrote:By the way, for anyone out there who finds this works for them - do you know of any scientifically-oriented forums where these kind of techniques are discussed?

As soon as you start to investigate oil pulling scientifically you realize that there is no credible mechanism of action. Combine that with the virtual absence of published data except for oral hygiene (with very unimpressive results) and you pretty much have a nonexistent effect.

Just out of curiosity, what line of work are you in?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby cigana » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:32 pm

(a) could well be
(b) I changed to a whole-food-based diet 11 months ago. It could be that virtually all of the changes that diet could bring about have happened to occur since oil pulling (in the last two weeks). Nothing else I can think of might be called a treatment (this is a recurring problem and I've tried other treatments without success over the years but not recently). That doesn't mean it's not something else I haven't considered, you are right.
(c) I have entirely failed to comprehend the possible mechanism, yes. Does an expression of hope by one individual represent an "extrapolation"? I wouldn't really say so.

--So far, an interesting example and in that context not at all misplaced in a sceptical forum.

Agreed.

--As soon as you start to investigate oil pulling scientifically you realize that there is no credible mechanism of action.

If you say so.

--Combine that with the virtual absence of published data except for oral hygiene (with very unimpressive results) and you pretty much have a nonexistent effect.

And that is why it's unlikely to be scientifically studied any time soon.

--Just out of curiosity, what line of work are you in?

Physics

------------------------------------------------------------------

For anybody out there who has keratosis pilaris and who would like to experiment, try the following: eat a diet based virtually completely on whole foods, that is unprocessed grains with plenty of vegetables and fruit. Make sure you eat at least 100g of raw leafy green vegetables per day and 300g of cooked. Supplement with vitamin B12 and 1-2g of fish oil and 0.2g of evening primrose oil. Most of this is based on the diets recommended by Dr's J.Furhman and J.McDougall. Do this for six months, then try oil pulling once daily, with cold-pressed sunflower oil. That's what I did and it seems to have made a huge difference. What I am saying does not constitute a proof. It is merely a piece of advice from one human being to another, based purely on my personal experiences. I have not gone to great lengths to think through my arguments and I am not a biological/medical scientist, just reporting what it is that I think has worked for me. If it doesn't work, fine, if it does, great.

I will probably no longer check this forum regularly and am not particularly inclined to defend or promote my posts.

Best wishes,

Cigana

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Tue Aug 31, 2010 2:46 pm

cigana wrote:(c) I have entirely failed to comprehend the possible mechanism, yes. Does an expression of hope by one individual represent an "extrapolation"? I wouldn't really say so.

Extrapolation from a perceived effect, possibly random, possibly purely subjective, to a whole lot of other effects was what I was referring to.

As I said I don't want to argue about the specific experience you made, I just wanted to point out possible points of error or misinterpretation/-perception. Since you seem to be aware of most of them you're of course free to stick to your opinion.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Blacksamwell » Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:20 pm

cigana wrote:What I am saying does not constitute a proof. It is merely a piece of advice from one human being to another, based purely on my personal experiences. I have not gone to great lengths to think through my arguments and I am not a biological/medical scientist, just reporting what it is that I think has worked for me. If it doesn't work, fine, if it does, great.


Well, at least you're clear about your lack of evidence.

But doesn't this make your advice almost worthless? Advice from a well informed source who's validated the claims would be valuable and provide actionable guidelines for seeking better health results. But this...?

If I said "Well, I don't have any proof, but putting a grapefruit in my bum has cured me of [fill in the blank]", would you be inclined to begin adding some extra citrus and some KY jelly to your grocery list? Would you actually consider a Sunkist enema without any more evidence than my baseless claim?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Gord » Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:46 pm

cigana wrote:... please don't be put off by the lack of medical trials - these are unlikely to ever happen given the amount of skepticism present on this website!

No, please, go right ahead and perform medical trials. I'd like to see the results.

(Although why a skeptics website would prevent you from doing them, I have no idea. Is there something you're leaving out? Something that would prevent you from conducting medical trials if it came to light? Yes, that must be it, it's the only logical conclusion.)

cigana wrote:I will probably no longer check this forum regularly and am not particularly inclined to defend or promote my posts.

Oh, well, never mind then. :?

"Professional scientist" my fat Greek arse. Make that more of an "anecdotal hit-and-runner."
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby NeroXIV » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:01 pm

Haha, that exchange made my day! Nice fallacy breakdown, Graumagier. Pearls before swine, I guess.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby JJM » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:04 pm

cigana wrote:... By the way, for anyone out there who finds this works for them - do you know of any scientifically-oriented forums where these kind of techniques are discussed? Thanks. Cig
To you, what constitutes "scientifically-oriented?"

Early in this thread, the evidence for oil-pulling was presented and analyzed, and found scientifically lacking. It was also deemed an unlikely remedy based on consideration of physiology. What more do you want?

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Graumagier » Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:53 am

JJM wrote:What more do you want?

"I just wanna believe"…

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby matthewcornell » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:26 pm

Thanks again for the great discussion, everyone. We have someone testing it on Edison, the Think, Try, Learn experimenter's journal (http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/): http://edison.thinktrylearn.com/experiments/show/183

It kicked up a little back-and-forth about how to make it a more valid experiment, which motivated me to write up a little design to test it. I'd love your comments. It is:

What's a Good Experimental Design to Test "Oil Pulling"?
http://www.matthewcornell.org/blog/2010 ... lling.html

Happy experimenting!

matt

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby exgringo » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:09 pm

1) Test saliva for heavy metals.
2) Test oil (before swishing) for heavy metals.
3) Test oil (after swishing) for heavy metals.

Use modern testing equipment and techniques to compare before and after oil for metals.
(you can spit on the grass if you want, but that has nothing to do with scientific method)

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby JJM » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:23 pm

exgringo wrote:1) Test saliva for heavy metals.
2) Test oil (before swishing) for heavy metals.
3) Test oil (after swishing) for heavy metals. ...
Your suggestion is quite simple and effective; at the same time it is too sophisticated for detoxification enthusiasts.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Lamasa1 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 11:19 pm

The effects of oil pulling on plaque induced gingivitis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19336860

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Gord » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:52 am

Lamasa1 wrote:The effects of oil pulling on plaque induced gingivitis:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19336860

Thanks.

Here's an online PDF called Oil pulling – Unraveling the path to mystic cure (from the J. Int Oral Health 2010) which seems to use the linked study as a source:

Another study conducted by Asokan et al (2008) showed a definitive reduction in the Streptococcus mutans count in plaque and saliva after oil pulling therapy.9

9. Asokan S, Rathan J, Muthu M.S, Rathna Prabhu V, Emmadi P, Raghuraman, Chamundeswari;Effect of oil pulling on Streptococcus mutans count in plaque and saliva using Dentocult SM Strip mutans test: A randomized, controlled, triple-blind study. J Indian Soc Pedod Prevent Dent – March 2008; 12-16.
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Student2_9 » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:43 pm

First, I must say that I am very disappointed with the reasoning involved in this thread, on both sides of the issue. So many assumptions!
Regarding kebod's personal experience: This is interesting, and worth noting, but only anecdotally, as it proves nothing. Personal experience is just that -- personal. You cannot, and should not, impose that on others and expect acceptance, regardless of whether you are convinced of your experience's authenticity. This is an agreement we must follow out of a mutual respect and objectivity.
Regarding ShellyD99's grass experiment: This is based entirely on hearsay, and, also, proves nothing. It hinges entirely on your mother being told by a third party that the spent oil killed grass; this poses several flaws. One: How is this third party to be believed? This person could've been exaggerating or outright fibbing, which leads to the second problem: What if oil pulling is, in fact, effective at somehow removing toxins from the mouth, yet those toxins are not harmful vegetation? Etcetera, etcetera.
Reading this post, I see a general air of out-of-hand dismissal, which is infinitely dangerous, as much as blind acceptance, if not more so. Gullibility goes both ways: your perception is just as susceptible to cynicism and prejudices as it is over-optimism and straw-grasping. If one is to stay objective, these are pitfalls which must be avoided at all costs, whether you're seeking to vindicate, or debunk (and, since we are remaining so objective, should we ever seek to do one instead of the other? :o ). I quote the forum's credo: promoting science and critical thinking. Well, this kind of scoffing rejection is far out of line with that standard. The scientific method demands we suspend our disbelief when investigating a hypothesis, just as critical thinking demands we suspend our ego.
Case in point, in my research of oil pulling, my first thought was the obvious: How could oil possibly "pull" toxins from the mouth? From what I've read, the basic explanation is, the oil's acid binds to these "toxins" and leaches them from the gums; nowhere have I seen mention of veins beneath the tongue until reading kebod's post. As several have pointed out, there are flaws in this model, and I agree with this, as far as my uneducated understanding of the mouth will allow. However, simultaneously, I've read a multitude of subjective (though unsolicited) reports involving tangible results that cannot be immediately dismissed as placebo or circumstance. One subjective case report is, in itself, dismissible; many, however, demands further investigation. Which begs the question: Could there be some other, unknown mechanism at play in oil pulling?
From what has been stated here, that's impossible, but this too is flawed logic, as it assumes that all is known in regards to oil pulling, which is simply not true -- have there been any studies of oil pulling? And furthermore, any reliable ones? As far as I know, there have been none; my research has turned up only speculation and assumptions, again, on both sides of the issue. No, there is a big, gaping unknown in regards to this remedy, and the wise skeptic will always consider the unknown, and draw conclusions accordingly.
So, in light of what has been said here and what I've encountered in my research on the issue, I would suspend judgment on oil pulling's validity until a sound scientific study can be done. While the purported mechanism of action is certainly questionable, there remain too many unknowns, as well as too many interesting case-reports, to draw a reliably objective conclusion.

Edit:
Silly me. I only read the first page of this thread, unaware of the other five. Apparently, there have been studies done, as evinced by the later posts, but still, I stand by my conclusion: there is currently not enough evidence to make judgment either way.
Last edited by Student2_9 on Tue Apr 05, 2011 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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KnaveOfHearts
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby KnaveOfHearts » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:01 pm

Landrew?
"All life is only a set of pictures in the brain, among which there is no difference betwixt those born of real things and those born of inward dreamings, and no cause to value the one above the other."
— H.P. Lovecraft

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Gord
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Gord » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:13 am

KnaveOfHearts wrote:Landrew?


Yes?

Edit: I mean no! No I'm not.

Edit 2: Wait, what was the question again?
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Cesard » Wed May 11, 2011 8:02 pm

Just some more/new grist for the mill..

Here is a link to a scientific explanation of the benefits of oil pulling (swishing would be the more correct term, as the oil doesn't actually "pull" anything):

http://www.jonbarron.org/detox/nl110404 ... g-immunity

Cheers!
Bill

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby healthpromoter » Sun May 15, 2011 5:29 pm

it seems to me that there is a pretty big difference between critical thinking and saying something is "hokey" based on lack of experience/information.
while there is nothing wrong with being skeptical of things one does not know about, would it possibly be an appropriate approach to learn about the thing? Perhaps even try it to understand what all the fuss is about and why people have been doing it for hundreds of years, that is a virtual free form of self care that leads to health?

Here is some more info for the tool box by an incredible Integrative Medicine Doctor.

http://www.preventionandhealing.com/art ... Russia.pdf

http://www.preventionandhealing.com/

tess
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby tess » Sat May 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Hi my name is Tess and love the chance to talk about my experience
on oil pulling.. i started oil pulling abot 3 years ago. reason was i heard somone speak about it on our local radio. i was very interested as i suffered for about 20 years with mouth ulcers, could have 4 /5 at one time, doctors were no help whats so ever and i bought everthing i could to help it.. so i had nothing to lose by trying the oil pulling.. so i did. 3 years later i still doing it and never miss a morning. i get up most mornings at 6 to have some privacy while doing it.. my ulcers have gone. sometimes the reapper, but never get painful, or bother me, my skin is so much better and i feel better then have done in years.. i use Udo's choice only.. its all natural stuff.. i also take the udo' with my food.. i am 100% that it sorted my ulcers..

Theis and L0gic
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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Theis and L0gic » Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:45 am

So Im new, i signed up just to post this. I would like a more through-out logical way of thinging about this subject. Which of course will try to do myself, i know the subject should have died out about now but it isn't.

First of all, it is woo, fantastic and what ever you wanna call something that has nothing to do with science. I have read lots about oil pulling during the last days, and much of it seems simply; not true.

So what is obviously not true:
Oil pulling does not help your metabolism (directly), as that process is in the liver. And having oil in the mouth would not help your liver (directly).
Oil pulling cures cancer, AIDS etc. Again not true, if it did we would have seen significant more research and objective testing on oil pulling. (note: it might help though, but not cure)
Oil pulling creates some kind osmose that practically sucks toxics and heavy metals out of your body. IF anything this is where my woo alarm kicks me in the balls. While i can believe in osmose as it is welknown, i can hardly believe anything that just state "toxic" and yes that is the only description of what-ever-it-is-supposed-to-suck-out. Further-more i haven't ever heard that any other liqued than water that can actually create osmose.

note1: if osmose did work with oil, it would be possible to use the oil anywhere on the body, like the ancient greek atleats did.

So why do people keep pushing it:
If so many things are obviously not true, how come some people keep stating that it is real.
Either it is based on some religious fanatisme or there is some kind of thruth between all the nonsense.

So what could be true:
Oil pulling might be able to loosen non-body material in your mouth which you is later to spit out (highly unlikely, and oil wouldn't be the best for that job)
Oil pulling, due to amount time swishing, it might be able to activate enough salvira to have some kind of healthy effect, but im not sure which and why.
Some kinds of oils are known to have anti-bacterial effects much like tea tree oil, so having something that kill bacterias in your mouth for 20 minuttes could have a possitive effect.
I have seen some studies that indicate that a good immune system in the mouth makes a person over-all healthier.


This of course my logic and what i have found most likely in my search through the internet. The biggest problem i see to this threatment (if it is that) is that it's surrounded by mystic and (kinda) religious fanatisme. Another issue; it seems that all those that says it works simple can't prove anything, and generally the site oilpulling.com is just obscure with no credibility what so ever.

Sorry for my bad english, i hope it doesn't course to much pain to read or my ability to argue. Except for that, please try to pull this post a part, as i believe i can defend most of this.

Btw i intend to try the oil pulling, and will of course (?) post pictures and write a journal, but since i have all the bad habbits (smoking, drinking, sugar, no to little green stuff, not much excercise) i don't think i will get the best results.

Theis.

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Re: Oil pulling

Postby Pyrrho » Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:03 am

Oil pulling remains the most popular subject in search engine results that brings people to this forum. Who woulda thunk it.
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