Life After God

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Lausten
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Life After God

Postby Lausten » Mon Jan 11, 2016 3:52 pm

This guy is amazing.
Obviously he fits my worldview, you might not like him. Unfortunately, Ryan Bell is not the best interviewer, so this a bit of "two guys chatting in a living room", but around the middle of it there are some amazing discussions. Bart is the son of a famous liberal Evangelical theologian, Tony Campolo. Bart slowly realized religion was wrong, but it was the narrative that was wrong. What he liked about religion was that it was people working toward peace and justice. It was people nurturing each other so that they could do that work in the world. He is now the Humanist Chaplain at USC, a volunteer position. He has some interesting things to say about that too.
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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 12, 2016 2:37 pm

Lausten wrote:What he liked about religion was that it was people working toward peace and justice. It was people nurturing each other so that they could do that work in the world.

Great!........except thats not religion. THAT is just what it says: working towards peace and justice. NOT religion at all.

...........its is all definitional, but some approaches are way more productive than others.

Dictionary!
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Lausten
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Re: Life After God

Postby Lausten » Tue Jan 12, 2016 3:46 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Lausten wrote:What he liked about religion was that it was people working toward peace and justice. It was people nurturing each other so that they could do that work in the world.

Great!........except thats not religion. THAT is just what it says: working towards peace and justice. NOT religion at all.

...........its is all definitional, but some approaches are way more productive than others.

Dictionary!

Not really arguing that point. He also talks about using the term "supernaturalist" to define anyone who believes any supernatural aspect of their chosen religion or pagan ritual or that wearing their lucky shirt made Blair Walsh miss that field goal. (Bart didn't say that last one). Of course, his Christian friends hate that term since they see every other religion as supernaturalism, but not their own.
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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 12, 2016 4:46 pm

You aren't arguing that point, just making it the summation of the videos import.

Check.
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Re: Life After God

Postby Lausten » Tue Jan 12, 2016 5:54 pm

Whatever Bobbo
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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 12, 2016 7:30 pm

Its not whatever Lausten. Its what you wrote. As if religion were the source of morality or the source for good charitable works and non-religious have no interest in such things. THAT is what you say //// checking I see that is what you say he said.

So......................... regardless of who's world view is congruent.... never mind.
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Re: Life After God

Postby Lausten » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:39 pm

Not sure what you "checked", but that's not what he said. What he said was, that's where he was getting it. His spiritual community was doing those things and he slowly realized that it was the people there who were bringing that to the community, the narrative was not providing it. When they are talking about that, Ryan (the interviewer) asks if there is a name for that phenomenon. I've asked a couple psychologists and I haven't found a name for it yet, but there should be. It's like some kids who think their father is the smartest man ever, then they grow up and find out other people know those things too. Except with religion, a lot of people never grow out of it.
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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Jan 12, 2016 8:57 pm

Is the phenomenon: "being uneducated"?
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Re: Life After God

Postby Lausten » Tue Jan 12, 2016 9:27 pm

I suppose it could be, perhaps, "unworldly" would be a bit more generous. "uneducated" is a subjective term. It doesn't need to mean "no education at all", and how would define "no education" anyway? Someone raised in the jungle? Even they observed animals surviving and learned something. I read some Sam Harris today, he marveled at Ben Carson's ability to learn brain surgery, spend a lifetime around scientists, and still maintain that God is the master of the universe and will appear some day.
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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:22 am

I agree men like Ben Carson are somewhat of an enigma. We can't call them stupid or uneducated or inexperience or unexposed. So....easy enough though to recognize how correct St Augustine was: "Give me the child, and he is mine for ever" ==or whatever he said.

I often say: when intelligent people think or do stupid things: Its emotions. And then applying the bobbo Rule, I look for such emotional dead spots in my own outlook/conclusions/philosophies. I recognize a few and try to keep some tension in mind as I think further on those issues.

Always a joy.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
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Re: Life After God

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:53 am

Douglas Adams was more right than he knew when he said :
“If life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion.”

If you are honest enough to accept that there are 100's of billions of galaxies, each with 100's of billions of stars, then you either must be able to bury that thought deep or find something to cling to other than science.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:13 am

EM-why? Life, intelligent, ADVANCED in some other star system is about as relevant as that Chinese Family choking on smog 12000 miles away. aka: no direct impact on me. Why propose some monumental import when there is none?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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Re: Life After God

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:34 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:EM-why? Life, intelligent, ADVANCED in some other star system is about as relevant as that Chinese Family choking on smog 12000 miles away. aka: no direct impact on me. Why propose some monumental import when there is none?



What i mean is: why bother? It will all be over in a mere 20 trillion years or so - no point in long-term planing ;)
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Re: Life After God

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:08 pm

OH.........well...........thats an entirely different point than the clearly announced other point you initially made.

Do you need time for a tie breaker?
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

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ElectricMonk
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Re: Life After God

Postby ElectricMonk » Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:10 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:OH.........well...........thats an entirely different point than the clearly announced other point you initially made.

Do you need time for a tie breaker?


well, if I thought that the best physics can offer me if eventual non-existence, making Pascal's wager doesn't seem entirely dumb.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

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Lausten
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Re: Life After God

Postby Lausten » Wed Jan 13, 2016 5:55 pm

Before going too far down the Bobbo rabbit hole, I would like to add that all that enormity can be looked at two ways. 1, that we just got here on the cosmic scale, 2, that if we as a species last more than another 200,000, it's a pretty good run. The "class" of mammal will probably go on longer, but species just don't last that long.
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