Shared DMT Experiences a skeptical look

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Shen1986
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Shared DMT Experiences a skeptical look

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Apr 27, 2015 6:13 am

Shared DMT Experiences a skeptical look:

I am always fascinated with DMT and the experiences it brings. In my own youth I did run some experiments with it, not on me of course but on some friends who were eager to try some drugs for recreation purposes. Actually these experiences were the ones who in the end made me skeptical of the paranormal and that NDE or other form of consciousness are some gateway to the paranormal worlds. Now I have found this DMT experience and decided to have a skeptical look at it. Its actually one of those rare DMT experiences where those who took DMT claim they had the same experience and have shared it and thus came to believe that they have entered some other dimension using DMT. The whole story can be found here:
http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... xperience/

I will here point out problems why I do not believe the conclusion of the author of this article that they visited some different plane of existence using DMT:

1. Problem: They took DMT which is a strong hallucinogenic and a drug. Its odd that drugs would open a gateway to other worlds in the first place because they were not dead or not even near-death. Second thing is that they took a heavy dose in it the hallucination can be really strong:

The friend who provided the DMT, whom I’ll refer to as Alec, said he was giving us each a heavy dose. Unaware of what constituted a normal dose, I didn’t think much when I saw he was weighing them out to “0.05” grams.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/2/

2. Problem: The user is not a heavy drug user however he uses drugs on a normal basis. He had hallucinations before but this was more stronger then those he had before. However these are still hallucinations:

1. I’m not a heavy drug user. I smoke an exorbitant amount of marijuana on a daily basis, yes; but the proverbial “gateway” to the “heavy {!#%@}” has always been narrow. Other than pot, I’ve done psilocybin mushrooms twice, LSD four times, and salvia divinorum three times. I wasn’t foreign to hallucinogens prior to this experience.

However, none of them have really made me hallucinate. I’m a very rational person, and tend have a natural resistance to that aspect of hallucinogens. While I’ve had my visual world altered by them, I’d hardly call them hallucinations. They’re more like visual distortions, akin to that which can be applied to images in Photoshop. And I’ve always had control over them (e.g. “No, James, that salt-shaker isn’t really melting. You’re tripping acid, remember?”)


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/2/

3. Problem: He was brought up a Christian that means his worldview even when he is now a atheist could have influenced his DMT experience:

2. While I was brought up Christian, I’ve been an atheist since eleven or twelve years of age.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/2/

4. Problem: The whole story he describes is made out of his memories alone and we know how memories work. He could have filled the blanks with additional information. Also it is vital to remember he was drugged during it:

3. The following recount of my experience with DMT is going to sound like some crazy, far-out {!#%@}. It is. But I promise you, none of it is exaggerated. It is exactly what I remember seeing. No more, no less.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/2/

5. Problem: Here we see that the DMT trip is just a strong hallucination:

This was about 10-15 seconds into the DMT experience.

Peering about, I realized that my friend’s apartment, the walls of which were laden with those trippy posters only stoners and college freshmen buy, was a horrible place to do this drug. I looked at the monkey poster on the wall in front of me, dumbfounded by the vividness with which every detail became animated.
For authentic reenactment, smoke DMT now.

The top monkey holding the tap as brew gushed into the beer-bong, bopping his head in sync with the vibrations of his headphones, foam dripping everywhere. The middle monkey holding the beer bong with his left hand, spinning his right in a rhythmic manner, smiling in such a way that suggested his awareness of my disbelief. The bottom monkey taking the endless beer bong like a champ, the pupils of his bloodshot eyes spinning in opposite directions, the stars rotating around his head just like a cartoon.

Even though the poster was about ten feet across the room, I felt the foamy beer landing all over me as it overflowed from the top of the bong. Fighting against the irrational idea that I was indeed soaked with the beer of three partying cartoon monkeys, I was certain I had pissed my pants; there was no other rational explanation for why I was feeling this sensation of wetness all over.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/3/

6. Problem: Here we again see three things. First it’s a hallucination and not a real thing. He did not piss his pants and second his friends were talking to him during the hallucination. Its no wonder that they had a shared DMT when they were talking to each other during it. The third point is that the DMT trip was quite a chaos for him and even the author acknowledges that. So how can we know for sure what he really does remember and what is filled with fake memories?:

“I PISSED MY PANTS!” I cried, “I PISS… I THINK I’M PISSING RIGHT NOW!”

My friends were successful in reminding me that I was tripping, and I’m happy to report I was in fact not actively pissing my pants (which was a relief – even among the chaos of the trip, I was level minded enough to fear the humiliation of pissing all over my friend’s new couch).

My point being that DMT’s hallucinogenic effects aren’t limited to the visual realm. It extends through the auditory and sensual realms as well; the effects of DMT extend through all the human senses, including those we weren’t taught about in school.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/3/

7. Problem: This even more points out that he had a strong hallucination because of the strong dose he took:

Like I mentioned on the previous page, I had a simple method for overcoming hallucinations while on acid; I would just focus harder on it and remind myself I’m on acid, and the hallucination would return to its true form. That didn’t work on DMT. No matter how hard I tried focusing on these hallucinations, on the fact they couldn’t be real, they didn’t stop. I just noticed more about them. What’s more, they seemed to scoff at my attempts to deny them as anything other than real.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/3/

8. Problem: The author claims that he is not making this up. This is true I agree but I think still it is a hallucination and nothing more and I stand by the fact that his memory is not so fresh:

I must once again pause to note that the following is not exaggerated. It is what I actually saw. I’m not filling the voids of my recollection with imaginative details. I went into this experience with the intent of paying close attention to whatever happened. I don’t need made-up details, there was far more than I could have even absorbed.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/3/

9. Problem: Alec the one who gave them DMT mentioned these beings before maybe:

In an instant, I forgot I put myself in this state. I was simply there, dealing with it. I didn’t have the capacity to consider maybe these were the “gods” Alec “partied with.” All that went out the window of thought


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/4/

10. Problem: This is a major problem to the spiritual interpretation of the DMT experience because Alec knew about these beings and the author was screaming about it out loud. They all took the drug and thanks to the screams of the author they could have all the same hallucination thanks to the influence of the authors screams:

I could open my eyes, but when I did I still saw them. It was like when you look at an image on a computer screen before shutting your eyes and seeing the imprint it leaves, only the other way around. When I opened my eyes, their figures remained imprinted in my opened-eye vision.

Disturbed by my inability to escape them, I freaked out.

“Oh God. Oh God. Oh God!” I exclaimed. Curious, considering my agnostic nature. Every muscle in my body tensed up, resisting them.

I could hear a voice. A real one. It was Alec.

“James, it’s okay. Let them take you. They’re cool.”

He knew what I was experiencing.

Instantly every muscle in my body relaxed as I let go of the physical strain with which I resisted them. When I closed my eyes again, they were directly upon me. At my feet. In my face. They looked as though their bodies were entirely made up of a thick, amorphous blob of metallic liquid, which they could manipulate in any manner they pleased. This is an ancient pop-culture reference, but if you remember that Nickelodeon show from the 90’s called The Secret World of Alex Mac, it was like a thicker, black version of the liquid Alex Mac would turn into.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/4/

11. Problem: Another example that it was a hallucination based on normal memories:

Once we arrived, their hands were feeling my face and my body. I focused most of my attention on the one in the middle, although by this point it appeared as though their bodies had molded into one. She looked eerily similar to the greek goddess Medusa. Only upon closer inspection, her hair was comprised of tentacles (that she could control) rather than snakes. In addition to her hair, she had what appeared to be retractable tentacles protruding from the sides of her torso, which joined the hands in their physical inspection of me. The scariest part was I could feel them. I could feel them caressing my face and body. Each and every touch.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/4/

12. Problem: Alec claims that these beings were the gods. This is in a way a small manipulation because he gives the author the answer who is after a DMT trip. If Alec would claim its just a hallucination then the author would have a different conclusion:

The visual distortions remained for about another five minutes as I grappled with what had just happened. I demanded answers from Alec, “What the {!#%@} were those things?”

“The gods, man,” he replied.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/4/

13. Problem: They all talked about it afterwards. Influencing each other. Second problem is that they had a similar experience and not a complete same experience. Also another problem is that they took a drug. Drugs can have the same symptoms or similar symptoms if you take one. I still do not see anything paranormal here:

As we talked about our experiences, we found striking similarities in what we saw. Three black humanoid figures, seemingly made up of a viscous liquid. This was amazing to me, as it would support the hypothesis that DMT allows the user to access another plane of existence.

Being a devout rationalist, I discarded this as a possibility. Until the conversation continued. And Jay spoke the following words which shattered my grip on rationality.

“Did ya’ll notice a more human-looking figure, like, in the corner of the place they took you?”

My jaw dropped. No. {!#%@}. Possible. Way. I no longer knew what to think. I still don’t.

Alec remembered seeing such a figure, and if you read my above account, you know I did too. How did we just happen to have such similar experiences?


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/5/

Here is a example that one common feature of the drug are Machine Elves:

"Machine Elves"[edit]

One common feature of the hallucinogenic experience caused by DMT are hallucinations of humanoid like beings, characterised as being otherworldly. The terms Machine Elf was coined by ethnobotanist Terence McKenna for the experience, who also used the terms fractal elves, or self-transforming machine elves.[91][92]

Hallucinations of strange creatures had been reported by Szara in the Journal of Mental Science (now the British Journal of Psychiatry) (1958) “Dimethyltryptamine Experiments with Psychotics”, Stephen Szara described how one of his subjects under the influence of DMT had experienced “strange creatures, dwarves or something” at the beginning of a DMT trip.[93]

Other researchers of the experience described 'entities' or 'beings' in humanoid as well as animal form, with descriptions of "little people" being common (non-human gnomes, elves, imps etc.). This form of hallucination has been speculated to be the cause of alien abduction experiences through endogenously occurring DMT.[94][95]

Cliff Pickover has also written about the "machine elf"-experience, in the book Sex, Drugs, Einstein, & Elves.[96]


Taken from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N,N-Dimeth ... e_Elves.22

14. Problem: Here we see another problem. Even when all of them had the similar experience. They could not completely describe the beings they saw:

Afterward, I scoured the internet for literature on DMT. I needed answers. What the {!#%@} were those beings I saw? Spirits? Demons? Angels?

It made me realize none of us even know what any of these things look like. If us three had the same trip – with the same beings – independent of each other, surely someone else has.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/5/

15. Problem: Here is another problem if it was a spiritual experience into another realm using DMT why not other people had these experiences? Even the author acknowledges that he found only 3 experiences like this with these creatures:

There’s not much literature online about DMT, at least compared to other drugs. Plus, I was really only concerned with finding that which dealt with the actual beings that I saw. I read through a lot of other people’s experiences, and the majority of them came across as somewhat similar to what my friends and I experienced; as though the subjects merely described the experience differently. After searching for a while, I only found two or three recounted experiences that described the beings I saw. The implications of this have left me dumbfounded.


Taken from: http://ewwty.com/2012/02/24/dimethyltry ... erience/5/

16. Problem: If DMT was able to make you visit a different realm so why are there are so many contradictions? Some people claim they seen dead relatives in DMT trips others have not. Example where a person has seen a dead relative:

My DMT Experience - Loved Ones in Dark Corners
MadFish April 2012
Hrair
After a third inhalation, I set the glass down next to the window and find myself entranced by microscopic patterns that are crawling across the windowsill like a thousand tiny insects. A strong buzzing sound dominates my hearing, and when I look up I can see my frame of vision shifting to and fro as I move my head. My bedroom seems to vibrate and the edges of objects in my room take on multiple dimensions. I feel as though I am being watched, and I look to my doorway and see an image of my mother and father standing there looking at me curiously. They seem to be saying “What is wrong with him? What has he done?” I gaze at them in fear as if I were still a teenager afraid of being “caught,” but the feeling does not last long, as my room explodes into a billion fractal crystals. I feel my consciousness propelled forward into hyperspace, leaving my earthly body behind.
Post edited by MadFish at 2012-04-12 23:08:04
"It's just a ride." - Bill Hicks
MadFish April 2012
Hrair
I find myself in a dark corridor. It is a hallway that leads only one way, but is infinitely twisting at the same time. The hallway turns left, then right, then left again and I feel as though I am traversing an impossible maze. My path is lit before me by a small glowing sphere emanating from my body, but with every turn I am confronted with a dark, shadowed corner. Each corner that I pass is unfathomably dark and seems to stretch into the void. The strangest part is that each of these “dark corners” is inhabited by various people whom I have loved and who have loved me. My beloved sister, my paternal grandmother, my aunt and lifelong mentor, my strong and fearless uncle, long deceased. Each is seated in a wooden chair that slides forward from the darkness as I pass, until their faces become illuminated by my light-sphere. Their solemn faces are lit in the firelight of my spirit for a moment before they slide back into the darkness. One by one, corner by corner, they each gaze into my eyes and share with me a look of recognition. They do not speak, but seem to nod as if telling me that they are here by my side, summoned to see me off on my journey of a lifetime. The feeling of real, visceral love is present throughout. These are the people most dear to me in life, and here I find them guarding the gateway to what would become the most deeply intimate and spiritual experience of my life. I reach the end of the corridor and find there a pitch black portal, dark and mysterious. Strengthened by the love of my family, I focus my resolve and step through the entropic doorway…


Taken from: http://duncantrussell.com/forum/discuss ... corners/p1

Example where no dead relatives were present. Also another poster writes the same in the link:

Pretty sure this depends entirely on you and the culture you grew up in. I'm a full blown atheist, and while I've seen entities, my grandfather hasn't exactly come down and offered me any sage advice. A traditional use of ayahuasca in native ceremonies is to connect with your ancestors though.


Taken from: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default. ... ts&t=27886

Conclusion: This experience is very interesting however it falls short of evidence for a paranormal journey. The most rational explanation is that the drug has these symptoms and can cause these hallucinations and therefore everyone seen something similar. Its like taking some pill which has the same effect like its written on it or the same disease which has some symptoms and I think DMT works the same. Also one problem here is that the author himself was in a quite a chaos, he was also influenced by Alec who already believed that these beings are gods, another problem is that they talked about it with each other influencing each other, another problem is that not everyone has this kind of experience and the drug varies in experiences between people for example my friends never seen machine elves but felt the universe and had a similar experience like the author and one of the symptoms can be the machine elves. So for me this is another nice experience and that is all I have to say and I do not see anything paranormal here. However other people can read it for themselves and tell me what they think about it.
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

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Gord
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Re: Shared DMT Experiences a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:39 am

Shen1986 wrote:...In my own youth I did run some experiments with it...on some friends who were eager to try some drugs...

Ah, the evils of youth. :mrgreen:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE


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