Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Read any good books lately?
nmblum88
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Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby nmblum88 » Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:26 pm

…. working in my garden, and fooling around with my bees, after having neglected i their various beauties for a few days of attending to the demands of the I.R.S…

But I got involved , at breakfast, in "American Apocalypse," by Matthew Avery Sutton…. a history of the contemporary American evangelical movement….
Fascinating AND anxiety provoking.. because while it is easy to laugh at, or scorn the religious and particularly the evangelists, there is no underestimating the influence their thinking has, and has always had, in the national ethos…
They clearly have , as the author makes clear, a long historical standing , an enormous, often patent, but sometimes subliminal influence on the American political processes as those processes evolve into matters of policy , as well as influencing elections.

"Why bother with problems of climate, environmental disaster, including but not restricted to the obvious, and clearly observable effects of a terrible drought?"
Why try even attempt to reverse the damages?
To use our technological prowess, our scientific knowledge to at lead attempt to ameliorate the already patent signs of dangerous deterioration?

Evangelical belief, and American exceptionalism are rooted in the same theology:
Thus it is no accident that our suicidal approach (as a nation) to problems of god gaveth and god taleth away , has made us a frightening specter of ignorance to the rest of the industrialized world.
Why bother with climate change, environmental disasters, including the obvious and clearly observable effects of a terrible drought?
Nothing very new there.
But I closed the book for a moment when I came upon this quote from Ronald Reagan..
Already President of the United States of America…. the most technologically advanced nation on earth , Reagan wrote in his diary: "Sometimes I wonder if we are DESTINED to witness Armageddon…"
(Emphasis mine, NMB).
And it's true: why bother with a Congress if the Rapture is inevitable… and soon??

NMB

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby gorgeous » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:13 pm

death is not the end...we all will return...
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:20 pm

http://www.amazon.ca/American-Apocalyps ... 0674048369

Ohhhh it's a book! I thought you were advocating blowing up the country.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:21 pm

gorgeous wrote:death is not the end...we all will return...

Planning on having yourself frozen?
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby gorgeous » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:27 pm

no....reincarnation....people who travel out of body see souls (balls of light) descending to the Earth to reincarnate again, some even in classes learning the fast track of evolution (suffering to rid yourself of bad karma)...the slow track was said to be a healthy, comfortable life....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:30 pm

gorgeous wrote:no....reincarnation....

Please leave me out of your will. :lol:
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Lausten » Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:42 am

nmblum wrote:
Already President of the United States of America…. the most technologically advanced nation on earth , Reagan wrote in his diary: "Sometimes I wonder if we are DESTINED to witness Armageddon…"
(Emphasis mine, NMB).
And it's true: why bother with a Congress if the Rapture is inevitable… and soon??

NMB

Sometimes when I tell my wife about an argument I'm having with my Baptist cousin or one of our new age friends about whether or not prayer works or our souls can see star beams or something, she asks me why I bother, why it matters to me. I think my standard answer from now on will be, because they vote.
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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Doubting Thomas » Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:56 am

nmblum wrote: I closed the book for a moment when I came upon this quote from Ronald Reagan..
Already President of the United States of America…. the most technologically advanced nation on earth , Reagan wrote in his diary: "Sometimes I wonder if we are DESTINED to witness Armageddon…"
(Emphasis mine, NMB).
And it's true: why bother with a Congress if the Rapture is inevitable… and soon??

NMB

The quote, presented in its intended context: "The turbulent sweep of the White House years provides unvarnished details of acrimonious moments with his kids — "Insanity is hereditary you catch it from your kids" — optimism after meeting Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev (he refers to him as Gorby) and fears of war in the Middle East — "Sometimes I wonder if we are destined to witness Armageddon.""

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18790511/ns/p ... S4zNpV0w5s
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. – William Shakespeare

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Lausten » Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:47 pm

Doubting Thomas wrote:

The quote, presented in its intended context: [/quote]
And that changes it,.... how?
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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby nmblum88 » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:06 pm

Lausten wrote:
Doubting Thomas wrote:

The quote, presented in its intended context:

And that changes it,…. how?


Perhaps I should have made my intent (in repeating Reagan's comment) plainer.

Language counts, the words we use reveal how we think, the limits of our thinking, our confusions. .
So for ME, personally, the word 'DESTINED " used in the context of the fate of our planet, is a red flag conjuring conjuring up prayer as a tool for dealing with our dilemmas, and the dangers that face us, personally and as a species.
Or just staring into space, while waiting for the gods to do what it is that gods do.
And as man should know by now, what his gods DO is not always either satisfactory or even successful.

"Que sera, sera " is a cultural a motto with a great deal of charm to it….
But Americans will have none of i
And there's the conundrum : the dichotomy between our religious fervor and our pride in our "can do" activism.
Americans are contemptuous of "sue sera, sera" …and in love with 'If it's broke we will fix it."…. the Protestant work ethic.
In fact we are into fixing what isn't even broken… we are famous for constant change for the sake of change.
We don't as a national characteristic depend on "if god wanted man to go the the moon, the bible would have a story about a moon landing."
We go to the moon whether we have to or not.
So back to "DESTINED."
The idea of the most powerful man in the world, backed by the greatest accumulation of destructive weapons ever conceived of by the human mind, talking about destiny, rather than "I have a plan to save us.."
Well, it just boggles the mind.
But don't misunderstand me…..please.
I DO want to be saved…… I just can't get my head around the idea that being saved is my destiny.
I think that as a nation, and as denizens of Planet Earth, if we want to be saved we damn well better do it ourselves.


NMB

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Lausten » Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:32 pm

I went to see John Dominic Crossan talk about his book "How to Read the Bible and Still Remain a Christian". He didn't address the "remain" part, instead talked about this choice from the first century of peace through the violent means of Rome or the non-violent path of Jesus. Then he talked about how the Jesus path was corrupted and, here's the important part, that we need to somehow get back to "Him" so we can choose that path. Details were not provided.

Then I came across a Pope Francis quote saying people are incapable of overcoming our violent nature, with obvious implications of what we need to do about that.

Those two are on nearly opposite ends of the Christian spectrum, but both think we measly humans can't do anything without Jesus. It's "original sin" with a thin coat of gloss.
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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby vanderpoel » Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:45 pm

nmblum wrote:…. working in my garden, and fooling around with my bees...
NMB

Mmm, I was getting all worked up about religion but then I read the headline, so I calmed down, didn't want to spoil your buzz :)
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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Doubting Thomas » Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:27 pm

"In fact we are into fixing what isn't even broken… we are famous for constant change for the sake of change."
Reading this reminded me of the time I spent many years ago when I was young and craved the excitement of working on political campaigns. The planning session usually involved thinking of problems that could easily gain public support. Our candidate would then develop a plan to "fix" the problem, and would blame the incumbent for being insensitive to the issue, who sometimes never knew what hit him. The thing that impressed me was how easily the public could be manipulated. The issue was often quickly forgotten and ceased to be a problem as soon as the election was over.

The basic premise hasn't changed much in the past thirty years except the system has become more refined. Now these issues have become the purpose for non-profits who raise money to finance their own political candidates. The spurious objectives of these groups are larger than life and continue to exist even after the politician fades from view.

I think you and I are alike in one respect Norma, we don't concern ourselves much with these things, but we do like to poke at the wood pile now and then to see what slithers out.
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. – William Shakespeare

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby Doubting Thomas » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:18 pm

I hope you have another gorgeous day in the garden Norma; you don't have to concern yourself with the drones, I understand they don't make honey but at least they don't have stingers.
The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool. – William Shakespeare

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Re: Meant to have a pleasant morning…

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:57 pm

Doubting Thomas wrote:I hope you have another gorgeous day in the garden Norma; you don't have to concern yourself with the drones, I understand they don't make honey but at least they don't have stingers.



But the lesson of the hive is that while not all bees are created equal, there would be no honey without the dull, plodding drone.
Besides:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmP2hzpmPnM.

NMB

P.S. And while the drone may not have stingers, there are many ways to leave scars.
Mother Nature seems to take care of her own.
N.


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