The neverending Jenner saga

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The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Flash » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:46 pm

http://on.aol.ca/video/caitlyn-jenner-reveals-kris-jenner--mistreated--her-while-married-518861524

The shining and very much walking advertisement for the modern hormone chemistry Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner just won't fade into the sunset. He/she is a living proof that Andy Warhol was all wrong. After getting their fifteen minutes of fame they want and often get more. And the most assured way to get it is to talk trash, you know BS.

The sad fact about the infotainment media nowadays is that once you've made the grade by, let's say by turning yourself chemically into a turnip in a kind of first on the planet, all you need is a load of BS every so often, just to stay in the limelight.

So, in a continuing saga of the frog that became a prince who then turned into a... something, "Caitlyn" Jenner has revealed to the entire world that she had been abused by her wife. Can't wait what will become of this but in the meantime in order to lessen the pain, please somebody help to knock me out with say... a magic mushroom or something.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:02 am

Why do you read about it if you can't stand the message? :heh:
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Flash » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:06 am

I am a news addict Gord. When my cable goes down I suffer an attack of something...I don't know what it is, but it's bad. They kick me out of the house until the cable is fixed. There...I confessed.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:31 am

But...but this isn't news! It's just gossip. And not even very interesting gossip.

Here, read some news instead: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/pass- ... y-1.663264

:heh:
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:25 pm

Gord wrote:But...but this isn't news! It's just gossip. And not even very interesting gossip.

Here, read some news instead: http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/pass- ... y-1.663264

:heh:

Not that it's remotely possible, Gord…. I am most certainly wrong, (and foolhardy to even jump in here)… but you might , as a scientist of sorts and surely a Darwinist, be off the mark here.
Certainly the brouhaha surrounding Jenner's sexual identity old and new has the tinge of unfortunate gossip and worse, prurience..
But the fact of transgenderism which does exist and has always existed, but rarely seriously examined is both interesting and important….
We do accept without question that there are but two genders that are required for the perpetuation of the species.
And we do accept that each gender is defined by the parts, visible and not, that pertain to the reproductive process: our sexual organs, within and without, our hormones.
We have never seriously pursued, perhaps because of political correctness, the suspected but ignored immense part the brain plays in determining who and what we are, exceeding by far the tangible "evidence" of the penis v. the vagina.
Clearly in the case of Jenner and apparently so many other humans (and perhaps other animals as well) a powerful and mysterious glitch has occurred, that both baffles and worse, embarrasses us: what we see and what is taking place as interior demands, are at odds in a most peculiar way.

But this case , perhaps because of Bruce Jenner's immense fame and his fortune having its basis in his extraordinary prowess as a male athlete and the the vision of the ultimate male that has existed in Western society since the splendid "Discuss Player," in Greek art celebrating the male, has made headlines that force us to acknowledge that we have missed something in our relationship with nature v. nurture.

Jenner with his paradigmatic male body in all its glory, his three marriages and the resultant SIX children does certainly bring to the fore the reality that with all our talk as a species and our emphasis on physical beauty AND process, we really don't know very much about the intricacies of what makes YOU a man and what makes ME a woman….

So called "Feminists" are appalled (and perhaps frightened) by the suggestion that again "the brain's the thing!!
And after generations of struggling to establish that there is no difference between the male and female brains,they are understandably (if not in the mode of scientific inquiry) both rattled AND enraged by what appears to be true (by virtue of Jenner's chaotic but clearly sincere avowal) that there is a vast difference between how the male perceives himself and his biological and social role than the way a woman does,.
And that it is definitely not because the ideas surrounding identity are inculcated in us from birth and the first look at those exterior organs, by our parents or our society…(although that too is a consideration)
And that that difference is still unexplored, mysterious and the cause of pain and sorrow within a serious number of our fellow men and women.
Clearly because there is something (still mysterious) related to identity that is triggered in the brain.. hormones being a part, but not all of the process,
And the mystery..
So the now seemingly synthetic tabloid encouraged news is STILL news.
And as much as anything that makes us think and in this case about the scientific research still needed to tells us what and what we are, what we are made of , and possibly WHY…. is GOOD NEWS at that.
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P.S. Gord: So sorry about the lack of links that would probably, should it have occurred to me to look for some, make my comment more authoritative..
But it was not meant to be authoritative… rather, much like your own comment, just my opinions (based on both observation AND experience),
Although produced in my (definitely female) brain.
Try to use your definitely (I assume) male brain to accept and forgive.

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Gord » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:00 pm

:facepalm:

I'm talking about the differentiation of news from gossip. Just because gossip makes us cognizant of the existence of news is no reason to rely on said gossip for the dispensation of said news. My link was then a joke about calling it "news" when in fact the article to which I linked is almost entirely "gossip".
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 4:52 pm

Gord wrote::facepalm:

I'm talking about the differentiation of news from gossip. Just because gossip makes us cognizant of the existence of news is no reason to rely on said gossip for the dispensation of said news. My link was then a joke about calling it "news" when in fact the article to which I linked is almost entirely "gossip".

And I'm talking about how the difference between 'news" and "gossip" is in the mind of the beholder or the listener or the reader.

Or let me put it another way: one man's NEWS is another man's "who won the fifth race at Belmont today? "

Where exactly, Gord, do you think you are at this very moment? The BBC news room?
Even there it's often hard to sift the trivia (not to mention the dissimulation) from actual information related to what occurs in the real world.
And here in the hallowed halls of Foorum, you tacitly accept as fact (hard news) what is clearly fictional (gossip).
But you do it selectively.
So I'm not sure exactly where your protestations are coming from.
Flash may have been indulging in his chosen sarcasm, but he was telling you something with in it: that the sad, disconcerting, and surprising story of Bruce Jenner, American hero, is still a matter of consternation, misconception, as well as the titillation that are still attached to anything having to do with matters of human, no, animal sexuality…


NMB

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby xouper » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:40 am

Gord wrote::facepalm:

I'm talking about the differentiation of news from gossip. Just because gossip makes us cognizant of the existence of news is no reason to rely on said gossip for the dispensation of said news. My link was then a joke about calling it "news" when in fact the article to which I linked is almost entirely "gossip".

If it's any consolation, Gord, some of us immediately got your clever and witty remark. When I first saw what was at your link, I actually laughed out loud, and then forgot to hit the thanks button. I always look forward to reading more of your intellectual humor.

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:45 am

U funny, xoup. :-P


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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Gord » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:25 am

xouper wrote:If it's any consolation, Gord....

I guess it is. If I were capable of feeling emotions, I'm sure I'd be satisfied.

nmblum wrote:Where exactly, Gord, do you think you are at this very moment?

The far side of the moon, Norma Blum, the far side of the moon.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Thu Jun 18, 2015 3:29 pm

I find it disturbing hearing Jenner and others refer to their other 'self' as he/her...it sounds like multiple personalities ....that after a sex change they are often still suicidal shows it may all be disorders , not their 'true' self....and the men changing to females ----it seems to be all about dressing up, wearing makeup, looking pretty...
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Cadmusteeth » Thu Jun 18, 2015 4:38 pm

What Jenner has is called gender identity disorder. Here's a link https://www.psychologytoday.com/conditi ... y-disorder

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 2:12 am

Ian Halperin, the author of “Kardashian Dynasty: The Controversial Rise of America’s Royal Family,” said that, while researching his book, multiple sources told him that the former Olympian had been miserable for months and has considered transitioning back to a man.

“One source confirmed to me Caitlyn has made whispers of ‘sex change regret,’ hinting she might go back to being Bruce Jenner,” Halperin said.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 2:13 am

If it is a disorder....mental illness ...why are mentally ill people forcing society to change laws to cater to them?
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 31, 2016 2:38 am

Flash wrote:I am a news addict Gord. When my cable goes down I suffer an attack of something...I don't know what it is, but it's bad. They kick me out of the house until the cable is fixed. There...I confessed.

Ha, ha. Lots of wisdom in just listening.........to yourself. To the degree you ARE addicted....you should work to relieve your condition so that when engaged it is most pleasurable? I admit to a tinge of it myself. I consider myself blessed though that, say on vacations, I can switch to reading paperback books without a dropped note....but if news/tv is available, it always gains my interest. That is sad....given how much better books are. Maybe...........I should listen to myself????

but I post to disagree with you. You got some degree of anti-ambiguous sexuality going on that is NOT very empathetic. You and all other haters should be happy. Happy you don't have the same issues in your own life? Just saw an archive of Dr Carson (a freaking DOCTOR for Keerhist Sakes!) saying that becoming a homosexual was a choice as PROVEN by men coming out of prison as gay. The stupidity runs deep in our culture.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Flash » Tue May 31, 2016 3:37 am

Bobbo the Pragmatist wrote:
You got some degree of anti-ambiguous sexuality going on that is NOT very empathetic. You and all other haters should be happy. Happy you don't have the same issues in your own life? Just saw an archive of Dr Carson (a freaking DOCTOR for Keerhist Sakes!) saying that becoming a homosexual was a choice as PROVEN by men coming out of prison as gay. The stupidity runs deep in our culture.

No Bobbo, you are wrong. I am not against people who are ambiguous sexually and not against homosexuals.
During my life I had plenty of opportunity to observe transgender children and I could see clearly the problems these people had with finding and asserting their own sexual identity. Certainly, I would be the last person critical of the people who have problems adjusting to the supposedly bipolar world of gender identity.

No! But I am critical of shameless grab at publicity, self promotion and money by Jenner. We all are what we are sexually speaking. Some of us are more male or more female than they would like perhaps but we've got to live with ourselves. Cutting off the genitals,taking tones of hormones and dressing in pretty clothes will not make him a woman no matter how hard he tries. It will though put him in front of the cameras and make him what he maybe missed most, a celebrity.The fact is that he will always be this transgender person he emerged from childhood as and which he now clearly rejects.

You see, it's Jenner himself who wants to see the world of clearly defined genders and no ambiguity. He does everything to be of single gender, a woman without the baggage of transgender identity. Strange isn't it?

And BTW the latest news from this character is that he is to pose naked in some porno magazine or something. {!#%@}, I would rather see my dead grandparents posing naked than this self promotion specialist.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue May 31, 2016 3:53 am

Flash wrote: After getting their fifteen minutes of fame they want and often get more. And the most assured way to get it is to talk trash, you know BS.
In TV production in Australia we call this "bloodsport". Some TV shows only existed because they pushed the envelope of good taste. The "Young Ones" kept pushing that envelope and eventually had no where further to go. The show died.

This Jenner fellow had a sex reassignment operation to maintain his fame. Now he wants to remain famous by saying he's going to change back. He's running out of things to do to maintain fame.

Never produce a TV show that relies on this new episode being more outrageous than the previous episode. The show has a very short lifespan.


Flash wrote: by turning yourself chemically into a turnip in a kind of first on the planet, all you need is a load of BS every so often, just to stay in the limelight.
Absolutely true. Where could Paris Hilton go after releasing videos of herself giving a blow job?

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 31, 2016 5:03 am

Flash wrote:Cutting off the genitals,taking tones of hormones and dressing in pretty clothes will not make him a woman no matter how hard he tries.
THERE it is. Rate your statement on the empathetic scale?

If you want to talk about PUBLICITY..........THEN use those words.

If you want to talk about MONEY..............THEN use those words.

But you talk about cutting off genitals and with a very set ideation of what "a woman" is.

Flash: you be a bit mixed up. You got some of the right ideas, but they are mixed to and fro with the bad ones too. ......... Well, it'll give you something to think about ......... if you wish.

The best of us hardly know ourselves. Denigrating others assuming we have enough info/insight to do so..... several steps too far.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 2:18 pm

I don't believe Jenner had his genitals cut off.. there were reports he didn't..--------Caitlyn Jenner Reveals If She'll Have Gender Reassignment Surgery

hollywoodlife.com/.../caitlyn-jenner-gender-reassignmen...

Hollywood Life

Apr 18, 2016 - Caitlyn Jenner, 66, welcomed Dr. Marci Bowers, 58, a transgender woman and friend of Jenny Boylan's, 58, into her house to discuss whether she would have gender confirmation surgery on the latest episode of I Am Cait.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue May 31, 2016 3:14 pm

Flash wrote:Bobbo the Pragmatist wrote:
You got some degree of anti-ambiguous sexuality going on that is NOT very empathetic. You and all other haters should be happy. Happy you don't have the same issues in your own life? Just saw an archive of Dr Carson (a freaking DOCTOR for Keerhist Sakes!) saying that becoming a homosexual was a choice as PROVEN by men coming out of prison as gay. The stupidity runs deep in our culture.

No Bobbo, you are wrong. I am not against people who are ambiguous sexually and not against homosexuals.
During my life I had plenty of opportunity to observe transgender children and I could see clearly the problems these people had with finding and asserting their own sexual identity. Certainly, I would be the last person critical of the people who have problems adjusting to the supposedly bipolar world of gender identity.

No! But I am critical of shameless grab at publicity, self promotion and money by Jenner. We all are what we are sexually speaking. Some of us are more male or more female than they would like perhaps but we've got to live with ourselves. Cutting off the genitals,taking tones of hormones and dressing in pretty clothes will not make him a woman no matter how hard he tries. It will though put him in front of the cameras and make him what he maybe missed most, a celebrity.The fact is that he will always be this transgender person he emerged from childhood as and which he now clearly rejects.

You see, it's Jenner himself who wants to see the world of clearly defined genders and no ambiguity. He does everything to be of single gender, a woman without the baggage of transgender identity. Strange isn't it?

And BTW the latest news from this character is that he is to pose naked in some porno magazine or something. {!#%@}, I would rather see my dead grandparents posing naked than this self promotion specialist.

Yeah,
Problems with identity doesnt absolve Jenner of the charracter flaws we all have. That includes seeking attention for the sake of vainity.

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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 31, 2016 4:08 pm

I dunno. I'd think his vanity cup ran over a long time ago. I have only channel surfed the kardashians reality show. In my 4 minutes total, Bruce looked kinda quiet and reserved. If I had to guess, and a PURE guess this is, I'd suspect need/desire for $$$$. You know: the root of all evil.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 4:15 pm

I don't think it was for money...attention maybe, and confusion, maybe sincere at the time...his ex has---Why Kris Jenner is well worth the $100 million payday | New York Post

nypost.com/.../why-kris-jenner-is-well-worth-the-100-mil...

New York Post
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 31, 2016 4:39 pm

gorgeous wrote:I don't think it was for money...attention maybe, and confusion, maybe sincere at the time...his ex has---Why Kris Jenner is well worth the $100 million payday | New York Post

nypost.com/.../why-kris-jenner-is-well-worth-the-100-mil...

New York Post

What evidence or value or insight do you base this on? I "should" go to the link first I suppose, but its not active....and...I rarely link for info on celebrities or vips. Indeed....why feed their vanity???
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 4:50 pm

they have a ton of money
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 31, 2016 5:07 pm

They/He have and have always had a ton of attention as well. Your differential diagnosis is?
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 31, 2016 5:16 pm

he didn't get much attention...was always in the background...he was the Olympic champ...what did they do on that level?
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:20 am

Gorgeous: you have jumped horses midstream. FOCUS. The subject is BRUCE JENNER, not the Kardashians.

"He didn't get much attention.....was always in the background..." IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED BY: "he was the Olympic champ." /// Does that not strike you as inconsistent...WITHIN the very idea you want to champion? He was on the wheaty box for years.

Interesting your posts even as short as they are make no more sense on this subject than they do on Woo....Instructive because it is not the subject(s) you choose to post on that Matt reviews so well...... its actually...... you.

Reviewing the last few posts...I see you do confuse Jenner with the Kardashians pretty much from the start. You equate Bruce's desire for attention with Kris Jenners money. total confusion.

Just like Woo: we don't "know" so argue without doubt and confuse 3-4 issues together.

Just look.
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Re: The neverending Jenner saga

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:05 am

Flash wrote: But I am critical of shameless grab at publicity, self promotion and money by Jenner.

There would be a faceless team of TV network producers telling Jenner to be more and more outrageous. I'd like to point out that it is the network who is making money and calling the shots. The Kardasians, as individuals are irrelevant and it is this TV genre that is the initiating cause.

How did we arrive at this sort of TV genre?

I can see separate 60's genre's all merging together. We have the "fly on the wall" genre that arrived with "Alan Funt's Candid Camera". Then we have the 50's scandal newspapers, where unknown actors "get caught" sleeping with waitresses, as a way to launch their career from nothing. Then we have the "I'm glad that's not me" from the UK Seven Up series, where we see the aspirations of people fail in the face of basic reality.

However I mostly blame "Days of Our Lives". This 70's US TV show was shot without scripts but rather "story guidelines". The actors would ad lib scenes and conclude their pieces with a question "Doesn't that mean Brittney will be released by the pirates in time for her prom?" It is my opinion that the Kardasians are produced for TV like the actors in "Days of Our Lives". It even looks and feels the same.

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