Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle].

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Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle].

Post #1  Postby Cobalt6 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:30 pm

This is another topic which I haven't seen around on forums such as this. Bruce Gernon claims that he encountered a cylindrical-shaped cloud in his light aircraft, and upon exiting the cloud, he found he was over the mainland - a trip that usually took 1.5 hours (in this case, Bruce Gernon claims the trip took only 30 minutes). Bruce has produced a book of his alleged experience, and the only forums that discuss it are invalid for skepticism (such as ATS), so I'd like to know of the input here and any inconsistencies in Gernon's report, or tower log data which negates his testimony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX49xam2Wts

His book is named ''electronic fog'', because of the claimed disturbance in instrumentation as he travelled through the strange cloud. He's been milking his story for the past thirty years, and claims that his passenger is a witness.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #2  Postby Shen1986 » Thu Oct 03, 2013 3:44 pm

So far I found only this:

I went to a local bookstore and found the book The Fog by Rob MacGregor and Bruce Gernon, which I would be discussing on the show. In the book, a pilot (Gernon) professes to have flown through a wormhole in the Bermuda Triangle formed by an “electromagnetic fog.” During the ensuing weeks, the producer sent me several other references supporting the time traveler, and I pointed out in each of these sources the obviously unrealistic errors in physics.

I sent the producer a detailed six-page refutation of the idea of a wormhole in the Caribbean that the pilot supposedly flew through to get to Miami. I used the information in the book to calculate and map out the plane’s true trajectory to prove his trip did not require any supernatural or astrophysical conditions, only a strong tailwind! I went on to explain the physical problems associated with wormholes in the context of general relativity, the differences between mathematical results and physics, and the fact that there is currently no physical evidence that copious amounts of negative energy in the universe “hold open” a wormhole to allow passage. I also calculated the mass needed to open a black hole with the required event horizon dimensions (which was much more than the mass of the Earth itself).

When the time came for the interview, we settled on some demonstrations that I was going to do to show the physics side of wormholes. The filming was done at a small seaside resort on Andros Island in the Bahamas, and it was actually quite enjoyable. I was treated very well and the three UFO hunters seemed very interested in what a physicist had to say about these events. They all read my document before the filming and agreed my solutions were sound. The interview lasted for nearly two hours, during which I explained the difference between mathematics and physics, the concepts of general relativity, wormholes in space-time, and how one would need negative energy to construct a time-travel machine. Other more common topics, such as space flight and technology, were also discussed. We also talked about my analysis of the pilot’s journey and how it was easily explained well within normal atmospheric physics.


Taken from: http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/ufo_hunters_debacle/

Also its about Time Travel. Hmm even the rationalwiki has its in the woo department:

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Time_travel

Also the only scientist that is telling that we can time travel is Brain Cox:

‘Can you build a time machine? The answer is yes,’ professor Brian Cox revealed to an eager audience at the British Science Festival earlier this week.

The one caveat for such an incredible feat, however, is that one cannot travel back again, the physicist and presenter said.

Prof Cox was explaining the feasibility of Doctor Who’s tardis ahead of a talk next week that he’s leading on the science fiction show to mark its 50th birthday.

He echoed age-old theories of time travel, most notably Einstein’s Special Relativity which says that an object can free itself of the confines of time as it approaches the speed of light.

‘If you go fast, your clock runs slow relative to people who are still. As you approach the speed of light, your clock runs so slow you could come back 10,000 years in the future,’ said Prof Cox.

He did, however, also suggest that travel may only be possible in a forward gear and not backwards, though ‘wormholes’ could provide an answer.


Taken from: http://metro.co.uk/2013/09/12/professor ... e-3963614/

However I am very skeptical of Brain Cox:

By either accident or design, Cox started as a dreamy pretty-boy English pop idol who played to thousands upon thousands of screaming pre-adolescent girls by playing keyboards in Cool Britannia/Britpop band D:Ream (of "Things Can Only Get Better" fame, Labour's 1997 election anthem) in the 1990s and Dare (with Thin Lizzy's Darren Wharton) in the 1980s.[4] He returned to play keyboards on D:Ream's 2011 single "Gods in the Making"[5] but he's unlikely to tour with them again due to other commitments and the fact that after years of operating particle colliders, he's probably forgotten how to turn a keyboard on.[6]

After his pop career washed up when D:Ream disbanded in 1997, he returned to physics and got himself a doctorate. Before becoming a professor at Manchester University and a lead researcher for CERN. He has since gone on to do huge amounts of science advocacy and presenting on television and become much more famous than he was in his previous career. At his present age (45) he has no business looking as young and attractive as he does.[7] Basically, he has lived the life every self-respecting nerd desires.


Taken from: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Brian_Cox

After read some things about him I think he is just a speaker or magnet to publicize science and to tell people to support science because this way your dreams will come true etc..
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #3  Postby grouchobets » Thu Dec 26, 2013 2:31 am

Sorry to hear how you feel about Brian Cox.  I disagree.  You make him sound like a puppet for the world's governments who want to make sure that you believe what you're supposed to believe and nothing else(big brother).  I'm sorry, but at the risk of being chastised and water boarded by big brother, I believe that he is nothing more than a physicist.

     grouchobets

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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #4  Postby octopus1 » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:54 pm

grouchobets wrote:Sorry to hear how you feel about Brian Cox.  I disagree.  You make him sound like a puppet for the world's governments who want to make sure that you believe what you're supposed to believe and nothing else(big brother).  I'm sorry, but at the risk of being chastised and water boarded by big brother, I believe that he is nothing more than a physicist.

     grouchobets

PS I'd rather pick up AK than AA in no limit texas hold'em.  Are you skeptical????


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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #5  Postby Poodle » Thu Dec 26, 2013 6:38 pm

Shen1986 wrote:After read some things about him I think he is just a speaker or magnet to publicize science and to tell people to support science because this way your dreams will come true etc..


Even if he was what you suggest, Shen (and I don't think he is), would that be such a bad thing? Dr. Alice Roberts, I suppose, could be painted with the same brush, but I would listen to Alice for hours (and hours). Making real science sexy is a pretty constructive thing to do.

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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #6  Postby georgej7 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 3:20 pm

There is a well documented phenomenon known as a roll cloud.  Consider the possiblility that Gernon entered a roll cloud, which, like a tornado is probably clear within, like the eye of a hurricane.  I know of noone checking out the interior of a tornado.  The air moving within the roll could be traveling horizontally at 100 mph and the static electrical effect with the moving air layers could affect electical instruments and magnetic compass. Voila.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #7  Postby georgej7 » Mon Dec 30, 2013 5:04 pm

This is my second attempt to post.  Newbee.

There is a well documented phenomenon known as a roll cloud, a large cylindrical cloud stretching across the sky, often horizon to horizon.

Consider the possiblility that Gernon entered one and was moved quickly inside it horizontally.  I am presuming that a roll cloud has a rapidly moving core as in a tornado, not spinning, but linear.  The core of a hurricane, for example, is clear with a rapidly rising air column.  It could carry an airplane hourizontally at speed.  In addition the static electrical effects of rapidly moving layers of air could adversely affect electrical and magnetic aircraft instruments.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #8  Postby Gord » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:40 am

grouchobets wrote:PS I'd rather pick up AK than AA in no limit texas hold'em.  Are you skeptical????

I with more often with a 10-Jack unsuited that with AA in the hole.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #9  Postby kennyc » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:47 pm

Shen1986 wrote:So far I found only this:
...

Also the only scientist that is telling that we can time travel is Brain Cox:

‘Can you build a time machine? The answer is yes,’ professor Brian Cox revealed to an eager audience at the British Science Festival earlier this week.

The one caveat for such an incredible feat, however, is that one cannot travel back again, the physicist and presenter said.

Prof Cox was explaining the feasibility of Doctor Who’s tardis ahead of a talk next week that he’s leading on the science fiction show to mark its 50th birthday.

He echoed age-old theories of time travel, most notably Einstein’s Special Relativity which says that an object can free itself of the confines of time as it approaches the speed of light.

‘If you go fast, your clock runs slow relative to people who are still. As you approach the speed of light, your clock runs so slow you could come back 10,000 years in the future,’ said Prof Cox.

He did, however, also suggest that travel may only be possible in a forward gear and not backwards, though ‘wormholes’ could provide an answer.


....
.......


Shen, Brian Cox is a very respected scientist of the David Attenborough scale. Have you seen his recent BBC programs?

The time-travel effects of Einstein's Relativity are absolutely correct and have been demonstrated. The time-travel however is only one-way and is relative only to non-travelers. It has to do with relative speeds and physical travel. You can go forward in time, but not back.   Wormholes are pure speculation -- like string theory that remain to be proven. I'm sure he presented it that way.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #10  Postby kennyc » Tue Dec 31, 2013 1:50 pm

Poodle wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:After read some things about him I think he is just a speaker or magnet to publicize science and to tell people to support science because this way your dreams will come true etc..


Even if he was what you suggest, Shen (and I don't think he is), would that be such a bad thing? Dr. Alice Roberts, I suppose, could be painted with the same brush, but I would listen to Alice for hours (and hours). Making real science sexy is a pretty constructive thing to do.



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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #11  Postby Rob Lister » Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:00 pm

AA has better odds but makes you do irrational things.  So it depends on where the button is.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #12  Postby georgej7 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:39 pm

I am new here, obviously, and disturbed(hopefully not mentally).  My question is: where did the topic go?  Gernon's phenomenal experience may by wierd, but there may be a kernel of truth there.  He has persued the circumstances of  this experience for 30+ years; why?  His perception may be altered with time, but was reported and sort of substantiated at the time.

 Brian Cox, who I admire, and card games are not germain here under the circumstances.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #13  Postby kennyc » Wed Jan 01, 2014 4:45 pm

georgej7 wrote:I am new here, obviously, and disturbed(hopefully not mentally).  My question is: where did the topic go?  Gernon's phenomenal experience may by wierd, but there may be a kernel of truth there.  He has persued the circumstances of  this experience for 30+ years; why?  His perception may be altered with time, but was reported and sort of substantiated at the time.

 Brian Cox, who I admire, and card games are not germain here under the circumstances.
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Well George, you have a lot to learn apparently about skepticism, science and rational inquiry.

Are you another Mark/Cobalt sockpuppet?
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #14  Postby georgej7 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:36 pm

Apparently, Kenny, you have a lot more to learn than I about skepticism, rational inquiry, and science.

I certainly hope that you are not reprentative sample of this forum group.  

And, you could improve your grammar a bit with some additional education.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #15  Postby kennyc » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:48 pm

georgej7 wrote:Apparently, Kenny, you have a lot more to learn than I about skepticism, rational inquiry, and science.

I certainly hope that you are not reprentative sample of this forum group.  

And, you could improve your grammar a bit with some additional education.

Yes you clearly have much to learn.

You can hope for whatever you like but hope rarely makes things true, that takes action.

You really are another mark/cobalt sock i see.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #16  Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:11 pm

Cobalt6 wrote:This is another topic which I haven't seen around on forums such as this. Bruce Gernon claims that he encountered a cylindrical-shaped cloud in his light aircraft, and upon exiting the cloud, he found he was over the mainland - a trip that usually took 1.5 hours (in this case, Bruce Gernon claims the trip took only 30 minutes). Bruce has produced a book of his alleged experience, and the only forums that discuss it are invalid for skepticism (such as ATS), so I'd like to know of the input here and any inconsistencies in Gernon's report, or tower log data which negates his testimony.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX49xam2Wts

His book is named ''electronic fog'', because of the claimed disturbance in instrumentation as he travelled through the strange cloud. He's been milking his story for the past thirty years, and claims that his passenger is a witness.

Probably the lamest "time travel" since the Hills.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #17  Postby kennyc » Wed Jan 01, 2014 6:31 pm

The Hills? Betty and Barney?
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #18  Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jan 01, 2014 7:58 pm

georgej7 wrote:Apparently, Kenny, you have a lot more to learn than I about skepticism, rational inquiry, and science.

I certainly hope that you are not reprentative sample of this forum group.  

And, you could improve your grammar a bit with some additional education.

:scratch:
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #19  Postby Poodle » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:46 pm

georgej7 wrote:I am new here, obviously, and disturbed(hopefully not mentally).  My question is: where did the topic go?  Gernon's phenomenal experience may by wierd, but there may be a kernel of truth there.  He has persued the circumstances of  this experience for 30+ years; why?  His perception may be altered with time, but was reported and sort of substantiated at the time.

 Brian Cox, who I admire, and card games are not germain here under the circumstances.
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Woohoo! How to make yourself popular - Part 1.

Here, George, are the operative parts of your missive ... may, may, why, may, sort of. And you appeal for scientists? Guesswork, George, does not play a major part in science, although it does in your posts so far. And your own English is atrocious - certainly not up to such a standard as to permit you to criticize anyone else's. Sheesh!!!

I suggest you begin again.

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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #20  Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jan 01, 2014 10:52 pm

kennyc wrote:The Hills? Betty and Barney?

Yep, "lost time".
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #21  Postby octopus1 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 11:01 pm

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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #22  Postby chazzer » Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:32 am

The idea of a roll cloud, as noted by georgej7, does a fine job of explaining many of the details reported by Mr. Gernon and other accounts of the incident, I believe.

As I understand the circumstances, Mr. Gernon was flying at a time when there were high and low pressure systems in the area. This combination is known to cause thunderstorms, hail, tornadoes, and roll clouds.  Some tornadoes are formed horizontally before one end dips down into a typical tornado or water funnel. Others never quite make it to ground, and weaken into less violent roll clouds.

Mr. Gernon reported flying into a ring of some kind, a tunnel with swirling clouds that appeared miles long but only took minutes to exit, and he arrived over Miami far ahead of schedule, observing a greenish tint to the atmosphere.

Inside the roll cloud or horizontal tornado, luckily traveling in the direction of the suction effect, he would have seen the rotation of clouds around him, and the air speed of the air around him would have increased dramatically, although as georgej7 noted, the air speed of the plane relative to the surrounding air would have been normal per the plane's air speed indicator, while the air speed of the plane to the earth (unseen by Mr. Gernon) would have been very high.  The air speed increase would have been more than just a strong tail wind, but more like a turbo jet tail wind.  The plane might have turned (rolled) upside down several times due to the rotation forces around him.  Maybe the forces helped to keep his plane centered and even prevented it from reaching and breaching a wall of the tornado, which likely would have ripped the wing apart.

This makes me think that Mr. Gernon was very, very lucky that this force of nature allowed him an exit.  It's something along the lines of accidentally surfing a tidal wave and landing safely at a taxi stand.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #23  Postby waterwings » Fri Mar 07, 2014 3:41 pm

I was so pleased to learn of Bruce Gernon's experience.   In 1966, I was traveling on a California freeway, in heavy traffic.  I was frustrated and in a hurry to get home.   Traffic was crawling.  Suddenly,  my vision of the traffic ahead disappeared and was replaced by an hour glass.  Below the hour glass was the term,  "Time is Space".   The hour glass disappeared and I found myself many miles down the road, close to the exit I took everyday to go home.    In a virtual instant flash of time, I had traveled miles.   I was so astounded that I took my experience to teachers I knew and to people a lot smarter than I am.  No one believed me.   But it is true.   For a long time, I was disappointed that not only did no one believe me,  I was asked the usual kidding questions like "what were YOU smoking?".  But, everyone knew that among my friends, I was known as the girl who "didn't drink, didn't smoke and didn't smoke"...meaning I never used drugs, nor smoked, nor drank alcohol.  And, I didn't.    And, now - at the age of 67, I really don't care if no one believes me because I know it is true and that it is a real to me today as it was then.   Such a vivid experience.  That was the other thing - the hour glass and the message below it were an astounding kind of vividness.   Thank you, Bruce for sharing your experience.   I know what you are talking about!


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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #24  Postby waterwings » Wed May 28, 2014 10:21 am

There is only one thing I can say to the doubters and naysayers who doubt Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience:  there are two ways you can understand and explore the new vistas his experience opens up to you.  You can either have the experience yourself, or you can take your feet out of the quicksand of what you think you know and consider the possibility.  Fortunately, for me, I had the exact same experience over 40 years ago -- astounding and unforgettable - so I know exactly what he is talking about.  I am a 68-year old grandmother, pretty much an average person with no higher educational benefits and not only do I have nothing to gain by standing up for Mr. Gernon, but I pretty much don't care if anyone believes or not believes my experience - or his experience. But, I DO care about you.  If you are a member of the skeptics society, it is in your nature to scoff at any new idea.  But you should always keep a place to go in your heart and mind where you can consider possibilities.  Simply put, a closed mind is a closed door.   History has born out that forerunners of any new thought usually run alone.  That's just the way it is.  But I can tell you that if you are willing to discard what you THINK you know and consider the possibilities of the truth of his experience, doors will open up to you.  There are some among you who clearly are at the level of someone who is ready for the new vistas his (and my) experience can take you.   I hope you will clear your mind to consider the possibilities.  You won't be sorry.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #25  Postby Poodle » Wed May 28, 2014 3:37 pm

There is, of course, a third way to look at such claims.

I'm afraid, Waterwings, that this statement ...

"If you are a member of the skeptics society, it is in your nature to scoff at any new idea.  But you should always keep a place to go in your heart and mind where you can consider possibilities."

... displays an absolute ignorance of what skepticism is all about.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #26  Postby kennyc » Wed May 28, 2014 4:53 pm

Could it be an new donnie/mark/cobalt/ alias....haven't seen donnie/mark around in a while...

Note this thread started by cobalt is old and stinky and dredged up by this newbie....
Last edited by kennyc on Fri May 30, 2014 8:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #27  Postby waterwings » Fri May 30, 2014 8:31 pm

Poodle, better to be ignorant than to be a quarter-inch deep when considering all possibilities.  If all you can say about my post is that I don't know what skepticism is "all about", then obviously you miss the point entirely.  Like anything else, the usage of the term "skeptic" has more insinuations and connotations, than just the simple way you see it.   To deflect the content of my post to your one little comment is to do a disservice to hopeful inquiry and honest input about any subject.   I am sure you must have good ideas and thoughts about Mr. Gernon's experience and I suggest that if you have anything to say, you should stay on point.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #28  Postby Poodle » Fri May 30, 2014 11:18 pm

waterwings wrote:Poodle, better to be ignorant than to be a quarter-inch deep when considering all possibilities.  If all you can say about my post is that I don't know what skepticism is "all about", then obviously you miss the point entirely.  Like anything else, the usage of the term "skeptic" has more insinuations and connotations, than just the simple way you see it.   To deflect the content of my post to your one little comment is to do a disservice to hopeful inquiry and honest input about any subject.   I am sure you must have good ideas and thoughts about Mr. Gernon's experience and I suggest that if you have anything to say, you should stay on point.


Well, if you think ignorance is better than anything, you may carry on in your bliss. I missed no point. This is a forum packed to the gunnels with skeptics who, generally speaking, have read and understood what it says on the forum banner. Having done that, they also tend to see that anyone coming along to point out that the term skeptic has "more insinuations and connotations" is just looking for excuses. Honest input? Would that word 'honest' have more insinuations and connotations?

Hopeful inquiry is a good description - it's hopeful in that every woo afficionado who comes here is hopeful that we'll all forget how many times time travel is brought up by people who have the scientific nous of a dead maggot. However, here's my 'on point' response as you asked so nicely. Time travel (discounting our normal passage through time in a forward direction and the time dilation effects of super-speed travel) is not possible, no matter how many people claim to have experienced it. Those people are either deluded or dishonest - you choose. I really can't be bothered to explain why it's not possible, as that's been done so many times before. It would be pointless for me to add yet another explanation so that people such as yourself can ignore it and then claim that everyone else should jump on the merry-go-round yet again.

Anyway, I told you all of this last year.
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #29  Postby kennyc » Fri May 30, 2014 11:25 pm

Must be a time-traveler.  :roll:  :roll:  :roll:
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #30  Postby Sudz28 » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:16 pm

Just found this site after watching a TV episode featuring this very event.  Unless Google is lying to me, the distance between Andros Island, Bahamas and Miami Beach, Florida is 152 miles.  By Mr. Gernon's own account, he made the trip in just over 45 minutes (he personally states "... a little less than 47 minutes").  Basic math tells you that a single-engine plane with a rated cruising speed of 169 miles per hour could easily make that kind of time without any kind of interfering phenomena given a strong tail wind.  I'm certainly no pilot, and I don't believe that Mr. Gernon is lying or making something up simply to sell a book or see his name in the paper, but I really fail to see how - aside from a very unusual cloud formation and meteorological event - this comes close to being something unexplainable by normal laws of physics?
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Re: Bruce Gernon's time-travel experience [Bermuda Triangle]

Post #31  Postby kennyc » Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:23 pm

Dang, almost made it a month.....
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