Trying on Letting Go

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scrmbldggs
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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:13 pm

digress wrote:Fear not because this understanding has been designed with you in mind!


I think that should read "Fear not because this understanding has been designed with you in your mind!".
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:22 pm

Lausten wrote:
digress wrote:Every personal testimony, every account of a miracle, every claim for divinity, every thing you've read on the subject and all your years of hard work and growing toward a well deserved understanding were just to demonstrate the depth to your own ignorance. In order to see how far the floor could go.

This is what people say when they don't want you to move on. It is a completely meaningless statement with nothing behind it. It says you don't know what you think you know. The only only correct response is, "so what". It's a tautology, you only know what you know. It has no brilliant insight. It's value is only for the person saying it, not the one hearing it.

It implies that the person saying it is further along on some journey than you are, that they have reached some deeper place where they are more aware of their own ignorance and that somehow translates into them being more wise. The only thing people like this know is how to find people who will listen to them and believe they have something worth saying.


I was specifically asked for personal advice on how to avoid "god crap". It was addressed to a-number's request. It evidently was not worth saying. Thank you
Last edited by digress on Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:24 pm

A-number wrote:
digress wrote: A-number,

I don't know of a more interesting topic than God and so it would be immoral to suggest you stay away from its crap.

Immoral? That is as ridiculous and absurd as it is untrue. Especially coming from someone like you.

You can't ever really get away from it. Once it's there it becomes a part of you whether you take to it or not.

You must be joking. To most of the ones that claim they really believe in him, he is IRRELEVANT at best. We don't even talk about the ones that don't or that are standing on the fence or that are a full fledged atheists. Or worse, the ones that believe but still grew up in semi secular society.


So, in a way it's true when said God is omnipresent or all powerful or around every corner, but because God exists as a question nobody could ever say, what God is, or what God does, or what God wants of you, or how God thinks. This is all you will ever need to know to aid your resolve when confronting the hysterical mind-numbing realization of how wrong every attempt at scripture is, every attempt at revelation is, every single thing you've ever been told or have come across, or said, whether myth or emotional crutch - is. Every personal testimony, every account of a miracle, every claim for divinity, every thing you've read on the subject and all your years of hard work and growing toward a well deserved understanding were just to demonstrate the depth to your own ignorance. In order to see how far the floor could go.


Can anyone be as depressing as you are being here? And beside Socrates said "the only true wisdom is, in knowing you know nothing.". And he spoke for Humanity and not just for me. Not that humanity does not know or that I don't. We both do, but in doing so, we should realize that knowledge is infinite and there is more of it to be acquired. And just like Lausten said (I am ignorant) "so what?". I never claimed I am superior than anyone just because I know Jesus. Although I have my stupid moments, I never stretched or spread them that far.

Now, without sounding too Christian I want to say you should be so lucky! Fear not because this understanding has been designed with you in mind! Just understand that you've been cheating yourself. That language is, in and of itself, a lost opportunity. So that you may freely embrace your will by willingly confronting the question without answer. What is god?
You are not doing as good job as I thought you would. And I honestly think you are cheating me. I know you're brilliant and that you could share with me some of that to help get myself out of here.

As far as "what is God?" goes, the bible answered that for me in Colossians 1:16,17 (among other verses, so it's not all bs).

The meaning is in the practice. The wisdom is in the distance. The struggle in the will. The beauty in the freedom. The truth in its embrace. And I may be the anti christ.
ps. plot twist

Practice, distance, will, freedom and embrace are all relative. So where does that leave us? Except that you are not the antichrist. Even Christ at one point was accused of being the antichrist by his own people.


A fair response. Thank you for this valuable lesson.
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:26 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
digress wrote:Fear not because this understanding has been designed with you in mind!


I think that should read "Fear not because this understanding has been designed with you in your mind!".


Well, the bold in was designed with this understanding in mind. Cheers
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:08 am

A-number wrote:
digress wrote:I was specifically asked for personal advice on how to avoid "god crap". It was addressed to a-number's request. It evidently was not worth saying. Thank you


You told me that Ryan Bell's link "stole your innocence". I really would like you to elaborate on that as I plan to read his blogs from start to finish. Thank you so much.


Would you blush if I told you the elaboration rests within the interpretation?
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:13 pm

Deleted due to I misunderstood the original request.
Last edited by HghrSymmetry on Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:15 pm

A-number wrote:There is a French expression that goes like this: "parler pour ne rien dire", which translates to "to talk, yet convey nothing.".

You could have said:"I really don't give rat's ass about you getting a foot in the right the direction, so the answer is no." And that would have been the right answer for me. Life in essense can be that simple. Or better, simply not reply. I had a nice day today. Like many in the past and as I expect to have more in the future.


Your foot is in the direction of its own expectations. You fail to rise to the occasion. I was going to answer your stealing of innocence after I felt a bit of reassurance you were not being completely parasitic with demands and requests by answering my question in fair return. You apparently lack the extrospection to realize I am not your dog. So, {!#%@} you and No.
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:42 pm

A-number wrote:
digress wrote:You fail to rise to the occasion.


NO I did not. I asked a very simple question that needed very simple answer, instead you gave me an empty meanless lecture.


You said that I should have said
"I really don't give rat's ass about you getting a foot in the right the direction, so the answer is no."


I told you in at the start that I find the topic of God or "god crap" to be the most interesting. I can't then give you advice to stay away from it without reflecting something I did not represent. Making the attempt immoral.

Every time you ask the question or postulate the word god your confrontation with meaning is unavoidable. So without forgetting what you've started the topic becomes unavoidable; ever lingering.

What Socrates said was that he was wisest of all men and that no man wiser than he. The people he told this to held him guilty to a lie. The claim to know Jesus is, in and of itself, a claim of superiority because it says you know a man you could not know. Similar to how despite our direct conversations you'd not make any claim you knew digress. Yet, Jesus is the special case. The superior exempt.

And similar posters like Yrreg have defended your view; God is a creator and operator of the universe and everything with a beginning whereby;

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
" Colossians 1:16/17

But my anti christ remark was for the sake of comic relief as I thought it reasonable or predictable to suggest your depression would later become as evident as it was or would be. At the very least I thought I'd beat you to the punch and call myself the anti christ because I, in no way, thought my advice would reach you.

Though I tried, and here, still do, despite being called a liar, a cheat, ridiculous and depressing in direct response to your requesting my advice. Now, I really wanted to answer your question about my loss of innocence but I feared being rude and glorifying yourself within your own exceptional day was far more important.

For this I am sorry. Carry on as you were, smothered in gods crap, while the day exceptionally ensues.
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:25 am

Post deleted. Seems it was misunderstood.

I suppose I failed to be helpful.
Last edited by HghrSymmetry on Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:01 am

That letter has been unknown until just recently (I think it was discovered around 2008).
It was a private correspondence to philosopher Gutkind in 1954.

I wouldn't call Einstein or Spinoza gods. More like humans that have contributed to our understanding of the universe (or unique ways of perceiving it).

It serves to only answer Einstein's view on a personal deity despite the fact that some non theists may use it as a club (that was not my intention).
As for "strategy" I personally don't have any, I simply thought is was thought provoking.

Most every culture around the planet has developed some type of theism. IMO there was a selection pressure operating in our early hominid ancestors for believing in a certain way because it increased genetic fitness (more successful offspring that survived to pass on their genes).
Now reinforce this with organized religion and you have a powerful one-two punch to foster this type of thinking.
So we have a selection pressure to be intelligent and use reason, but to also suspend reason in specific areas if it provided a benefit to the group.

Yes, I know, most people (other than evolutionary psychologists) disagree with this theory, yet ironically if such mechanism is operating, then the denial is exactly what should be expected.
I suppose one could say it behooves humans not to know why they behave/believe the
way they do.

But I agree that trying to "force" someone to believe one way or another is complete folly and is going against eons of cultural and evolutionary development.

But if someone asks for my opinion or is seeking out information, then I'll gladly share what I can.

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby Lausten » Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:58 pm

A-number wrote:When you go to school, does the teacher every time proceed to put down everybody and tell them how stupid they are and dumb? That's not how one changes the world. That will never work if you guys think this is The Strategy. When you do that, people by nature tend to pull out and be on the defensive, and retract further, and deeper, into their own ideological den, from which, it will prove harder and harder to get them out of it each and every time you try. And that works the same way on other levels as well.

Are you familiar with anyone who went to Catholic school? Maybe the nuns aren't like they used to be, but the entire idea of God is still based on getting kicked out of the garden for wanting knowledge. And you don't need the direct references, our culture is infused with people claiming to be holier or smarter than the rest.

There are no "you guys" and there is no "Strategy". There are people who express themselves, sometimes poorly. I prefer hanging out with people who can openly criticize the most famous and respected people that hold similar values without fear of an authoritarian repercussion. There is no one right way to deal with someone in denial. Your comments are correct about defensiveness, except not always.
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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Sat Dec 13, 2014 5:35 pm

A-number wrote:Now that's a beautiful little precious study you gave me here, Paul. Thank you so much for it.
I used the You in general and not specifically in application to you. I am sorry I didn't specify the intention. Now can you please post that back? I really need to re-read it :P .

Yikes! I don't know if I can remember my exact words ( :oops: ) but here's few links for your own research;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Spi ... atheist.3F
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2008 ... e.religion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology



I absolutely agree with that and thank you so much for the sentence "selection pressure" as I never heard or read it b4. Based on what is going on today and what I read about the past, it absolutely makes sense to me. It really does.


It's still considered controversial in the scientific community, but it does seem to be a candidate to explain the universal aspect of religion;
Adaptationist perspectives on religious belief suggest that, like all behavior, religious behaviors are a product of the human brain. As with all other organ functions, cognition's functional structure has been argued to have a genetic foundation, and is therefore subject to the effects of natural selection and sexual selection. Like other organs and tissues, this functional structure should be universally shared amongst humans and should have solved important problems of survival and reproduction in ancestral environments. However, evolutionary psychologists remain divided on whether religious belief is more likely a consequence of evolved psychological adaptations,[132] or is a byproduct of other cognitive adaptations.[133]



Oh myyy Gaaawwwd. You're gooooood, you really are. Again, you hammered the nail right on the head!!!Thank you so much.


I don't know if I'm that good,... :P ...I'm just trying to muddle through and understand the universe like everyone else. But thanks for the encouraging words. :)

But if someone asks for my opinion or is seeking out information, then I'll gladly share what I can.


Thank you sooo oooo soo much for giving it Paul. I was going to say "you have no clue". Well actually you probably do have a clue how powerful this "little" post of yours IS!


Your welcome.
:puppy:

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby digress » Sat Dec 13, 2014 8:17 pm

A-number wrote:
digress wrote:
A-number wrote:
digress wrote:You fail to rise to the occasion.


NO I did not. I asked a very simple question that needed very simple answer, instead you gave me an empty meanless lecture.


You said that I should have said


I never said you "should have" said, what I said IS you COULD HAVE, said. This ends right here. You can keep on talking, but it won't be to me if you are going to be putting words in my mouth. Words I never used.


I'm sorry, but you went on to say, "and that would have been a right answer for me". I think this implies I should have said it since at the very least the right answer for you would have avoided worthless personal advice I recommended and practice which provoked your response to bring that effort down.

But I agree. Let's put this aside.
  God is an idea.  

"For now, I am going to err on the side of freedom of speech..." -Pyrrho
"Every instance that has always existed is a piece of evidence that God is not needed." -yrreg
"I am not a concept..." -Confidencia

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:19 pm

Other animals have hierarchies, organized behaviors, even a semblance of norms. Only humans have religion and science. And the two have seldom been on civil terms.

Jeff Anderson and Julie Korenberg, neuroscientists at the University of Utah, want to change that. They're among a growing number of scientists aiming their field's most sophisticated machinery at religious cognition.


http://www.latimes.com/science/la-sci-c ... tml#page=1

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby Lausten » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Could you maybe give us a few hyperlinks there A-number, so many references to things that I've never heard of. Do you mean Mohammad Atta? The 9-11 guy? Was he even born during MK-Ultra?

Of course MK-Ultra might have already gotten to me, so maybe I'm only debunking it because I'm under their mind control. From wikipedia:

MKUltra used numerous methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture.[9][better source needed]

The scope of Project MKUltra was broad, with research undertaken at 80 institutions, including 44 colleges and universities, as well as hospitals, prisons and pharmaceutical companies.


I was handed some things during college by people I've never seen since, and since then I've had a variety of jobs that involve sitting in a tiny cubicle which covers the abuse, sensory deprivation and isolation, so, could be.
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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby Lausten » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:54 am

Information is available, but most people don't use it. I love the new Facebook feature where related articles are automatically selected for you, so if you show a photoshopped picture of an iguana with a human head, it provides the "this is fake" companion article. Even so, people only click on and read the one that they want to be true, instead of reading both and considering they might be wrong.
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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby HghrSymmetry » Sat Feb 14, 2015 4:35 am

phpBB [video]

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby gorgeous » Mon Feb 16, 2015 12:40 am

“The fanatical atheists are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who – in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’ – cannot hear the music of the spheres.”

–Albert Einstein
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby Lausten » Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:06 pm

Einstein did actually say that, but he said it about people in his time. He was hopeful that science would have an affect on the religious world (be it Christian, Muslim or Seth) and that the two would come to realize that their sense of awe and wonder came from basically the same place. Unfortunately, for too many people, that has proven inaccurate. Taking Einstein out of context is always dicey and understanding his full context means understanding his entire life, which is almost impossible.
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Re: Trying on Letting Go

Postby gorgeous » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:24 pm

"When the solution is simple, God is answering." - Albert Einstein-----Einstein believed in God, not a personal God though......
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.


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