Pope Benedict's second encyclical

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Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:51 pm

Yes, the guy came out with a piece of ... wisdom again and it's infallible.
In his latest encyclical he declares atheists and global warming bad, faith, I guess only the catholic one, is good.
Atheism, he said , is 'cruel and unjust'. This is from the head of the religious institution that had and used it's own army as well as the inquisition.
He also said ('pontificated' should be the word) that contrary to the claims of some people (atheists?) 'Heaven is not empty' and there sure is a place called Hell. Christians have a future in heaven but atheists...? I dunno :shock:

I guess the begining of the twenty first century is the time for truly stupid people to grab power, you know, all those presidents, senators, ayatollahs, grand muffis and the pope.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article2977564.ece
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:12 pm

It's not ex cathedra and therefore not held to be infallible.

That means that he or future Popes can change it later, like the no meat on Friday thing.

Not that he's likely to cut any slack for atheists, of course.
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:50 am

I thought that encyclicals are infallible??? What do you want I am an ex-catholic. It's well known that catholics don't know anything about the foundations of their own superstitions, the bible and the theology. Hey, the priests are there to tell them what to do. :lol:
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sat Dec 01, 2007 9:59 pm

Flash wrote:I thought that encyclicals are infallible??? What do you want I am an ex-catholic. It's well known that catholics don't know anything about the foundations of their own superstitions, the bible and the theology. Hey, the priests are there to tell them what to do. :lol:


The Pope is considered infallible only when he makes statements ex cathedra concerning faith or morals.

Those would become irrevocable Catholic doctrines on the order of the stuff derived from the Bible. No mere matters of policy, even long standing ones such as priestly celibacy, or the aforementioned rescinded meatless Friday.

Popes have used this "power" very sparingly, often in response to new conditions not obviously covered by existing doctrine.

Example: The prohibition on birth control pills. Non-obvious because unlike previous birth control methods, there is no spilling of seed.

Example: The assumption of Mary. A folk doctrine explicitly made an essential doctrine of the Church.

Example: Papal infallibility. Really. :lol:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Sat Dec 01, 2007 11:55 pm

Thanks Abdul. The term 'ex-cathedra' has to do with pope's official authority to deliver such silly dogmas as the one relating to the prohibition of birth control. So I guess, if the pope were to have been overheard while emptying a bottle of grappa with the locals at the neighbourhood Vatican trattoria saying "you know guys, we've really blown it with that birth control thing.." it wouldn't count for nothin' because although it was said ex-cathedra at the bar it was not "ex-cathedra". :mrgreen:
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Dec 02, 2007 2:53 am

Flash wrote:Thanks Abdul. The term 'ex-cathedra' has to do with pope's official authority to deliver such silly dogmas as the one relating to the prohibition of birth control. So I guess, if the pope were to have been overheard while emptying a bottle of grappa with the locals at the neighbourhood Vatican trattoria saying "you know guys, we've really blown it with that birth control thing.." it wouldn't count for nothin' because although it was said ex-cathedra at the bar it was not "ex-cathedra". :mrgreen:


:pr:
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Major Malfunction » Sun Dec 02, 2007 5:40 am

The thread title should be: "A guy that peddles fantasy to pay for his gold jewellery authorises a document that says non-subscribers are bad for business."

And what does removing urine bags have to do with Jeebuz?
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby St. Jimmy » Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:19 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Example: Papal infallibility. Really. :lol:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_infallibility


Wow, now there's some cirular justification for you.

This doctrine was defined dogmatically in the First Vatican Council of 1870.


Go to "defined dogmatically" and you find

In Catholicism, a dogmatic definition is an infallible statement published by a pope


The pope specially said that the pope could specially say things. What happened when the pope wanted to specially say things before the special saying way of saying things was specially said?
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:18 am

St. Jimmy:
The pope specially said that the pope could specially say things. What happened when the pope wanted to specially say things before the special saying way of saying things was specially said?

Well, he would say "I've told you guys not to do it" and he would send his Inquisition, Army, Jesuits, Spanish Armada, maybe even professional assassins or he would excommunicate the poor sap and the local bishops would send their Inquisition, Army, Jesuits, and some professional assassins. Example, the fate of Cathars and the Protestants in France. The system worked very well for centuries until... that damn Luther.
Seriously, where would the atheists be today without the Protestant Reformation?
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby St. Jimmy » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:04 pm

Flash wrote:Seriously, where would the atheists be today without the Protestant Reformation?


They'd probably be much better off in the US...
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Chachacha » Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:56 pm

Flash wrote:St. Jimmy:
The pope specially said that the pope could specially say things. What happened when the pope wanted to specially say things before the special saying way of saying things was specially said?

Well, he would say "I've told you guys not to do it" and he would send his Inquisition, Army, Jesuits, Spanish Armada, maybe even professional assassins or he would excommunicate the poor sap and the local bishops would send their Inquisition, Army, Jesuits, and some professional assassins. Example, the fate of Cathars and the Protestants in France. The system worked very well for centuries until... that damn Luther.
Seriously, where would the atheists be today without the Protestant Reformation?


I never looked at it that way before, Flash. I'm running out right now to get a "Have you thanked a Protestant today?" bumper sticker! :mrgreen:

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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:37 pm

St. Jimmy wrote:
Flash wrote:Seriously, where would the atheists be today without the Protestant Reformation?


They'd probably be much better off in the US...


Too contingent to be a meaningful speculation. There are too many different things that would have to not-happen for there to be no Reformation.
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:50 am

Well sure, it's not as if some aberrant monk gets hold of the hammer and nails and puts up his insane ideas on the door to the perfectly respectable cathedral in Wittenberg (I think). And everybody then says; "why didn't we think about it, let's become protestants right now".
This revolt against the pope and the catholic church has been brewing in Northern Europe for a long time. To put it in the academic, "The socio-political conditions for the reformation were just right" so that the dissatisfaction with the pope and the church must've been pretty widespread by that time.
But the fact remains that Martin Luther and company opened the Pandora's Box of religious beliefs together with some honestly god atheistic unbelief.
Also, that soon after a lot of ardent catholics and protestants managed to kill each other off did not hurt the progress of atheism either.
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Flash » Sat Dec 08, 2007 1:57 am

Chachacha:
I'm running out right now to get a "Have you thanked a Protestant today?" bumper sticker!
:mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Gerzel » Sun Dec 09, 2007 12:29 pm

As far as the atheist part well it is part of the man's job. He's supposed to boost the Catholic Church and Truly believe in God and the Catholic creeds. Therefore he is supposed to believe that atheism is wrong.

It is of more concern as to what the Catholic Church says to do to or about atheists.

He is supposed to believe in the Catholic Christian faith.

A believer in that faith can quite fairly and rightly think that spreading their faith to non-believers is helping those non-believers.

Note that just because it is fair and right to think something given one's beliefs does not mean that the thought resulting is fair and right itself.

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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:57 pm

Flash wrote:Chachacha:
I'm running out right now to get a "Have you thanked a Protestant today?" bumper sticker!
:mrgreen:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


And where would we be today if Henry VIII had a lower libido? :wink:
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Re: Pope Benedict's second encyclical

Postby St. Jimmy » Sun Dec 16, 2007 1:54 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
St. Jimmy wrote:
Flash wrote:Seriously, where would the atheists be today without the Protestant Reformation?


They'd probably be much better off in the US...


Too contingent to be a meaningful speculation. There are too many different things that would have to not-happen for there to be no Reformation.


Obviously. I was indulging. Good call.
And I'm not going to run the probabilistic lline of "Well they couldn't be much worse off" because that's just not true.
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