Huh! Prince died

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby gorgeous » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:50 pm

yes
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I have the best Prince stories. His antics were legendary in the music industry. He was simply bat-shit crazy and permanently "out of it". He wasn't that talented, yet told everyone he was.

Watching the continuing coverage of him, it looks like this is your own twisted position. Hard for me to judge as I don't particularly like his music: too "pop" oriented for this hard rock fan.........but ............ even your expression of not "that" talented tells me he was but you want to denigrate him for some reason.

Lets see............................. a music group manager ((Yes, I can't avoid the image of that guy in Flight of the Conchords or of Steven Merchant re Ricky Gervais)) who doesn't like the Guy that lead artists to become owners and promoters of their own creations. No possible bias there.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:23 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Watching the continuing coverage of him, it looks like this is your own twisted position.
Name the most important innovation brought to the music industry by Prince. :D

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: Lets see............................. a music group manager.
That's why I already know the answer to the above question. "Nothing". :D

Who made Prince famous? = "Warner Bros Records who owned all his master recordings."
What do record companies do. = "Make no-ones into stars"
Who issued press releases about Prince and his amazing talent? = "Warner Bros"
Who dumped Prince? = "Warner Bros"
Who was going bankrupt in 2010 and had to sell his properties? = "Prince"

Oddly people forget that Warner Bros was distributing another artist at the same time through their Swire sub-label, who was also the greatest most talented artist of all time, Madonna. In fact, according to Warner Bros press releases, everyone of their artists was the individually most talented gifted musician in the world simultaneously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIAZ8unRm2chttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vQaVIoEjOM
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:34 am

Matt.... thank you for proving my point, but it was made already. I stated Prince's innovation according to the news I've seen. Again....I don't follow the music bidness. It seems to be occupied by losers from start to finish.

MUSIC: a skill/talent set much like poetry I've always been happy to have so little talent regarding that I never wasted my life on it. Disappointing for Mom who was a concert violinist..........but kiddies are like that. Dad used to joke the only instrument he could play was the radio. He was always funny like that.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Aztexan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 2:38 am

When my son asked me who Prince was, I told him he was a talented guitarist, singer, songwriter, and musician. I said he wasn't as good as Hendrix, but he was good in his own right. Then I felt like I cheated his legacy and even the man himself. I told my son that the world lost another great musician. I also told him that it reminds me of how old I am getting when many of my childhood idols are dying. I really liked his music back then and I still do. You couldn't bang yer head to it but the girls loved it. You could get into it. Music never dies.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Flash » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:06 am

It turns out now that he left no will. :shock:

I've got to quickly go to the website that traces family connections. Who knows...he left 300 million bucks...just sitting there, lonely, waiting for a relative.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:18 am

Flash wrote:It turns out now that he left no will. :shock:

You don't need one, if liquidators are going after the remaining assets. That includes the mysterious hidden songs in some mysterious hidden vault, which would simply be auctioned off. Prince was forced to sell his investment properties off in 2010.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:51 am

Flash wrote:It turns out now that he left no will. :shock:

I've got to quickly go to the website that traces family connections. Who knows...he left 300 million bucks...just sitting there, lonely, waiting for a relative.

We are all related to one another......eventually. but in estates, it pretty much goes to the "nearest" relative usually in bulk. Spoken as a man with no known connection to........Minneapolis?
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:37 pm

Matt. I think you dont like Prince kuz he put a big dent in the record label'z control uv muzik.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:24 am

JO 753 wrote:Matt. I think you dont like Prince kuz he put a big dent in the record label'z control uv muzik.


Not really. Warner Bros kept the back catalogue for a decade, when he left and every time Prince performed live Warner Bros re-released the back catalogue, with no further advance to the artist fore recording & promotion. :D

Prince's last "indy" album only sold a million units. ( That's tiny and would not recover promotion and recording costs at "top shelf" budgets. )

My US music lawyer friend suggested that Prince had come to an arrangement with his creditors concerning the pending tour. Therefore "the will" including personal effects would be part of that creditor's settlement document. That's why there is no "will". That all makes sense and is not unusual.

I'd like people to remember that his biggest selling album, The Purple Rain Soundtrack album, was a Warner Bros soundtrack album tied to a Warner Bros movie and a remake of "A Star is Born". Prince was only famous because of Warner Bros maximising profit with a created star. Five years later they will make another unknown person "a popstar". Major Record labels have "popstar making systems". The actual artist himself is only has a three year life-span at Warner Bros unless he's a rock band with a "locked in" male following.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:29 am

JO 753 wrote:Matt. I think you dont like Prince kuz he put a big dent in the record label'z control uv muzik.


Warner Bros still distributed his later albums under a pressing and distribution deal ( P&D). The compositions were all still owned by Warner Bros Music Publishing. He never really left them. Warners simply did not invest in him as a direct signing as he spent too much and his sales were plummeting. Warner Bros was correct. Prince's last album flopped at a million units world wide.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:14 am

Iznt a million called platinum?

I had no idea he wuz so seksesful and prolific: Wiki - Prins discografy. Literally a mountain uv stuff!
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Flash » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:32 am

The newspapers say that Prince got aids somewhere (probably from a toilet seat, where else) and decided not to go to a doctor but to wait for god to cure him.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:52 am

JO 753 wrote:Iznt a million called platinum?
No A million full price albums is platinum. Discount or budget range don't count.

A record company first sweeps the market with a full price album. It then waits and sweeps again with a mid price on the same album. It then either goes budget price or leases individual recordings off to other labels for compilations.

However the first Prince album was a film soundtrack for a Warner Bros films. "Grease" the soundtrack album sold 39 million units at all price ranges. That's what sound track albums are made for. High volume sales.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:09 am

They really no how to maximize the harvest.

Flash wrote:The newspapers say that Prince got aids somewhere


Its a miracle that any rockerz frum the 80z are still alive.

I think he mentionz Prince in this vid:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAD6Obi7Cag
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 02, 2016 4:28 am

JO 753 wrote:Its a miracle that any rockerz frum the 80z are still alive.

That's a really interesting question.

I can only add one point. For long extended periods, the more talented entertainers had to sit in rooms, for weeks and weeks and weeks of song writing sessions, or rehearsal, or practising their musical instruments. They actually had to do work. The smarter professional musicians know that touring is exhausting. You walk off stage at 11pm, spend three hours talking to drunk record company hanger-on-ers. get five hours sleep and then go on a local Breakfast radio show at 8am to plug your next show in the next city.


I had two larger bands that banned drugs, alcohol and girlfriends from the tour group, however most bands just look after themselves or the show suffers.

(I played in a band for three years. (Bass player). I owned the truck, so I got to pack up everyone's gear and drive it home. At some inner city venues, you are not allowed to "load out" after 11pm, so I would sleep in the truck, load out, on my own at 6am, have a shower at home and go to work at 9am. When I was at night university studying accounting, I would go home from work at 6pm, prepare the van for the gig, go to uni, come back, drive to pick up the other band members, set up and then play then get ready to sleep in the truck again. When the band took off and got a week night residency I had to quit because my body simply could not take it any more.)
The band.jpg

Needless to say the band continued on successfully without me. The lead singer stopped sleeping with me and started sleeping with the keyboard player. She now sleeps with the ex guitarist. I became an accountant and got my first job......in the music industry. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iZC3DrhscI&index=4&list=PL80A8D225A469D58E
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Flash » Mon May 02, 2016 5:40 am

JO 753 wrote:
Its a miracle that any rockerz frum the 80z are still alive.

They are alive but a lot of them need new body parts; knee and hips replaced, livers and hearts transplanted...being a rocker is a hard job but somebody's got to do it.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Mon May 02, 2016 8:54 am

Aids, drugz, booz, sigarettes, bad nutrition. Almost az bad az factory work!
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 02, 2016 3:16 pm

it is normal for singers to lose sales as they age...at 57 a million sold is very good...how many does Madonna sell? their fans age, their taste in music changes... --------Rebel Heart album sales to date : Madonna - Reddit

https://www.reddit.com/r/Madonna/.../re ... s_to_date/

Oct 24, 2015 - U.S. album sales showed a total of 212,000, with the majority of those (150k) ... -------------but here------Madonna's Rebel Heart Tour: $20 Million Earned ... - Billboard

http://www.billboard.com/articles/.../m ... r-grosse...

Billboard --------------Madonna sales ----'I'm Going To Tell You A Secret' (2006) 0,8 million
'Confessions Tour' (2007) 1,3 million
'Hard Candy' (2008) 4 million
'Celebration' (2009) 2,5 million
'Sticky & Sweet Tour' (2010) 0,5 million
'MDNA' (2012) 2 million
'MDNA World Tour' (2013) 0,3 million
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 02, 2016 11:16 pm

gorgeous wrote:it is normal for singers to lose sales as they age..
......and when they are dumped by their record company who also made movies.

gorgeous wrote: at 57 a million sold is very good.
[ ......considering a third of these sales are budget-price soundtrack albums for the Warner Bros movie Purple Rain and Batman.....before they dumped Prince.

My tax client was Paul Field, the manager of The Wiggles. The Wiggles have sold 32,000,000 music albums. Never underestimate a music album sold in connection with another cross promoting media.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DK7Y6cmDe6I

May I remind everyone that Princes second biggest selling album was the soundtrack for Warner Bros first Batman movie.
Prince as Joker.jpg
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby gorgeous » Mon May 02, 2016 11:19 pm

kids albums are different than pop or rock ...
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon May 02, 2016 11:31 pm

gorgeous wrote:kids albums are different than pop or rock ...
No. I work in the music industry. You don't.

The managing director of Sony USA will ask each morning: How many full price units and downloads did we sell today?

He doesn't give a rat's arse what is actually recorded on those units.


(The inherent rule of thumb is production & marketing costs is 12% to 15% of the published price to dealer before Jacket deduction (PPD) for each sold unit. If the product is tied to a television show or movie, that drops to 5% due to cross promotional advertising)

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Tue May 03, 2016 6:05 pm

Matt, I believ you are a man who never wunderd why a tube uv toothpaste costs 4 buks.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 04, 2016 12:14 am

JO 753 wrote:Matt, I believ you are a man who never wunderd why a tube uv toothpaste costs 4 buks.


The music industry is a unique thing. When I buy a tube of tooth paste, I get the same product every time, year after year after year. However the same band can deliver a terrible show on one night and a brilliant gig on the following night. For this reason there are all these additional "risk loadings" built into the profit margins of individual concert runs. Therefore by concert promoters joining up and hedging their profits together, they can reduce one-off isolated high variables and enjoy an average good return. This is what I used to do, in assisting these sorts of clients in forming hedging partnerships on profit & loss exposure.

So Jo,........I do wonder about the cost of tooth paste and therefore studied to understand economics, at university.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Wed May 04, 2016 1:23 am

Wu?! Did I over estimate your grasp uv the jiant money machine?

An ordinary chump like me mite see a 20 ft tall vat full uv tooth paste ingredients being churned in a factory with rowz uv such tanks and booggledy mindedly realize there are millionz uv tubez worth in each and think 'it must cost them 1/100 uv a penny to make a tubez worth!!!

You, I woud expect, hav a fine awareness uv all the advertizing, marketing, promotion, deal making that bloat and multiply the prise at every step between the factory door and the grosery store checkout, much uv it involving TV showz, muzik and other types uv entertainment.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 04, 2016 1:59 am

JO 753 wrote: You, I woud expect, hav a fine awareness uv all the advertizing, marketing, promotion, deal making that bloat and multiply the prise at every step between the factory door and the grosery store checkout, much uv it involving TV showz, muzik and other types uv entertainment.


OK Fair comment. Stable consumer commodities like tooth paste use advertising and marketing. I'm a production accountant, so I see the total cost as a mix of fixed costs (admin & marketing) and (per unit) variable production cost. That's how you separate out your spreadsheets when budgeting.

However a live band or a CD album is not a stable consumer commodity. The campaign is different every time to match the one off product. It is a nightmare to budget. That's why I do not work with pop stars and only work with established bands and entertainers, so I can predict profit and manage the business affairs with some certainty.

However, as a record company works with 30 to 60 recording artists simultaneously, the high volatility of sales experienced by individual artists is averaged out across the entire set of artists. Therefore the $24,99 you pay at retail is really paying for the 24 artists who lost the record company money and the four remaining artists who made the record company money.

Interestingly this did not change when digital downloading occurred. Radiohead tried to sell its own album and failed because it simply could not market internationally like an international record company.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Wed May 04, 2016 7:53 am

I suppoz youre rite, kuz I never herd much about them after Pablo Honey.

My point about the toothpaste iz that a big chunk uv the entertainment industry iz payed for by advertizing. How much uv Prince'z 300,000,000$ came frum toothpaste? How much duz that break down to per tube?

A typical monthly XFinity cable bill iz 180$ around here. Much uv that iz to pay lisensing feez to content providerz who still load az many commercialz az they think we will tolerate during a show. So, on top uv the exorbitant monthly payment, everything the cable customer buyz at the store that iz being advertized on TV iz more expensiv to cover that cost.

I dont hav cable TV anymore, but I'm still paying 70$ for internet. Comcast runz their XFinity commercialz all the time on broadcast TV wich meanz I'm paying for their advertizing every month directly and indirectly with many uv the itemz I buy.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 05, 2016 4:11 am

JO 753 wrote:My point about the toothpaste iz that a big chunk uv the entertainment industry iz payed for by advertizing. How much uv Prince'z 300,000,000$ came frum toothpaste?
Prince was bankrupt and had entered into an agreement to satisfy creditors from the forthcoming tour. He was forced to sell his investment properties in 2010 and leased back Paisley Park to allow for the ongoing tour, as part of the creditors arrangement. He didn't leave a will because his assets were already issued as security in the creditors arrangement document.

I have no idea why people thing Prince had $300,000,000 in the bank while simultaneously watching him sell off his properties, to satisfy creditors in 2010.


JO 753 wrote:How much duz that break down to per tube?
I don't know. I was a production accountant in the film, TV and entertainment industry. I had a special calculator that worked out costs based on shoot ratios. (Film contains silver and is very expensive. If a director shoots at "20 to 1", that means he shoots 20 feet of film for each foot that ends up on screen. Therefore the old style Hollywood producers hired directors who shoot at "10 to 1" as this saves buckets of money. Video is sort of the same, in that an editor has to review all the video footage. Therefore if a video is shot at 20:1 the editor spends twice as much time reviewing compared to a video shoot at "10 to 1". My head is full of lots of peculiar ratios, that I use in meetings, to check if I'm being told the truth.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Thu May 05, 2016 4:37 am

Thats interesting. The newz iz consistently saying 300 million. 1 reporter sed 'estimates ranje between 100,000,000 and 1 billion'.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 05, 2016 5:02 am

JO 753 wrote:Thats interesting. The newz iz consistently saying 300 million. 1 reporter sed 'estimates ranje between 100,000,000 and 1 billion'.


How on earth could Prince have a billion dollars?

His last "big" album sold a million units. Let's say it sold at $17 (Published Price to dealer with no label Jacket deduction).
His maximum artist royalty at 18% PPD would be $3
His publishing royalty at AMCOS mechanical rates would be about $1.50

$4.5 x 1,000,000 = $4.5 million gross revenue.

From that gross revenue Prince would have to recoup
2 x Film clips at $250,000 = $500,000
Recording costs including producer and session artists $200,000
His marketing campaign. Let's say $300,000.00


In the best possible scenario Prince walks away with $3.5million for this album. However, the next two Prince albums Stiffed (Went down with tiny sales) Therefore out of that 3.5million from the last "big' album Prince would have to pay the same outgoings for the next two albums. That mean prince only made $1.5million. That's why he was bankrupt.

Prince only played 14 gigs in 2014, 33 gigs in 2013, 8 shows in 2012.............See what I mean? No big tour revenue!
https://sites.google.com/site/princetourhistory/

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby JO 753 » Thu May 05, 2016 9:07 am

You dont no about The Faucet?

Everybody who reachez 'megastar' status in America gets a special tube installed in their bedroom clozet that dispensez 100$ billz at the turn uv a valv.
They can just leav it running all the time if they want and most do. It gets to be a tiresum chore shoveling out the clozet wen it fillz up, so they either haf to hire sumwun or, God forbid, only uze it az fast az they can spend.
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby gorgeous » Thu May 05, 2016 10:31 pm

reports say the govt will get half of the money......and how Madonna is more than a singer, she has her own label and also Hard Candy Fitness centers around the world...so she won't likely go bankrupt...
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 05, 2016 11:42 pm

gorgeous wrote:reports say the govt will get half of the money......
That's how the IRS collects money from these sort of creditor arrangements under Chapter 11. I assume everyone remembers Willie Nelsons deal with the IRS? He owed them 16 million in 1990.

"The IRS Tapes: Who'll Buy My Memories? is an album by American country and western singer Willie Nelson. The album, featuring only Nelson and his guitar, was released in 1992 to pay Nelson's tax debt with the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). Initially, the album was only distributed by phone order, but later negotiations with Sony Music saw it being distributed in stores. The album generated US$3.6 million for the IRS, who requested a further US$9 million from Nelson to satisfy his debts. It was well received by critics."


Maverick Records
gorgeous wrote:and how Madonna is more than a singer, she has her own label ...so she won't likely go bankrupt...

"By the early 2000s, Maverick saw its commercial fortunes decline and business operations financially unravel. In March 2004, the label and Madonna filed suit against Warner Music Group (and its former parent company, Time Warner), claiming that mismanagement of resources and poor bookkeeping had cost the company millions of dollars. Warner filed a countersuit, alleging that Maverick had lost tens of millions of dollars on its own"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maverick_(company)#Maverick_Records

Maverick is now owned by a concert touring company and is no longer a label but a merchandising company. Madonna's last album sold 350,000 units before dying. Madonna is no longer a significant recording artist.

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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby gorgeous » Thu May 05, 2016 11:57 pm

her tour made 20 million
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Re: Huh! Prince died

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri May 06, 2016 12:11 am

gorgeous wrote:her tour made 20 million
No. It grossed 82 million with a very normal 5% profit retention of $4.1 million for her and the band.

Do you know the difference between "gross revenue" and "net profit"?

Madonna is no longer a recording artist. She is a touring entertainer, like Neil Diamond, Billy Joel or Fleetwood Mac who all had bigger turnover tours than Madonna in 2015. There is nothing wrong with that.


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