I'm almost ashamed…

Read any good books lately?
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I'm almost ashamed…

Postby nmblum88 » Tue May 26, 2015 6:04 pm

… of how much I enjoyed (yes, ENJOYED!!) this truly horrendous evocation of the Black Death… arguably the greatest devastation by epidemic disease in the verifiable history of mankind:
"The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death" by John Kelly..
Spent the entire holiday, a celebration of needless deaths and mind-numbing hypocrisy, reading it…
really informative and enlightening work.
Try it: you'll like it…

This may not be not be the best exploration of that (only by luck) singular event but it is the most accessible, free of turgid prose, incredibly we'll researched, full of lively anecdote, and most certainly a work of remarkable scholarship: history approached with the sword of evocative journalism.
With terrific notes, and a splendid index.

What is interesting, at least to me, and what caused me to go look for a treatise on pandemic illness, is our own recent (and shocking) public suspicion of mandated inoculation against possibly epidemic, too often fatal, and always dangerous diseases …
In our rush to both judgment and disaster, and our "tolerance" of incomprehension as a fact of libertarian thinking we seem to have forgotten that religion, distrust of authority, lack of education, institutionalized ignorance AND denial (some of our most salient contemporary characteristics) all played a part in the wildfire spread of the Black Death through Europe and across the world…


Learn, gasp, shudder and shake.
And relish the fascinating message and the talent of the messenger.

NMB

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 26, 2015 9:26 pm

what is interesting is some who are treating people in any epidemic never get sick while others do...why is that? ...Is it their belief in their own vitality and good health as Seth states?...I think so...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Poodle » Tue May 26, 2015 9:31 pm

gorgeous wrote:what is interesting is some who are treating people in any epidemic never get sick while others do...why is that? ...Is it their belief in their own vitality and good health as Seth states?...I think so...


You're spot on there, gorgeous. Just believe and you won't get it. I'll just nip over to West Africa and tell them the good news.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 26, 2015 9:33 pm

that's something science should study...why some are often sick while others rarely get sick...what traits do the healthy ones have?
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Poodle » Tue May 26, 2015 9:38 pm

I dunno. Antibodies?

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Tue May 26, 2015 9:40 pm

attitude has a lot to do with illness....dis-ease---not at ease in your life......AIDS has AIDED doctors in learning about the body/mind connection in living with an illness....
Last edited by gorgeous on Wed May 27, 2015 2:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 27, 2015 12:33 am

Gorgeous wrote:that's something science should study...why some are often sick while others rarely get sick...what traits do the healthy ones have?
Poodle wrote:I dunno. Antibodies?
I can't believe anyone can be as dimwitted as Gorgeous.
:D

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Gord » Wed May 27, 2015 12:51 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gorgeous wrote:that's something science should study...why some are often sick while others rarely get sick...what traits do the healthy ones have?
Poodle wrote:I dunno. Antibodies?
I can't believe anyone can be as dimwitted as Gorgeous.
:D

I don't believe you can't believe it. :P
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Lausten » Wed May 27, 2015 1:14 pm

Gord wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gorgeous wrote:that's something science should study...why some are often sick while others rarely get sick...what traits do the healthy ones have?
Poodle wrote:I dunno. Antibodies?
I can't believe anyone can be as dimwitted as Gorgeous.
:D

I don't believe you can't believe it. :P

I dunno Gord. As you know, I've been at this for a while, and "maybe scientists should study disease" is a new one. What makes it funnier is the OP mentions something that actually led to massive death rates, ignorance. Not stupidity, but actually ignoring available information.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed May 27, 2015 1:22 pm

Lausten wrote: and "maybe scientists should study disease" is a new one.


"The gorgeous plan for scientists to study diseases".

She's maybe onto something, although it does sound like 1950's communist economic plan, from China.
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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Monster » Wed May 27, 2015 2:02 pm

gorgeous wrote:Is it their belief in their own vitality and good health as Seth states?

That's not it.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Wed May 27, 2015 2:16 pm

not study dis-ease....but those who treat them and don't get sick...seth-------Thoughts and beliefs do indeed bring about physical alterations. They can even – and often do – change genetic messages.

There are diseases that people believe are inherited, carried from one generation to another by a faulty genetic communication. Obviously, many people with, for example, a genetic heritage of arthritis, do not come down with the disease themselves, while others indeed are so afflicted. The difference is one of belief.

The people who have accepted the suggestion uncritically that they will inherit such a malady do then seem to inherit it: they experience the symptoms. Actually the belief itself may have turned a healthy genetic message into an unhealthy one.
---------------------------Many other conditions that seem to be spread by viruses or contagions are also related to the problems of society in the same manner, and when these conditions are righted the diseases themselves largely vanish. It should be remembered that it is the beliefs and feelings of the patients that largely determine the effectiveness of any medical procedures, techniques or medications.
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Lausten » Wed May 27, 2015 2:34 pm

So, getting back to the "scientists should study that" part. What evidence to you have that any of the above is true? Genetics was discovered just last century, not by anyone meditating or by aliens writing it on temple walls, and scientists have some understanding of what is inherited and what isn't and how traits can be triggered. As yet, I haven't seen a paper on belief making a difference.
A sermon helper that doesn't tell you what to believe: http://www.milepost100.com

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Wed May 27, 2015 2:41 pm

Health beliefs and illness perceptions as related to ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/...

National Center for Biotechnology Information

by F Anagnostopoulos - ‎2012 - ‎Cited by 10 - ‎Related articles
J Clin Psychol Med Settings. 2012 Jun;19(2):147-64. doi: 10.1007/s10880-011-9272-1. Health beliefs and illness perceptions as related to mammography ...-------------------------------------
Scholarly articles for beliefs and illness


… : a comparison of the beliefs of patients visiting a … - ‎Furnham - Cited by 223

Common-sense beliefs about illness: a mediating role … - ‎Williams - Cited by 83

Health beliefs and illness attitudes as predictors of … - ‎Lostao - Cited by 76
--------------------------------Beliefs and Illness: A Model for Healing - Amazon.com

www.amazon.com/Beliefs-Illness-A.../1897530099
Amazon.com, Inc.

Rating: 5 - ‎1 review
Beliefs and Illness: A Model for Healing [Lorraine M. Wright, RN, PhD, Janice M. Bell]
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby gorgeous » Wed May 27, 2015 3:15 pm

Can Positive Thinking Help You Heal? | Psychology Today

https://www.psychologytoday.com/.../can-positive-thi...


Psychology Today

Lissa Rankin, MD discusses a CNN article on positive thinking. ... and expectation can trigger self-healing superpowers that manifest physiologically in the body, ...

USATODAY.com - Power of a super attitude

usatoday30.usatoday.com/.../health/2004-10-12-mind-body_...

USA Today

Oct 12, 2004 - Positive thinking and a positive attitude may indeed have power. ... chronic stress and psychological stress can impede wounds from healing, ...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Lausten » Wed May 27, 2015 4:07 pm

The links you provided are all broken or lead to home pages. I'm aware there is research related to emotions and feelings about health. But you made some pretty specific claims with no real backup. You've taken a few studies and turned it into a religion.
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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu May 28, 2015 1:54 am

gorgeous wrote:Can Positive Thinking Help You Heal?
Not on its own, Gorgeous. It's called the placebo effect, since 1955.
http://skepdic.com/placebo.html

Skeptic Dictionary.
"The placebo effect is the measurable, observable, or felt improvement in health or behavior not attributable to a medication or invasive treatment that has been administered. The placebo effect is not mind over matter; it is not mind-body medicine. 'The placebo effect' has become a catchall term for a positive change in health not attributable to medication or treatment. As is explained below, the change can be due to many things, such as regression to the mean, spontaneous improvement, reduction of stress, misdiagnosis in the first place, subject expectancy, classical conditioning, etc."


I'm going through IVF with my partner, through IVF Australia. IVF Australia recommended my partner have acupuncture. Our specialist told me in private to "go with the flow". I said "Is there statistical evidence a placebo works for IVF" He said "No, but there is evidence placebos work and we are gathering data". So I shook his hand, kept my opinions to myself and kept my mouth shut. This is a proper scientific approach pertaining to reduction of stress, in our particular case.

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Re: I'm almost ashamed…

Postby JO 753 » Thu May 28, 2015 3:30 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:I can't believe anyone can be as dimwitted as Gorgeous.
:D


You hav a very limited imajination.
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