Magnetic Water Scam

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Pop Haydn
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Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:29 am


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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby octopus1 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:27 pm

Pop Haydn wrote:http://youtu.be/8JRXt3QSh0c

http://youtu.be/6Y2cYMBM3e0


Welcome, Pop Haydn.

For me at least, the first video was "fun", and the second was "satisfying" :-D
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Gord » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:15 pm

Haha, awesome! :mrgreen:
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:16 pm

Well, I don't think any of the other magnetic waters on the market can match ours Gauss for Gauss. Most of them, you can't even measure their magnetic energy. A lot of them are even diamagnetic.

Ours is so strong, we have problems with shipping. Ever since that postal truck stuck to the side of the Disney Concert Hall, we have been in negotiations with the USPS.

And improper shipping and handling can also cause problems:

http://youtu.be/EUihClfzzME

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:41 pm

It can't beat MagneGas though. :P

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Gord » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:40 am

Kaepora Gaebora wrote:It can't beat MagneGas though. :P

Only 'cause it keeps dodging!
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:15 pm

Very convincing. Altho' I do have a few observations.

In the first video with the canvass and the ring magnet, the coating is hydrophobic, so the water will naturally globulate due to surface tension. I used to have a toy like that. It was a maze, and you'd put a drop of water in it and roll it around like mercury.

The video was cut, so I suspect you spent a good deal of time painstakingly building the water ring with the eyedropper. The texture of the canvass is probably enough to hold the droplets in place.

Then the magnet on a string drawing the water away - but note - not until the magnet touched the water and broke the surface tension. Then the water stuck to the magnet due to polar interaction, pretty much why it sticks to just about everything. You could increase the stickyness with a hydrophilic coating, but you probably don't need to.

Now, the second video lifting the tall shot glass with a card. Well, that's an old physics trick. But you've got me with the magnetic spin. I did notice some "opportunities" for some sleight of hand. I'd really like to know how you did that, but I guess you're not about to give it away. :wgrin:

I am suitably impressed, and hope you use your powers for the good of all!

The really interesting thing is that water actually can be affected by strong magnetic fields due to the slight polarity of its bonds. Given a strong enough magnetic field, you can "levitate" a glob of water, and even small animals (Google levitating frogs). The fact of the matter, tho', is as soon as you switch the field off, it just goes sploosh. It doesn't retain any kind of memory of its previous state.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:43 pm

Spoiler:
If the cardboard is reasonably soft, it would be simpler to press the donut magnet or even a lowly washer firmly into the surface. That would form a slight depression in the form of a ring.

In the bottle: water.

In the eyedropper after the video cut: glycerin, or water mixed with enough glycerin to increase the adhesion.

Carefully add drops to the ring. The glycerin will just naturally cling to the smaller magnet, no magnetism required.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:35 pm

The ring depression is a possibility, I did notice a bit of a ring-shape at the bottom of the glob. That was my first thought. But with a steady hand, you could make a ring of water on a roughish hydrophobic surface.

It would be easier to paint a circle with some very dilute dish detergent, and pop your swinging magnet in it. And let it dry.

The dude is teaching a lesson. Several, actually. Physics, chemistry, and how easy it is to scam people. I don't think he's actually trying to sell his magnetic water. It's just a demonstration.

Sure, he's trying to sell himself. He's a magician.

Shermer, Penn, Teller, Randi. Do those names ring any bells?

I hope he comes clean. I really want to know how he makes the magnet attract to the glass of water!
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:43 pm

The magnet, card, and glass trick is simple once you figure it out.

No, I am not telling how I think it works. Pop is a certifiable genius.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Dec 24, 2013 5:06 pm

Phfft! A likely excuse!

Just admit you don't know. Unless you do. In which case PM me. Unless you want to answer to a civil court case where you have to answer how a poster on your forum had a simultaneous heart attack and brain aneurysm from thinking too hard.

Anyway, I reckon all magicians should go to prison. They obviously learnt all their tricks as shoplifters.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Dec 24, 2013 6:26 pm

Ha! There's a strong magnet under the table, that's why he lifts the glass out of the field to demonstrate the non-magnetivityness!

I'm still working on how he gets the stringy magnet to stick to the card.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Tue Dec 24, 2013 7:18 pm

Oh, yeah. I can see the fields of force now, vectors, and stuff. The stringy magnet is pointing under the table.

Perhaps an electromagnet. Or something you can scavenge from a concert-sized speaker.

An electromagnet would be pretty cool, since you can switch them on and off at will, tho' they do tend to give themselves away with a characteristic hum.

The way the stringy magnet snaps to the card, there's definitely another magnet on the other side.

The card was out of shot, then a similar card came back. Slightly bent. Quick reveal, not long enough to see the tiny, black-painted neodymium magnet glued to the spade.

Or was somehow attached by sleight of hand with all the hand wiggling. I'll not discredit that skill. And then tearing it up, and pocketing the evidence.

There are two kinds of magnets. Big ones with wide, weak fields. And small ones with close, strong fields.

I'm not an expert, but I think I might be onto you.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:02 am

You are all very clever, and have most of it right. :)

I put a ring of adhesive tape on the painter's board and then sprayed it with SuperHydroPhobic paint. The magnets are just throw-offs.

This is for entertainment and for self-promotion, but it does point out how easily people can be taken in by pseudo-scientific claptrap.

Because it "sounds" familiar, and "right" the way most people remember their vague scientific knowledge, the conman can make all kinds of empirical and logical shortcuts that bring the listener into error. I am hoping that my audience will associate my obviously conman character with the sophistic lines commonly used to deceive, like "many studies indicate..." "It has been reported..." "Nothing stronger..." "Some scientists believe..."

I sell medicine, too.... :)

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:10 am

Ha, I thought maybe you had waxed it. :lol:
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Dec 25, 2013 1:34 am

I hope you stick.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:45 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Ha! There's a strong magnet under the table, that's why he lifts the glass out of the field to demonstrate the non-magnetivityness!

Can't be a magnet under the table, because he wouldn't have been able to lift the glass once the magnetic water was in it.
I'm still working on how he gets the stringy magnet to stick to the card.

Sleight of hand. He wipes some magnetic water onto the card with his fingers.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby octopus1 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:17 am

I was completely skippin' down a different path! :oops:

Pressure differences I was thinking. Filling the glass to maximum level, environmental differences. Such and such :lol:

You both "had" and "lost" me at magic!
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Gord » Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:20 am

octopus1 wrote:I was completely skippin' down a different path! :oops:

What, you thought he was a robot, too?? :shock:
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby octopus1 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 7:13 pm

Gord wrote:
octopus1 wrote:I was completely skippin' down a different path! :oops:

What, you thought he was a robot, too?? :shock:


:lol:

Are bots now so advanced that they can post videos of themselves as avuncular, soft-spoken types? :P

Whoo! My IT knowledge must be bad. I can cause irrevocable failure by messing around in the system registry - But that's about it!
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:36 am

Pop Haydn wrote:You are all very clever, and have most of it right. :)


Thank you. That was very enjoyable. I love close up magic. Good luck with your ongoing work.

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:14 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Ha, I thought maybe you had waxed it. :lol:

You can do the same with a spray can of Scotch Guard, the stuff you use to protect your furniture from spills. That's how they make Magic Sand, it's just regular sand coated with the same chemical.

Here's a project for Fromthehills if he ever gets bored: You could make a maze out of plywood, or MDF, give it a coat of paint to pretty it up, and give it a liberal coating of Scotch Guard. I bet the hippies would go nuts for locally crafted wood toys.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:59 am

Yeah, I guess my brain went automatically to something it's more familiar with. Scotchgard or NeverWet haven't gotten first in line yet.

But thanks for the reminder. :-D
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:22 am

The magnets are powerful throw offs...

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Sun Jan 05, 2014 9:39 pm

What a shame the University of Pennsylvania would take such a stand, ignoring mountains of anecdotal evidence:

http://resources.cas.psu.edu/WaterResou ... gnetic.pdf

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:00 pm

They have it all wrong. In theory, since I have copper pipes in the house, I should be able to run magnetized water through them and, assuming I do it correctly, I should be able to power the house with the resulting electrical current.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:26 pm

Pyrrho wrote:They have it all wrong. In theory, since I have copper pipes in the house, I should be able to run magnetized water through them and, assuming I do it correctly, I should be able to power the house with the resulting electrical current.

How many of these would you need?
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Mon Jan 06, 2014 12:44 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:They have it all wrong. In theory, since I have copper pipes in the house, I should be able to run magnetized water through them and, assuming I do it correctly, I should be able to power the house with the resulting electrical current.

How many of these would you need?

http://www.elo.biz/
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Mon Jan 06, 2014 1:20 am

I think the pipe would have to be coiled for that to work properly. Or you could use Vortexed/Magnetized water to get the same result...

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:06 am

Iron pipes with insulated copper wire coiled around. But you'd only get a current if you left the tap running.

I used to watch a supposedly reputable science magazine show on the (Australian) ABC that touted wonderful and visionary inventions and science breakthroughs. They once showcased Whisson's Windmill, which I promptly destroyed. Probably the most notable achievement I'll ever obtain in my career as a skeptic.

But they also had a farmer selling large clamp-on magnets for irrigation systems. All the usual BS. It makes the water wetter, penetrates the soil better, dissolves more nutrients, easier for roots to absorb, and plant cells to incorporate...

His evidence was two plots of plants, one supposedly watered with magnetic water, and the other not. The Not Plot were half as big.

But sheesh! He could have planted them later, used less fertiliser, or watered them less. We only had his word to go by. It wasn't a regulated test monitored by an independent party.

That's when I stopped watching.
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Gord » Mon Jan 06, 2014 5:09 am

Pop Haydn wrote:I think the pipe would have to be coiled for that to work properly. Or you could use Vortexed/Magnetized water to get the same result...

"If you coil it, they will come."
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby kmarinas86 » Tue Jan 07, 2014 8:42 pm

Anyone here familiar with cyclotron resonance?

"Cyclotron resonance describes the interaction of external forces with charged particles experiencing a magnetic field, thus already moving on a circular path."

Requirements are simply:
* Charges
* Magnetic field
* Relative motion

With or without a technological "cyclotron" the physical laws for "cyclotron resonance" are the same.

Water (H2O) does not have discernible net charge, but it is a polar molecule. If it tumbles around, it's easy to see how this would work in a plane existing at right angles to the magnetic field. The magnetic component of the Lorentz force is after all one that acts at right angles to both the magnetic field and the velocity of the particle, and the result is a gyration with the magnetic field direction serving as the axis of gyration.

If H2O were to tumble around with a slightly higher statistical probability in one plane compared to others, then it would make the water pressure slightly dependent on direction (anisotropic), which could explain the increased so-called "wetness" (actually reduced surface tension) as well claims to higher rate of absorption. A simple experiment using a cup and a large sponge wrapped inside with water in the center can easily demonstrate what happens to the rate of absorption when you increase the pressure by simply gyrating the water by shaking the cup.

Since angular momentum must be conserved, then even after the magnetic field is removed, one could still be left with a rotational, rather than irrotational fluid. Since the equilibrium state of a fluid is irrotational (no local spin), the rotational aspect of the fluid will diminish over time, eliminating these qualities. However, depending on how much energy was added, these effects can last much longer than the mean lifetime of hydrogen bonds.

If this sounds unfamiliar to you, that is because this explanation requires basic understanding of fluid dynamics and electromagnetism, neither of which are typical prerequisites for basic chemistry courses.

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Gord » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:15 am

kmarinas86 wrote:Anyone here familiar with cyclotron resonance?

Yes. As with most things in physics, it's one of those terms that gets misused by people who think they know more than they actually do. Same thing with "quantum" anything and "stellar distances".
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby fromthehills » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:43 am

Major Malfunction wrote:They once showcased Whisson's Windmill, which I promptly destroyed. .



I wanna see that footage.

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:52 pm


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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:30 pm

Irrefutable evidence!
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Thu Jan 16, 2014 6:31 pm

:)

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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:34 pm


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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pyrrho » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:26 pm

He must be sitting too close to the monitor!

I've been wondering...maybe I could put out a bowl of magnetized water, let the house mice drink that, and collect them with an electromagnet?
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Re: Magnetic Water Scam

Postby Pop Haydn » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:18 pm

The science seems right...Great idea! May I use it in my promotion? :D
Last edited by Pop Haydn on Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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