Sally Morgan's Thugs

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fromthehills
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Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:36 pm

http://goodthinkingsociety.org/projects ... ess-month/

Mr. Morgan seems to fancy himself a tough guy. I think Octopus and Poodle should go rough him up a bit.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby kennyc » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:41 pm

How come psychics have to resort to physical violence. Can't they just use their minds?
:roll:
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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:52 pm

I think I'd rather get punched than mind {!#%@}.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:34 pm

fromthehills wrote:http://goodthinkingsociety.org/projects/psychic-awareness-month/

Mr. Morgan seems to fancy himself a tough guy. I think Octopus and Poodle should go rough him up a bit.


Yeah… two of the more persuasive voices for reason in the UK.
But no matter.
More important:
Is there nothing so insignificant, so trivial, so non-germane to logic and reason that it won't make its way here?
For what reason?
Yeah, the quackery of the psychic is irritating.
But it has already been made fun of by masters of humor.
And it has been thoroughly debunked by science…. and (imagine!!) more thoroughly and with much more evidence than has ever been provided here.
But none of that has made the slightest inroad among people who for whatever reason of want or need, seek the comfort that neither science nor humor at human foibles can supply.
And while it is true (at least to me) that those poor deluded people are more to be pitied than scorned, it is also clear that the harangues of so-called skeptics are not going to make an ounce of difference…. no matter what contempt OR proof is heaped upon the popularity of psychics… or their practices.
So wouldn't it be more worth all "our" whiles, to try to find out why "our" view of the way the world works is so much less palatable to so many humans, than are the inane alternatives provided by quacks? Or Popes? Or Rabbis? Or Republicans?
How to make my objections clearer?
Well, what I mean, FTH, that it's one thing for a man to lose his wife to Cary Grant…
But when he loses her to Quasimodo, or Caliban, or even to a Republican , it should raise the flag of "where have I gone wrong?"
Or "what can I do or learn to say, that would make her see ME as more desirable (or dependable)?"

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:38 pm

kennyc wrote:How come psychics have to resort to physical violence. Can't they just use their minds?
:roll:


Do you mean that Psychics could just start screaming " Stupid!! Moron!! Idiot!! Get out of here and start learning something!!?"
Like that?
The Kenny Way of using the mind?

After which they could just start waving around their shriveled yellow balls?
LOL… When can the treatise on how well THAT works, be expected to be self-published and for sale on Amazon.com?

NMB .
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:44 pm

You, dear Norma? Self appointed defender of freedom of speech don't see the point of bullies threatening a man with physical harm for passing out leaflets? Then you come here to scold me for expressing my own interest in it?

Very odd, and disappointing.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 1:47 pm

fromthehills wrote:I think I'd rather get punched than mind {!#%@}.



YOu can be both…
And often at the same time, by the same adversary….

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:19 pm

fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? Self appointed defender of freedom of speech don't see the point of bullies threatening a man with physical harm for passing out leaflets? Then you come here to scold me for expressing my own interest in it?

Very odd, and disappointing.


I wouldn't blame you for being disappointed (to the extent that I was aware you cared enough about my opinions to be disappointed in one of them, accurately read or not) if I had been defending either the psychics OR their physical abuse of their detractors.
But I was not… and what's more I suspect you know that.
(I didn't think I had to announce at this late date, that I find any form of physical violence not only abhorrent but self-defeating as far as the stifling of an idea is concerned.)
Yes, psychics are repellent, even frightening, certainly dishonest, and it is not at all surprising that given numbers or opportunity they would resort to physical violence.
What I am deriding, FTH, is this business of making ourselves (used loosely, but referring to so-called skeptics ) models of intellectual and moral superiority over the deprived, the untutored, the desperate, the sad and the lost , when we seem to be thrashing about ourselves…
WHY do YOU think the struggle to impart the superiority of rationality, of logic, of learning over faith, including faith in the business of the psychic, or the Scientologist, or the conventional voice from the conventional pulpit, is making so little progress?

Can we shift the conversation to that?
I assume that you agree that while in certain parts of the industrialized West, organized religion are losing in numbers, it is not always clear whether people are defecting to rationality over faith, or just giving up church to take up looking into crystal balls, or reading tea leaves… or whatever it is that makes them feel safer than they would be by just accepting the world as it is (or how "WE" see it).
And by the way, doesn't it seem significant to you that while among Christians and Jews membership in conventional congregations is dwindling, alternate, not always formalized observance is flourishing.
And of course, Islam is gaining thousands of new converts daily.
Doesn't that mean something?
Perhaps that there is something in surrendering to faith that we should try to more successfully understand so that we can make more effective forays against it?


NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:33 pm

Yes. That and Sally Morgan's husband likes to bully people for passing out educational material on psychics. Which was the point of me starting this thread. I see Octopus beat me to it, now. But the subject isn't about new converts to Islam, or to New Age Occultism. It's about a mountebank and her wannabe thug of a husband and son-in-law.

If you bring up the latest news on Islam, and I start talking about race cars in response, you'd think me a bit daft.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:56 pm

nmblum wrote:I assume that you agree that while in certain parts of the industrialized West, organized religion are losing in numbers, it is not always clear whether people are defecting to rationality over faith, or just giving up church to take up looking into crystal balls, or reading tea leaves… or whatever it is that makes them feel safer than they would be by just accepting the world as it is (or how "WE" see it).
And by the way, doesn't it seem significant to you that while among Christians and Jews membership in conventional congregations is dwindling, alternate, not always formalized observance is flourishing.
And of course, Islam is gaining thousands of new converts daily.
Doesn't that mean something?
Perhaps that there is something in surrendering to faith that we should try to more successfully understand so that we can make more effective forays against it?

NMB

Why do the masses need an opiate? Will any opiate do, or does the opiate need certain characteristics? Is there one reason or many; applying one to this type of personality and another to that?

Shamanism is the world's oldest profession; but I see little resemblance between shamanism and modern religions. Psychics seem more like the modern version of a shaman. They provide similar services.

I wonder how shamans dealt with naysayers 40,000 years ago.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby Gord » Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:58 pm

Can't we worry about more than one thing going on in the world?

Here, Norma, sign a couple of petitions with me:

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron- ... hehghavami
https://www.change.org/p/stand-with-me- ... -education

Doing so won't detract from your crusade to do whatever else it is you feel you should be solely focused upon.
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"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:24 pm

fromthehills wrote:Yes. That and Sally Morgan's husband likes to bully people for passing out educational material on psychics. Which was the point of me starting this thread. I see Octopus beat me to it, now. But the subject isn't about new converts to Islam, or to New Age Occultism. It's about a mountebank and her wannabe thug of a husband and son-in-law.

If it's about one mountebank and her actual (rather than wannabe) thug of her husband, it is awful behavior.
I thought you meant it as a sign of a breakdown in the British social compact, another example of physical violence being inflicted on people of alternate views…
As well as a rise in what is after all criminal behavior and the stuff of police reports.
I was addressing the fact that humans who are essentially irrational will, under stress, behave irrationally and resort to anti-social behavior.


If you bring up the latest news on Islam, and I start talking about race cars in response, you'd think me a bit daft..

No.. I would never think you were daft, based on the flimsy evidence of one strange departure from making sense.
I might even think that because of your reputation for making sense ( that y ou are not after all, to me "a drunk and a moron") that I could be missing something valuable in what I didn't quire understand … or at least give you the benefit of the doubt.
But that nicety aside, there is nothing irrelevant about the fact that religion or the alternate craziness of any of the mind {!#%@} businesses that involve a great deal of money, have the danger of physical violence being used in their defense… or their offensives..
There is said to be safety in numbers, but what there really is in number is the potential for gang behavior: one person claiming to have imaginary credentials, for example, in science is a charlatan, and perhaps an irritation.
Two or three? Already prepared to do battle.
Five? You might want to look into a witness protection program (as my granddaughter suggests to me when she reads about me here.)
A dozen? Krytalnacht.

I will say this though.. I'm not proud to have gotten involved in this conversation.
I thought it was, in the great scheme of both the propensity to mindless or criminal violence as well as political and social upheaval in the greater world, not really that important….and in fact trivial.

But guess what… both ego, and a second cup of coffee propelled me to respond…
Well, too late to exit now… so I'll just stick to what I said: I regret disappointing you, FTH but I don't think this so much about free speech as it is about criminal behavior in a changing Britain, where …particularly in urban settings.. such events are now not that much of an exception.

Now, what were you going to say about race cars?

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:31 pm

fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? Self appointed defender of freedom of speech don't see the point of bullies threatening a man with physical harm for passing out leaflets? Then you come here to scold me for expressing my own interest in it?

Very odd, and disappointing.


Sorry I forgot:
I am NOt a self appointed anything… and certainly not as defender of free speech.
I am simply the citizen of a country with a Constitution, that includes a First Amendment that guarantees just that: freedom of speech.
Do you consider yourself "self-appointed" when you defend the Second Amendment to that Constitution?
I never did.
I just thought you were a citizen exercising YOUR rights under that same Constitution and under the laws as they now exist.

But of course that IS another subject.


NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby kennyc » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:51 pm

fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? ....

Very odd, and disappointing.


Yes, she is, isn't she.

8-)
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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:51 pm

[quote}I assume that you agree that while in certain parts of the industrialized West, organized religion are losing in numbers, it is not always clear whether people are defecting to rationality over faith, or just giving up church to take up looking into crystal balls, or reading tea leaves… or whatever it is that makes them feel safer than they would be by just accepting the world as it is (or how "WE" see it).
And by the way, doesn't it seem significant to you that while among Christians and Jews membership in conventional congregations is dwindling, alternate, not always formalized observance is flourishing.
And of course, Islam is gaining thousands of new converts daily.
Doesn't that mean something?
Perhaps that there is something in surrendering to faith that we should try to more successfully understand so that we can make more effective forays against it?

NMB[/quote]
Oleg the Batty
Why do the masses need an opiate? Will any opiate do, or does the opiate need certain characteristics? Is there one reason or many; applying one to this type of personality and another to that?


Wait a minute here!! I don't know WHY the masses (or even posters in this Forum) need an opiate.
I don't even know why they would want one: I don't even take aspirin.
But the fact remains that humans do have a propensity for a comfort zone within which the world as it exists is possible for them to live in…
And that operators like psychics thrive either as an alternate to conventional religion or as an embellishment to it…
(Although it must be said that Christianity and Islam do not encourage peering into into the further on the grounds that if god wanted you to know who was going to win the third race at Belmont, he would have told you…
And the fact is that he prefers you to NOT know but to trust his wisdom on your behalf.

Can we agree that there is EVIDENCE that more people in the world, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, prefer to believe that the world is in the hands of a father figure of varying descriptions who is not only steering the ship but has their personal interests in the forefront of his mind?
Whether it is that they survive Ebola infection or that their favorite team wins a game?

Shamanism is the world's oldest profession; but I see little resemblance between shamanism and modern religions

Not to me.. although the Shaman was more interested in repeat, position in the community, and modern organized religions are universally interested in money as well as the power that numbers inevitably provide.
Psychics seem more like the modern version of a shaman. They provide similar services.

Of course… which only make them and their behaviors more trivial than anything resembling say… Scientology, or Hasidic Judaism, or the American Bpatist convention.
Back to my point: the Morgans are criminals, they are not the Vatican .
But the passion for psychics in modern life, is another subject altogether.

" I wonder how shamans dealt with naysayers 40,000 years ago.

I don't know… but it is not entirely unlikely that 40,000 years ago, any shaman worried about where his next meal was coming from, would have had his non-Shaman brother -in -law beat up any dissenter who seemed to be attracting a restless audience.
Human nature has not changed a bit in 40,000 years…. we are what we are and what we were: good, bad, indifferent, as well as powerful and powerless.

NMB
Last edited by nmblum88 on Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby kennyc » Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:52 pm

Gord wrote:Can't we worry about more than one thing going on in the world?

Here, Norma, sign a couple of petitions with me:

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron- ... hehghavami
https://www.change.org/p/stand-with-me- ... -education

Doing so won't detract from your crusade to do whatever else it is you feel you should be solely focused upon.


Imbibing....
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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:00 pm

nmblum wrote:
fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? Self appointed defender of freedom of speech don't see the point of bullies threatening a man with physical harm for passing out leaflets? Then you come here to scold me for expressing my own interest in it?

Very odd, and disappointing.


Sorry I forgot:
I am NOt a self appointed anything… and certainly not as defender of free speech.
I am simply the citizen of a country with a Constitution, that includes a First Amendment that guarantees just that: freedom of speech.
Do you consider yourself "self-appointed" when you defend the Second Amendment to that Constitution?
I never did.
I just thought you were a citizen exercising YOUR rights under that same Constitution and under the laws as they now exist.

But of course that IS another subject.


NMB



The First Amendment guarantees that our government won't regulate speech. The Brits don't have that Amendment, but they do have the understanding that they can pass out leaflets, as long as they're not libelous, on the streets. I'm sure I have that wrong in many ways, but I think that I have the nature of it correct.

Here in the US, if I were to hand out leaflets in front of a Morgan show, I'd wear an NRA baseball cap, or something. Probably wouldn't get approached.

On this forum, I suppose I am somewhat a self-appointed spokesperson on firearms, by default, as well as on the Second.

The reason I found this noteworthy is that Morgan can threaten to beat a guy up, call him homophobic pejoratives, threaten his life, and go so far to say that they know everything about him, as a threat, but still feel like they can sue him for libel, and call the police. The guy handing out educational material may be sued, which, even if he wins could cost a lot of money; for simply trying to educate people. A lawsuit is a tool to silence free speech, and the attempt to educate people on psychics and huxters, even when the case isn't at all solid.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:07 pm

kennyc wrote:
fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? ....

Very odd, and disappointing.


Yes, she is, isn't she.

8-)


Still trying for a date?
It's been years now… and apparently no luck.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:22 pm

fromthehills wrote:
nmblum wrote:
fromthehills wrote:You, dear Norma? Self appointed defender of freedom of speech don't see the point of bullies threatening a man with physical harm for passing out leaflets? Then you come here to scold me for expressing my own interest in it?

Very odd, and disappointing.


Sorry I forgot:
I am NOt a self appointed anything… and certainly not as defender of free speech.
I am simply the citizen of a country with a Constitution, that includes a First Amendment that guarantees just that: freedom of speech.
Do you consider yourself "self-appointed" when you defend the Second Amendment to that Constitution?
I never did.
I just thought you were a citizen exercising YOUR rights under that same Constitution and under the laws as they now exist.

But of course that IS another subject.


NMB



The First Amendment guarantees that our government won't regulate speech. The Brits don't have that Amendment, but they do have the understanding that they can pass out leaflets, as long as they're not libelous, on the streets. I'm sure I have that wrong in many ways, but I think that I have the nature of it correct.

Here in the US, if I were to hand out leaflets in front of a Morgan show, I'd wear an NRA baseball cap, or something. Probably wouldn't get approached.

On this forum, I suppose I am somewhat a self-appointed spokesperson on firearms, by default, as well as on the Second.

The reason I found this noteworthy is that Morgan can threaten to beat a guy up, call him homophobic pejoratives, threaten his life, and go so far to say that they know everything about him, as a threat, but still feel like they can sue him for libel, and call the police. The guy handing out educational material may be sued, which, even if he wins could cost a lot of money; for simply trying to educate people. A lawsuit is a tool to silence free speech, and the attempt to educate people on psychics and huxters, even when the case isn't at all solid.


I don't find a word of this arguable…
I was sure you had your reasons for choosing it as an issue, just as I have mine for finding it trivial …again.. in the light of Britain's now ever increasing problems or economics and social discontent, economics, racism….etc.,
(And of course our own… people who don't really make a lot of white noise at the idea of the police not only killing black men and women without sufficient provocation, don't usually get that exorcised about thuggery surrounding the dispensing of advertising, not matter how mindless.)
And I certainly don't know enough about British rules and regulations in regard to public distribution of political literature or even of advertising…
The British used to be so polite (within their incredible hypocrisy ) that all their dissenters obediently took their own soap boxes into prescribed areas like Hyde Park…
Now truth in advertising: I live in a neighborhood where there are more psychics behind the shrubbery and palm trees than I had heretofore seen in my entire life, including among the Romany of Albania….
And the truth is that until I read your high dudgeon start of this thread, I had never given them a thought other than that they are almost ALL women (why aren't more men in the psychic game?) and that the costumes and the makeup are more imitative of Hollywood scriptwriting than they are of real life.
In other words, I thought them more ridiculous than dangerous…

NMB .
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:32 pm

Gord wrote:Can't we worry about more than one thing going on in the world?

Here, Norma, sign a couple of petitions with me:

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron- ... hehghavami
https://www.change.org/p/stand-with-me- ... -education

Doing so won't detract from your crusade to do whatever else it is you feel you should be solely focused upon.



WOuld you feel slighted if I pass on this?
I don't sign petitions, and certainly not on the internet.
And I have no idea what you are talking about, although that is nothing new…
I nerve have understood what you are tailing about other than that you are offended when "no one" is spelled as one word.
Which I strive nightly to avoid doing.
Other than that, while other where seem to enjoy it, my threshold for catering to infantilism is nonexistent.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Oct 11, 2014 5:07 pm

nmblum wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Why do the masses need an opiate? Will any opiate do, or does the opiate need certain characteristics? Is there one reason or many; applying one to this type of personality and another to that?


Wait a minute here!! I don't know WHY the masses (or even posters in this Forum) need an opiate.
I don't even know why they would want one: I don't even take aspirin.

I wasn't asking you, I meant the questions to be rhetorical. I don't know the why's either. Marx thought that if one removed the opiate, the need would be gone. He was wrong about that.
But the fact remains that humans do have a propensity for a comfort zone within which the world as it exists is possible for them to live in…
And that operators like psychics thrive either as an alternate to conventional religion or as an embellishment to it…

This is where I am disagreeing with you. Shamans and psychics are a whole different kettle of fish to religion. Religions are political, shamans and psychics are not. Religious heirarchies seek to amass political power and institutional wealth; psychics and shamans seek personal wealth. They rarely form political parties, and don't play the game of thrones with any passion when they do. Apples and oranges.

There is some evidence to support that difference-in-kind. The most deeply religious are as skeptical of the paranormal and of psychics as skeptics. The people who profess belief in both paranormal and gods tend to be the softly religious - that is, express a belief in gods but are not regular church goers or members of congregations.

And the fact is that he prefers you to NOT know but to trust his wisdom on your behalf.

Exactly. The opposite of what shamans and psychics do.

Can we agree that there is EVIDENCE that more people in the world, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, prefer to believe that the world is in the hands of a father figure of varying descriptions who is not only steering the ship but has their personal interests in the forefront of his mind?
Whether it is that they survive Ebola infection or that their favorite team wins a game?
Yes. Their absolute numbers are unknown, but the growth of secularism and atheism show that they are not universal.

Of course… which only make them and their behaviors more trivial than anything resembling say… Scientology, or Hasidic Judaism, or the American Bpatist convention.
Back to my point: the Morgans are criminals, they are not the Vatican .
But the passion for psychics in modern life, is another subject altogether.

This is mostly Much Ado About Nothing. Most peolple who pay to see a stage magician or psychic go to be entertained, I doubt that a majority actually believe that they will see actual magic or actual speaking-with-the-dead. Then, a leaflet passer who gets greeted with a bunch of bluster. Cynical me thinks that the Morgans wish they'd hired the guy long ago, because of all the free publicity.

Oleg wrote: I wonder how shamans dealt with naysayers 40,000 years ago.

I don't know… but it is not entirely unlikely that 40,000 years ago, any shaman worried about where his next meal was coming from, would have had his non-Shaman brother -in -law beat up any dissenter who seemed to be attracting a restless audience.
Human nature has not changed a bit in 40,000 years…. we are what we are and what we were: good, bad, indifferent, as well as powerful and powerless.

NMB

My expectation is that any shaman worthy of the name would put a curse on the dissenter, and let confirmation bias and public opinion do the rest. Much like the modern witch hunts in Nigeria etc.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby SweetPea » Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:54 pm

We have opiate receptors. Hungry hungry little receptors.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby octopus1 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:14 pm

Image

I'll get my knuckle dusters.

Oh! You mean her husband... Oh... Yes... (*Grabs shoutgun you didn't expect me to have*) Ok, ready! Lemme at 'im!
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:32 pm

octopus1 wrote:Image

I'll get my knuckle dusters.

Oh! You mean her husband... Oh... Yes... (*Grabs shoutgun you didn't expect me to have*) Ok, ready! Lemme at 'im!

Have a shoutgun? I pictured you as a shoutgun - where appropriate. :-P
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby octopus1 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:36 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
octopus1 wrote:Image

I'll get my knuckle dusters.

Oh! You mean her husband... Oh... Yes... (*Grabs shoutgun you didn't expect me to have*) Ok, ready! Lemme at 'im!

Have a shoutgun? I pictured you as a shoutgun - where appropriate. :-P


I doubt that it works. But we won't tell anyone about that :lol: (The shotgun, not anything else!)
"On the fence".... Without a cushion....

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Oct 11, 2014 9:49 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
nmblum wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:Why do the masses need an opiate? Will any opiate do, or does the opiate need certain characteristics? Is there one reason or many; applying one to this type of personality and another to that?


Wait a minute here!! I don't know WHY the masses (or even posters in this Forum) need an opiate.
I don't even know why they would want one: I don't even take aspirin.

I wasn't asking you, I meant the questions to be rhetorical. I don't know the why's either. Marx thought that if one removed the opiate, the need would be gone. He was wrong about that.
But the fact remains that humans do have a propensity for a comfort zone within which the world as it exists is possible for them to live in…
And that operators like psychics thrive either as an alternate to conventional religion or as an embellishment to it…

This is where I am disagreeing with you. Shamans and psychics are a whole different kettle of fish to religion. Religions are political, shamans and psychics are not. Religious heirarchies seek to amass political power and institutional wealth; psychics and shamans seek personal wealth. They rarely form political parties, and don't play the game of thrones with any passion when they do. Apples and oranges.

There is some evidence to support that difference-in-kind. The most deeply religious are as skeptical of the paranormal and of psychics as skeptics. The people who profess belief in both paranormal and gods tend to be the softly religious - that is, express a belief in gods but are not regular church goers or members of congregations.

And the fact is that he prefers you to NOT know but to trust his wisdom on your behalf.

Exactly. The opposite of what shamans and psychics do.

Can we agree that there is EVIDENCE that more people in the world, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary, prefer to believe that the world is in the hands of a father figure of varying descriptions who is not only steering the ship but has their personal interests in the forefront of his mind?
Whether it is that they survive Ebola infection or that their favorite team wins a game?
Yes. Their absolute numbers are unknown, but the growth of secularism and atheism show that they are not universal.

Of course… which only make them and their behaviors more trivial than anything resembling say… Scientology, or Hasidic Judaism, or the American Bpatist convention.
Back to my point: the Morgans are criminals, they are not the Vatican .
But the passion for psychics in modern life, is another subject altogether.

This is mostly Much Ado About Nothing. Most peolple who pay to see a stage magician or psychic go to be entertained, I doubt that a majority actually believe that they will see actual magic or actual speaking-with-the-dead. Then, a leaflet passer who gets greeted with a bunch of bluster. Cynical me thinks that the Morgans wish they'd hired the guy long ago, because of all the free publicity.

Oleg wrote: I wonder how shamans dealt with naysayers 40,000 years ago.

I don't know… but it is not entirely unlikely that 40,000 years ago, any shaman worried about where his next meal was coming from, would have had his non-Shaman brother -in -law beat up any dissenter who seemed to be attracting a restless audience.
Human nature has not changed a bit in 40,000 years…. we are what we are and what we were: good, bad, indifferent, as well as powerful and powerless.

NMB

My expectation is that any shaman worthy of the name would put a curse on the dissenter, and let confirmation bias and public opinion do the rest. Much like the modern witch hunts in Nigeria etc.


I agree with much of your response, and particularly on your observation that this whole thing (a tempest of no great importance .. although here is is now the subject of two threads) could easily be a manipulative ploy by the Morgans.. or whoever manages their psychic shenanigans: it is in a manner of speaking, "a Gulf of Tonkin" Morgan event, turning them into a media flurry that makes their name at least known to the multitudes.

But on one point I demur: and it is sadly the most important at least to me.
You, perhaps in a flurry of optimism, or it could be a long standing conviction, seem to believe that secularism and atheism have made great strides toward ..if not eliminating, at least challenging the dominion of faith over reason.
My personal experience as well as detached observation force me to doubt that this is so…
In the West, certainly formal and consistent attendance at religious services is down…
and perhaps even the tithing which would certainly raise the ire of religious hierarchies.
And of course Catholic women, at least have cast aside the dogmatism of their Church on the subject of family planning.
But for every such waning of religious observance there are the Hasidic and ultra-Orthodox Jews who are increasingly rabid, as well as the enormous success of the "quasi religions" Scientology being the most notable, but not the only one…

In Russia and the Ukraine, after 70 years of successful elimination of a backward and and oligarchy connected Orthodoxy, the repellent Church and its clergy are everywhere manifest and the pews are filled including, surprisingly with young people.
I do think that there is less lip service paid, in the West at least, especially in our literature and our arts. to the cliches of faith, and the existence of an omnipotent god…
But I wouldn't take the relaxation of language… {!#%@} repeated 1,000 times a day on radio and television,, in film, in song and story.. as a sign…
Or a certain kind of hedonism in behavior… that belies an underlying terror or death and eventual retribution..
No matter these signs, an inherent Puritanism still pervades our social behavior.
There is a great and really inexplicable hypocrisy that often accompanies the sloughing off of religion and its stricture, but FAITH, that is reliance on the idea of things unseen, the ephemeral, something other that the purely temporal in human life and by extension in the universe…. seeps to prevail..
And with every sign of emancipation from ancient fears and primitive bromides there is the concomitant sign of another quirky manifestation of faith popping up….
One notable example being the explosion of interest in Kabballah (among people, Jews to the manner born, and non-Jews alike who should know better) a resurrected mysticism long discarded, a revised and reissued mish mash of mysticism…
As well as the many new "demoniantions" that have recently sprung up to accommodate those strange souls who often sit next to you at dinner parties and tell you the they are not religious, "but are very spiritual…"
Not.. at least to me.. a good sign…
As a second generation, living in the Muslim culture of his family, atheist friend in Israel recently wrote to me, "you have to admit that the lack of constancy in the discarding of Christian dogma is not a great advertisement for those struggling to emancipate themselves from the mind set and demands of prevalent Islam. When we look around we see that emancipation has not created even a marginally better human being, or even a less troubled one. So one might as well stay within the same confines as one's parents."
And of course I did have to admit it.

NMB
P.S.. And speaking of the unreliability of atheist role models, have you read the latest from Sam Harris (well known to those given to slogans, as " one of the Four Horsemen," of contemporary atheism") Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion?
Oy.
Because in addition to the spirituality BS, is is also in the end a kind of diatribe against Islam that makes it, by default as well as some deliberation, a defense of Christianity with Judaism thrown in as an acceptable afterthought.
I,speaking of course ONLY for myself, did not sign on to total non-belief only to have to choose between the evils of Islam and the comparable moral beauty of Christendom..
Or Judaism…
And as I don't have a clue as to the meaning of the spiritual other than that I don't believe a word connected with it, I can only be content that I never thought of Harris as my leader in the first place.
However for people who did, his book has been as much a shock as finding out that virgins don't usually have babies, and still get to be called virgins.
If you've read it,w hat do you think?
And if you haven't. perhaps you might give it a try……
And report back.
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby clarsct » Sun Oct 12, 2014 2:51 am

The first person to raise a fist was the first person that ran out of ideas.
When Religion becomes State, and breaking the Law becomes a Sin, then Dissenters will become Heretics.

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby fromthehills » Sun Oct 12, 2014 1:24 pm

clarsct wrote:The first person to raise a fist was the first person that ran out of ideas.



That is how it works, isn't it

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:40 pm

nmblum wrote:
Gord wrote:Can't we worry about more than one thing going on in the world?

Here, Norma, sign a couple of petitions with me:

https://www.change.org/p/david-cameron- ... hehghavami
https://www.change.org/p/stand-with-me- ... -education

Doing so won't detract from your crusade to do whatever else it is you feel you should be solely focused upon.

WOuld you feel slighted if I pass on this?

Yes. :P The world is broken and you're not fixing it!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Sally Morgan's Thugs

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:27 pm

nmblum wrote: In Russia and the Ukraine, after 70 years of successful elimination of a backward and and oligarchy connected Orthodoxy, the repellent Church and its clergy are everywhere manifest and the pews are filled including, surprisingly with young people.
Russian Orthodox churches don't have pews. You stand. Otherwise how can you get out of the way when the priest starts singing and flicking the holy water at everyone?
Orthodox.JPG



The post communist leap into religious behaviour was mostly into non-Orthodox cults. The increase in orthodox "self characterisation" was due to a change in the census method.
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