Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

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Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:16 pm

A new member send me this to have a look at it. You can find the whole story here: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

So here is my skeptical look at Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE, enjoy:

1. Problem: Typical narrative in Christian religion texts to convince atheists that their religion is right and this is a for me a typical red flag that the story can be a fabrication. Sorry read too much of those and many times in them its atheism vs. theism, nothing new or special:

I used to be an atheist mocking God and persecuting the Holy Church. I lived my life in sin, and spiritually I was completely dead. But suddenly, in His great mercy, God called me, His creation, to repentance so that I would not perish.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

2. Problem: Its very hard to swallow this for me his contradiction. She claims that she had cancer for 3 years that is quite strange and leaves me skeptical if she had such a strong cancer she would be dead in a year or so. It depends on the cancer she has but he makes it sound severe so he would be dead after a year:

In 1962 I became ill with cancer and suffered from the disease for three years. The doctors treated me in vain, for my health deteriorated more and more each day; it reached the point where I couldn't even drink water without vomiting.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

Here is a example with someone who had severe cancer and the doctor gave her a year to live:

My sister had carcinoma, she passed away on April 10th 2014. This was just a month after her first biopsy report. The specialist said she would make 1 or max 1.5 year. We had high hopes as we thought we had some time at hand. It can never be predicted I suppose. The preceding days to her death, we had consulted a top Oncologist of the country. He maintained that whatever the case may be, the patient shall be there for atleast 40 days.
I always pray that nobody should get this disease, but this world is real.


Source: https://www.quora.com/How-long-can-some ... -treatment

3. Problem: This is nonsense why would they want to operate a person who was almost dead? That is total nonses it would cause the cancer to spread faster and he would die on the table. Its against medical orders or common sense:

The doctors treated me in vain, for my health deteriorated more and more each day; it reached the point where I couldn't even drink water without vomiting. I was transferred to another hospital where two doctors were called in from Moscow to operate on me. That was on February 19, 1965, at 11:00 a.m. They discovered during the operation that my intestines had decomposed. That was when I died.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

4. Problem: This is also false. He would be dead days before he was send to the operation, second if you are going to a operation there are many tests. The doctors would already know this if its true and they would not operate:

The doctors removed the intestines and placed them on the table, saying that instead of being fleshy and pliable, they were nothing but liquid—in other words, they had already decayed.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

5. Problem: Izdrael Igaevici Newman is non existent on the Internet I did a small google search and this is a quite a problem.

6. Problem: This again gives no sense. She had a family they cannot give a body of someone who dies to medical students to practice on it when the family does not agree on it. The person gets buried instead:

The doctors decided to give my body to the young interns to practice on, and thus, it was taken to the morgue where I was laid down naked, covered only with a sheet up to my chest.

Just then my brother came in with my son, Andrusha. My little boy came up to me, kissed me on the forehead, and broke out in tears, saying: "Mommy, why did you die? I'm still little, how will I live without you?"


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

7. Problem: This again sounds too much like its taken directly from the Bible like a priest wrote it:

Suddenly I was in some water, with the most horrific snakes climbing all over me. They had long tongues with flames of fire coming out of their mouths. There were many other forms of reptiles which all gave off an insufferable stench. These dragons climbed all over me, attaching themselves to me. There were also all kinds of worms wrapping themselves around my neck. They were as thick as a finger, a quarter of a yard long, with spikes on their tails. These worms found their way into my body through every orifice: genitals, eyes, nose, mouth, piercing my insides and fastening themselves to me. They were absolutely revolting and unbearable! I cried out with all my strength, but it was not my voice which I heard. But, there was no mercy to be found in that place, no help from anyone.

While I was there, a woman who died while having an abortion came in. She began to cry out and ask God to have mercy on her. But He answered: "Why didn't you ask me for help while you were alive on earth? You killed an infant in your womb and advised people not to have children, saying that it only made poverty worse. In my eyes, there is not an over-abundance of children. I give children to everyone. In my house, there are many rooms."


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

8. Problem: She wants to claim that after she returned to the living she could very well eat normal food? When before she claimed she could not even drink:

This took place at 9:00 a.m. on February 23, 1965. There were eight different incisions with stitches on my body; all the doctors had used it for research and study. After two hours, I was warm, I opened my eyes and began to talk. I was fed artificially for twenty days. Then they brought me something to eat: bread with sour cream, and coffee, but I told them that I would not eat. The nurse tried to convince me to eat, and everyone in the room turned their eyes toward me. Just then the doctor came in and asked me why I did not want to eat. I told him: "Today is Friday and I will not eat non-lenten food. If you sit down here next tome, I will tell you what I saw and where I was during the time I was dead."


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

Here is her claim she could not even drink:

The doctors treated me in vain, for my health deteriorated more and more each day; it reached the point where I couldn't even drink water without vomiting.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

9. Problem: She was a Communist Party member no surprise there. Even here in my own country these people who found god or religion during the Communist regime claim similar stories or other miracles because they just traded their religion, they were fanatic members of Communism now they are fanatic members of the Church. I cannot claim that the same happened here for sure because I do not know the person but I believe its the cause because the same happens in all post-communist countries, they are actually doing propaganda for their new religion:

The next day I went to the office of the Party and handed over my membership card, since the old Claudia, the atheist and activist, no longer existed. She had died!


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

10. Problem: The site and source is shaky at best:

Home
Welcome to the OCIC Web site, one of the largest and oldest sites on Orthodox Christianity. Think of the OCIC as a vast online article repository, with over 850 articles and 3,000 printed pages. This site has been online since 1996 and receives over 50,000 visits per month, according to Google Analytics.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com

11. Problem: God cured her from cancer but lets other people die with cancer? There are other people who had a NDE like Pam Reynolds but who later on died thanks to a heart attack. If NDEs give you some special healing power it is odd that Pam Reynolds died just 53 years old of a heart attack after a quite strong NDE:

Reynolds died from heart failure, on Saturday May 22, 2010, age 53 at Emory University Hospital, in Atlanta, Georgia.


Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case

12. Problem: The story took 24 years ago which is a lot of time has passed since then so all we have is her word for it, nothing more and how she remembers it which is also a problem memories are faulty.

Introduction. Through the will of God, the account of this miracle, which took place 24 years ago [1965], has reached America.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

13. Problem: The NDE is too much Orthodox its too much their view point of religion. I am starting to believe that this NDE is pure fiction written by some priest to convince atheists. They even took notice like to claim dates, places and names:

Introduction. Through the will of God, the account of this miracle, which took place 24 years ago [1965], has reached America. It's authenticity is verified by the fact that it records the year, day, hour, city, address, names... etc.


Source: http://orthodoxinfo.com/death/miracle_russia.aspx

14. Problem: This NDE contradicts other NDE where there are homosexuals in Heaven:

Countless near-death experiences describe the unconditional love that God has for everyone. This, of course, includes gays and lesbians. Just the fact that God created so many homosexuals (approximately 10% of the population) should be enough proof for any reasonable person. Unfortunately, there are people out there who, out of ignorance, fear, and bigotry, persecute them by treating them as second class citizens.


Source: http://www.near-death.com/experiences/g ... n.html#a00

Conclusion: The story is hard to believe in. It is full of Christian dogma like it was written by a priest or a fanatical Christian to begin with. The problems I pointed out highlight this. So for me this does not convince me because it sounds too Christian, too fanatic like everything that is written in the Bible is true and no wonder the NDE reflect this its on a Orthodox Christian site. So I am not convince.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:34 pm

Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|
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"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:33 pm

Shen1986 wrote:Conclusion: The story is hard to believe in. It is full of Christian dogma like it was written by a priest or a fanatical Christian to begin with. The problems I pointed out highlight this. So for me this does not convince me because it sounds too Christian, too fanatic like everything that is written in the Bible is true and no wonder the NDE reflect this its on a Orthodox Christian site. So I am not convince.

There are a few more issues with this woman's story as well.

The Issue of Time
I was transferred to another hospital where two doctors were called in from Moscow to operate on me. That was on February 19, 1965, at 11:00 a.m. They discovered during the operation that my intestines had decomposed. That was when I died.
She claims to have died on Friday, 19 February 1965.
My body was laying on a table, dead, the head turned a bit to one side, one arm dangling down, part of the torso touching another corpse. I don't know how my soul entered into the body, but I immediately felt. cold and pulled away from the other cadaver. I drew my knees together, and just then a dead man whose legs had been severed from his body by a train, was brought in on a bier. I opened my eyes and moved. Those carrying the bier ran off in all directions. Then the orderlies came in with two doctors. They gave orders to have me gave taken quickly into the hospital. There, all the doctors gathered quickly and said that my brain had to be warmed beneath the lights.

This took place at 9:00 a.m. on February 23, 1965.
She then claims to have come back to life on Tuesday, 23 February 1965.
I flew gently toward the morgue where my body had been taken. Then, all of a sudden, I was standing on solid ground. It was noon, the third day after I had died.
She attempts to fit her story into the biblical resurrection of Jesus by saying "the third day after I had died." First, Jesus died on Friday and was resurrected on Sunday, a total of three days. She claims she died on Friday and came back to life on Tuesday, a total of five days. Second, 23 February 1965 was the fourth day after the day she claims to have died, not the third. Third, in the first quote, she's deathly ill. In the second quote, she's in the morgue. In the third quote, she's still dead. How does she know the date and time in any of these situations?

The Issue of Operations
The doctors removed the intestines and placed them on the table, saying that instead of being fleshy and pliable, they were nothing but liquid—in other words, they had already decayed. Then they put all of the rotted tissue in a pile and said: "She couldn't have lived any longer; there was nothing healthy inside of her, everything was decomposed."
Note that she claims they excised the decayed intestines from her body.
The doctors operated and removed the intestines. I was awake, watching in the mirror on the ceiling. I asked the doctors what was wrong with me, and they answered that I was fine, with no disease at all. Just then the doctor who had performed the first operation together with the other doctors came in. They all looked at me, at my intestines and said: "But where is the disease" Everything in you was rotten before, but now it is all healthy.''
Where did these intestines come from? Her intestines had already been removed during the first operation.

The Issue of Prophecy
After that, the Savior said: "Look after your souls, for there is a short time left. Very soon I will come to judge the world"
Well, she claims her NDE occurred in 1965. That was 52 years ago. "Very soon" has come and gone, hasn't it? Just like every other end times prophecy, hers has failed to come to fruition.

The Issue of Witnesses
I am forty years old.
If she was 40 in 1965, odds are she's dead now, 52 years later. Odds are that every adult she mentions in her story is also dead. So, it's a story that can't be corroborated or even retold by the original teller. Interestingly, the address she claims to have lived at, 99 Crupskaia Street, Banial, Altaiul County—which took me awhile to translate into ulitsa Krupskoy 99, Barnaul, Altai Krai, Russia—is currently a police station. And the Orthodox site has the woman's name wrong too. It's not Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia; it's actually Klavdii Nikitichny Ustyuzhanin...and she didn't write the original story. The original story was written down by someone who alleges that Klavdii told it to her, so it's hearsay at best.

It appears that this story has been exaggerated considerably over the course of 52 years.
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:34 pm

Shen: word of the day: distillation.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:50 pm

You thirsty?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:31 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:You thirsty?

:rotfl:
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:35 pm

Gord wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|


Yup as for me. You got Anthony, Kamil and some others who were not here.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:37 pm

LunaNik wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:Conclusion: The story is hard to believe in. It is full of Christian dogma like it was written by a priest or a fanatical Christian to begin with. The problems I pointed out highlight this. So for me this does not convince me because it sounds too Christian, too fanatic like everything that is written in the Bible is true and no wonder the NDE reflect this its on a Orthodox Christian site. So I am not convince.

There are a few more issues with this woman's story as well.

The Issue of Time
I was transferred to another hospital where two doctors were called in from Moscow to operate on me. That was on February 19, 1965, at 11:00 a.m. They discovered during the operation that my intestines had decomposed. That was when I died.
She claims to have died on Friday, 19 February 1965.
My body was laying on a table, dead, the head turned a bit to one side, one arm dangling down, part of the torso touching another corpse. I don't know how my soul entered into the body, but I immediately felt. cold and pulled away from the other cadaver. I drew my knees together, and just then a dead man whose legs had been severed from his body by a train, was brought in on a bier. I opened my eyes and moved. Those carrying the bier ran off in all directions. Then the orderlies came in with two doctors. They gave orders to have me gave taken quickly into the hospital. There, all the doctors gathered quickly and said that my brain had to be warmed beneath the lights.

This took place at 9:00 a.m. on February 23, 1965.
She then claims to have come back to life on Tuesday, 23 February 1965.
I flew gently toward the morgue where my body had been taken. Then, all of a sudden, I was standing on solid ground. It was noon, the third day after I had died.
She attempts to fit her story into the biblical resurrection of Jesus by saying "the third day after I had died." First, Jesus died on Friday and was resurrected on Sunday, a total of three days. She claims she died on Friday and came back to life on Tuesday, a total of five days. Second, 23 February 1965 was the fourth day after the day she claims to have died, not the third. Third, in the first quote, she's deathly ill. In the second quote, she's in the morgue. In the third quote, she's still dead. How does she know the date and time in any of these situations?

The Issue of Operations
The doctors removed the intestines and placed them on the table, saying that instead of being fleshy and pliable, they were nothing but liquid—in other words, they had already decayed. Then they put all of the rotted tissue in a pile and said: "She couldn't have lived any longer; there was nothing healthy inside of her, everything was decomposed."
Note that she claims they excised the decayed intestines from her body.
The doctors operated and removed the intestines. I was awake, watching in the mirror on the ceiling. I asked the doctors what was wrong with me, and they answered that I was fine, with no disease at all. Just then the doctor who had performed the first operation together with the other doctors came in. They all looked at me, at my intestines and said: "But where is the disease" Everything in you was rotten before, but now it is all healthy.''
Where did these intestines come from? Her intestines had already been removed during the first operation.

The Issue of Prophecy
After that, the Savior said: "Look after your souls, for there is a short time left. Very soon I will come to judge the world"
Well, she claims her NDE occurred in 1965. That was 52 years ago. "Very soon" has come and gone, hasn't it? Just like every other end times prophecy, hers has failed to come to fruition.

The Issue of Witnesses
I am forty years old.
If she was 40 in 1965, odds are she's dead now, 52 years later. Odds are that every adult she mentions in her story is also dead. So, it's a story that can't be corroborated or even retold by the original teller. Interestingly, the address she claims to have lived at, 99 Crupskaia Street, Banial, Altaiul County—which took me awhile to translate into ulitsa Krupskoy 99, Barnaul, Altai Krai, Russia—is currently a police station. And the Orthodox site has the woman's name wrong too. It's not Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia; it's actually Klavdii Nikitichny Ustyuzhanin...and she didn't write the original story. The original story was written down by someone who alleges that Klavdii told it to her, so it's hearsay at best.

It appears that this story has been exaggerated considerably over the course of 52 years.


Good work. I had only read it a few times and wanted to show the biggest problems and you did a great job pointing out these new things. Thank you very much.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:46 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:You thirsty?

Good one. I did consider some other editors choices. Hitting the bottle though is always high on my list.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Shen1986 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:54 pm

LunaNik wrote:If she was 40 in 1965, odds are she's dead now, 52 years later. Odds are that every adult she mentions in her story is also dead. So, it's a story that can't be corroborated or even retold by the original teller.


What is quite fascinating with this NDE is that no one researched it. There is no one in the western world who took a look at it from the many NDE believers who were active. I know it happened in Russia during Communism but still why did no one of the NDE believer researchers took a look at. Heck even George Rodonaia who according to his words was assassinated by the KGB and was in Russia was researched by a NDE scientist:

"I knew George well; he was part of my research base and a brief version of his story is in my book Beyond the Light. I say "brief" because what happened to George is beyond the scope of books about the near-death phenomenon and could have easily been a book unto itself. George was a vocal Soviet dissident during the time when such a stance could get you killed. And that is exactly what happened - he was assassinated by the KGB. Because his case was highly political, an autopsy had to be performed. His corpse was stored in a freezer vault for three days until then. He revived on the autopsy table as he was being split open by the doctors, one of which was his own uncle. Of all the cases I have investigated in my 26 years of work in the field, his is the most dramatic, the longest, the most evidential, and the most soul-stirring. Now our beloved George Rodonaia has returned "Home" to stay. During the years afterward, he never failed to share his story and to help others every way he could. My only regret is, he never wrote his own book about his experience. Yet, perhaps he did, on everyone's heart who ever heard him. Blessings, dear George, you will be missed." -- Dr. P.M.H. Atwater


Taken from: http://www.near-death.com/science/evide ... s.html#a02

It seems to me that those NDE researchers like Dr. Atwater choose their NDE accounts based on that who they know or are friends off like we can see there above that she knew George well. I know its hard to find data on such a old case but still after Life after Life in the 1975 by Moody, NDEs became a hit and with such a NDE in their pocket they could at least make some waves but no one even knew about this story. This leaves me even more skeptical of this NDE.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:11 pm

Well, I remain skeptical of all NDEs. Not that I think people are making up these stories, necessarily. It's obvious why people under an inordinate amount of stress might have quite realistic dreams while unconscious. I mean, I have nightmares when I'm stressed out. When I say I'm skeptical, I mean that I don't believe that NDEs are visions of an afterlife or a deity. They're just dreams.
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Electro432 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:03 pm

Re the above I suspect that quantum endocrinology will explain it all as we have yet to map molecules adequately. Big pharma will have a fit!
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:20 am

Electro432 wrote:Re the above I suspect that quantum endocrinology will explain it all as we have yet to map molecules adequately. Big pharma will have a fit!
Big Pharma is always having a fit about something, usually because they can't overcharge people for some "new" medication that's merely a "me too" copy of an existing generic medication.
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Sat Jul 01, 2017 6:50 pm

Gord wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|

Nikki Nyx wrote:<a bunch of stuff>

WHO'RE YOU!? :shock:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:21 pm

Gord wrote:
Gord wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|

Nikki Nyx wrote:<a bunch of stuff>

WHO'RE YOU!? :shock:

Image I really hope you meant to put that apostrophe in that word, Gord. :nyaah:
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:14 pm

doctors are proven wrong often with their predictions of death...if a person wants to live they will live no matter what the doctor says...quality docs don't give a death sentence...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:26 pm

Do you really believe anyone gives a hoot about your inane babbling? Or are you simply seeking company and are engaged in a misguided attempt of garnering sympathy for your shortcomings?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:38 pm

you give a hoot or you wouldn't be trolling me constantly...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:41 pm

gorgeous wrote:doctors are proven wrong often with their predictions of death...
of·ten (adverb)
frequently; many times on many/numerous occasions, a lot, as often as not, repeatedly, again and again

Please provide a link to your proof that doctors are "as often as not" wrong.

gorgeous wrote:if a person wants to live they will live no matter what the doctor says...
This accounts for the plethora of 100-year-old to 1000-year-old human beings on the face of the planet. (That was sarcasm, in case you didn't recognize it.)

gorgeous wrote:quality docs don't give a death sentence...
Doctors provide an estimate based on the current progress of the diagnosed condition. Fortune tellers predict a death sentence.
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby gorgeous » Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:43 pm

Doctors 'routinely wrong' with predictions on when terminally ill will die ...



www.independent.co.uk/.../terminally-il ... rong-wit...


Sep 13, 2016 - Doctors often get it wrong when predicting how long terminally ill people ... “Just as when we are born, the precise timing of death can be an ...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:13 pm

gorgeous wrote:Doctors 'routinely wrong' with predictions on when terminally ill will die ...



http://www.independent.co.uk/.../termin ... rong-wit...


Sep 13, 2016 - Doctors often get it wrong when predicting how long terminally ill people ... “Just as when we are born, the precise timing of death can be an ...

DEAD LINK, AS USUAL.
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Flash » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:14 pm

From the Orthodoxinfo article, a confession:
I used to be an atheist mocking God and persecuting the Holy Church. I lived my life in sin, and spiritually I was completely dead.

Cont... And although I discovered the cure for cancer, invented a rocket that can fly people to Mars in half an hour and contacted the aliens on Beta Centauri, I realized that only the belief in the imaginary spook hovering in the clouds over my head would make my life complete. So I became a Cheesecan, no, no Chimpan, wait...Christmas, Christian?
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:16 pm

Flash wrote:From the Orthodoxinfo article, a confession:
I used to be an atheist mocking God and persecuting the Holy Church. I lived my life in sin, and spiritually I was completely dead.

Cont... And although I discovered the cure for cancer, invented a rocket that can fly people to Mars in half an hour and contacted the aliens on Beta Centauri, I realized that only the belief in the imaginary spook hovering in the clouds over my head would make my life complete. So I became a Cheesecan, no, no Chimpan, wait...Christmas, Christian?

:rotfl:
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:31 am

I see georgie is whinging. :roll:

Kiddo, we wouldn't bump into each other as often if you gave up smearing your useless spam all over the place. Still not sunk in that your senseless attempts at dumbing down the internet work only at certain sites? This ain't one of them.
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:17 am

scrmbldggs wrote:I see georgie is whinging. :roll:

Kiddo, we wouldn't bump into each other as often if you gave up smearing your useless spam all over the place. Still not sunk in that your senseless attempts at dumbing down the internet work only at certain sites? This ain't one of them.

As opposed to this useful spam:
https://youtu.be/anwy2MPT5RE
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:56 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:
Gord wrote:
Gord wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|

Nikki Nyx wrote:<a bunch of stuff>

WHO'RE YOU!? :shock:

Image I really hope you meant to put that apostrophe in that word, Gord. :nyaah:

A wizard is never later.

...wait, wrong sentence!

I always mean to put my apostrophes precisely where I d'o.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jul 02, 2017 6:15 pm

Gord wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
Gord wrote:
Gord wrote:
Shen1986 wrote:A new member send me this...

There's a new member? :|

Nikki Nyx wrote:<a bunch of stuff>

WHO'RE YOU!? :shock:

Image I really hope you meant to put that apostrophe in that word, Gord. :nyaah:

A wizard is never later.

...wait, wrong sentence!

I always mean to put my apostrophes precisely where I d'o.

Image
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:44 pm

I know how to spell it! :shakefist:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Nikki Nyx
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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jul 02, 2017 10:56 pm

Gord wrote:I know how to spell it! :shakefist:

I should hope so! "It" is only two letters, after all. :nyaah:
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Gord » Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:13 pm

And I gawt it write.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Claudia Vasilievna Ustignia NDE a skeptical look

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:16 am

:cray: OW!!!
...it used to be so simple, once upon a time.
Because the universe was full of ignorance all around and the scientist panned through it like a prospector crouched over a mountain stream, looking for the gold of knowledge among the gravel of unreason, the sand of uncertainty, and the little whiskery eight-legged swimming things of superstition.
—Terry Pratchett, from Witches Abroad


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