When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

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When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:42 pm

When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Martin Luther.
“Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding.”
“Reason is a whore, the greatest enemy that faith has.”

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Poodle » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:55 am

Reaching the age of reason is not the same thing as achieving reason. Even if one achieves reason, there are other reasons (no pun intended) for continuing to participate in religious activity. Some people, Gnostic Bishop, practice atheism or agnosticism in a religious manner.
So the answer is a definite maybe.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:48 am

Indeed. I practice religion when the TPO suggests it, but don`t believe in it. Going thru the gestures; the ceremony, makes it easier socially.

TPO - Time, Place, and Occasion (funerals, visits to architecturally significant shrines, weddings, a large group prayer before a meal, etc.)

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:39 am

I got kicked out of Sunday School when I was seven years old.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:50 am

TJrandom wrote:Indeed. I practice religion when the TPO suggests it, but don`t believe in it. Going thru the gestures; the ceremony, makes it easier socially.

TPO - Time, Place, and Occasion (funerals, visits to architecturally significant shrines, weddings, a large group prayer before a meal, etc.)


Well perhaps I would have put that a little differently. As an Atheist, I certainly do not practice any religion. However, on certain occasions as you have mentioned, I will attend funerals (if I can't get out of it), I will certainly visit shrines &etc for their historical relevance, weddings of course, but the "large group prayer" I would not partake in. I would be polite and stand, but that is all. If it was a Muslim affair and I was asked to bow down as they do - well I wouldn't be there in the first place.

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Phoenix76 » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:56 am

Must add a note of explanation to that last post.

I said funerals if I can't get out of it. As a Vietnam Vet, I have suffered over the years. That's okay, part of the territory. But having seen what I've seen, I have a very difficult time with funerals. Last one I went to was my Sister-In-Law's. I'm certainly a lot better these days, but it was bloody hard. When she passed away in hospital, in the private ward, my wife asked if I wanted to go in and say goodbye. Well, I stood up, but I sat down straight away. I was shaking like a tree in a storm.

So I wasn't being flippant in my comment. There is good reason for it.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:09 am

I don't do funerals. I won't even go to my own.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:20 am

I have been to only one funeral, my fathers. Lots of people with nothing to say. Still very happy I did not go to Mom's funeral. She is still with me in contemplation.

"Ceremony."----I decline.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:32 am

Correction to my above: I went to the Y-donor's funeral. Two reasons: I wanted to make sure he was dead and I wanted to be able to find his grave in the dark.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:07 pm

Poodle wrote:Reaching the age of reason is not the same thing as achieving reason. Even if one achieves reason, there are other reasons (no pun intended) for continuing to participate in religious activity. Some people, Gnostic Bishop, practice atheism or agnosticism in a religious manner.
So the answer is a definite maybe.


If participating in a religion like Christianity and Islam, which have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions which have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds, then what would justify making a believer stay in such a vile and immoral religion?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:11 pm

TJrandom wrote:Indeed. I practice religion when the TPO suggests it, but don`t believe in it. Going thru the gestures; the ceremony, makes it easier socially.

TPO - Time, Place, and Occasion (funerals, visits to architecturally significant shrines, weddings, a large group prayer before a meal, etc.)


So you only show support for immoral religions on occasion. Ok.

You think that to be a moral thing to do.

Do you also step up to take your share of the blame when that religion shows itself to be less than moral?

Like when it practices intolerance homophobia and misogyny?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:12 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I got kicked out of Sunday School when I was seven years old.


Why?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:20 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:[

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


Why shoe respect for religions that do not deserve them? Is that not being hypocritical?

I am working on a new O.P. Please have a quick look at what you are saying you offer respect to and I extrapolate you think we should respect as well.

---------------

Yahweh. Obey like a slave. Allah. Submit like a slave. Do you see a difference?

I find it strange that all-powerful Gods have a need or want of slaves, but if slavery is all that Christians and Muslims aspire to after death, I am sure glad I am a Gnostic Christian and see Jesus as not being of the same ilk as Christian and Muslim slave aspirers. Jesus said he came to serve man but I guess that he is not like his father. Thank God for that. –;)

In the arena of cultural evolution, the secular and humanist West has decided that Jesus wins the God Wars. Christians have gone along with revering the nice (sort of) God, Jesus, instead of his poor satanic father.

If Muslims do not also go along with that archetypal prophet and savior Jesus, as being more authoritative than Muhammad, they will not survive and the religion will die.

This is inevitable as the world will not allow open religious slavery, --- which is what Muslim and Christian ideologies promote.

No?

On Muslim slavery. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUOSIhg86oc
On archetypal Jesus. https://clyp.it/lqeu3cku

---------

Phoenix76

Why do you show respect for immoral religions?

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:32 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I got kicked out of Sunday School when I was seven years old.


Why?

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DL

I asked the teacher for my class why God had to kill all the kittens just because some people were bad.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:10 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I got kicked out of Sunday School when I was seven years old.


Why?

Regards
DL

I asked the teacher for my class why God had to kill all the kittens just because some people were bad.


Nice that you would recognize that early in life that when one can cure as well as kill, that curing is the thing to do. You showed good morals early.

For the evils of religion to grow, all moral people need do is nothing.

I am quite militant in my zeal to improve religious thinking.

I hope you go to more religious forums to try to correct the poor morals of theists.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:12 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:[

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


Why shoe respect for religions that do not deserve them? Is that not being hypocritical?



You're conflating the baby and the bathwater.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:23 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I hope you go to more religious forums to try to correct the poor morals of theists.

Regards
DL

Where's the fun in that?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:37 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Phoenix76 wrote:[

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


Why shoe respect for religions that do not deserve them? Is that not being hypocritical?



You're conflating the baby and the bathwater.


Not in the least.

But thanks for your chastisement without correction.

It shows the hate in your heart so I do not think I want to think anything like you do.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:41 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I hope you go to more religious forums to try to correct the poor morals of theists.

Regards
DL

Where's the fun in that?


I did not suggest fun, although I do get to laugh a lot at some of the replies I get from theists.

I was talking more of duty than fun, but if fun is all you want and do not feel a duty to correct the poor thinking of your fellow man and reduce the harm to society, then continue to focus on fun.

I just hope that someone you love does not become a victim of the evil you ignore for fun.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:It shows the hate in your heart so I do not think I want to think anything like you do.

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DL

What'cha smokin', dude?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:07 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I hope you go to more religious forums to try to correct the poor morals of theists.

Regards
DL

Where's the fun in that?


I did not suggest fun, although I do get to laugh a lot at some of the replies I get from theists.

I was talking more of duty than fun, but if fun is all you want and do not feel a duty to correct the poor thinking of your fellow man and reduce the harm to society, then continue to focus on fun.

I just hope that someone you love does not become a victim of the evil you ignore for fun.

Regards
DL

I'm 66 years old. I've killed a lot of dragons. I'm retired now. Dragons can {!#%@} off.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:43 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote: I am quite militant in my zeal to improve religious thinking.

Took three times to figure out why people are getting upset. Glad I took the time: always suspect the oxymoron. Like morals: there is no thinking in religion.

But I post to confirm Gawd's experience. I got kicked out of Sunday School for saying rain could not make the oceans rise during Noah's great flood.... so where did all the water come from? Mom told me I was too disruptive for the teacher. Religious people are like that.

Show me a person that is militant about any given issue, and I'll show you someone who is more generally humorous. No reason for that.......but there it is.

EDIT: " more generally UNhumorous." Ha, ha........does make a difference.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:01 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:It shows the hate in your heart so I do not think I want to think anything like you do.

Regards
DL

What'cha smokin', dude?


More hate. Is that all you are good for?

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:02 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I hope you go to more religious forums to try to correct the poor morals of theists.

Regards
DL

Where's the fun in that?


I did not suggest fun, although I do get to laugh a lot at some of the replies I get from theists.

I was talking more of duty than fun, but if fun is all you want and do not feel a duty to correct the poor thinking of your fellow man and reduce the harm to society, then continue to focus on fun.

I just hope that someone you love does not become a victim of the evil you ignore for fun.

Regards
DL

I'm 66 years old. I've killed a lot of dragons. I'm retired now. Dragons can {!#%@} off.


We are the same age. A shame you have lost your sword.

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:06 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

The term "supernatural religion" is redundant. And I was fortunate enough to be both raised by atheists and taught the history of religion.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

You're making a personal value judgment here, but not qualifying it to any degree. On what basis do you decree Christianity and Islam "immoral religions?" What other religions do you consider "immoral," and why? And which religions, in your opinion, are "moral?" Why are they "moral?"
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Wouldn't "deity/deities" be more appropriate here? Or are you trying to make a particular point about your god?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:07 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote: I am quite militant in my zeal to improve religious thinking.

Took three times to figure out why people are getting upset. Glad I took the time: always suspect the oxymoron. Like morals: there is no thinking in religion.

But I post to confirm Gawd's experience. I got kicked out of Sunday School for saying rain could not make the oceans rise during Noah's great flood.... so where did all the water come from? Mom told me I was too disruptive for the teacher. Religious people are like that.

Show me a person that is militant about any given issue, and I'll show you someone who is more generally humorous. No reason for that.......but there it is.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

I hear what you are saying and I am known for my humor, but I have a hard timer applying Jefferson's standard even as I wish I was more skilled at ridicule.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:08 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
We are the same age. A shame you have lost your sword.

Regards
DL

You haven't detected my {!#%@} yet?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:22 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote: Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

I hear what you are saying and I am known for my humor, but I have a hard timer applying Jefferson's standard even as I wish I was more skilled at ridicule.


Well...........take heart GB==Jefferson is so obviously wrong. Only a militant non-humorous zealot would think any situation only has one response.

Know what I mean?
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:23 pm

LunaNik wrote:[
quote="Gnostic Bishop"]When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

The term "supernatural religion" is redundant. And I was fortunate enough to be both raised by atheists and taught the history of religion.


If all religions were supernaturally based, I would agree with your "redundant", but they are not.

There are a number of religions that are knowledge and wisdom based. Buddhism and my own Gnostic Christianity comes to mind.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you seek a moral religion to replace the immoral one you now follow, if you happen to be Christian or Muslim?

You're making a personal value judgment here, but not qualifying it to any degree. On what basis do you decree Christianity and Islam "immoral religions?" What other religions do you consider "immoral," and why?


I live in North America and only concern myself with the mainstream religions of Christianity and Islam.

I consider them immoral as they both wish to enslave their theist to God. Obey unquestioningly in Christianity and submit unquestioningly for Islam. Both have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I.

That is why I see them as immoral creeds.

And which religions, in your opinion, are "moral?" Why are they "moral?"


I see the religions that promote knowledge and wisdom as religions that free man from our social controllers and the control institutions, be they religious or political that control us. Gnostic Christians put themselves above those social controllers the way Jesus taught we should so as to be completely free of their influence. Free thinking is the mandate of a Gnostic Christian. Not to the point of anarchy or anything like that, but to the point of picking and choosing the best laws to follow regardless of the source and to attack the laws that we see as harmful and a deterrent to complete freedom of the person.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

Wouldn't "deity/deities" be more appropriate here? Or are you trying to make a particular point about your god?
[/quote]

6 of one, a half dozen of the other. IOW. Semantics.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:25 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote: Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson

I hear what you are saying and I am known for my humor, but I have a hard timer applying Jefferson's standard even as I wish I was more skilled at ridicule.


Well...........take heart GB==Jefferson is so obviously wrong. Only a militant non-humorous zealot would think any situation only has one response.

Know what I mean?


I hear you. He likely meant best and not only. I see his as bright enough for that.

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DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Poodle » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:12 pm

Been on the zoob juice, GB? You're much more acerbic than usual.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jun 12, 2017 6:12 pm

LunaNik wrote:The term "supernatural religion" is redundant. And I was fortunate enough to be both raised by atheists and taught the history of religion.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If all religions were supernaturally based, I would agree with your "redundant", but they are not.

There are a number of religions that are knowledge and wisdom based. Buddhism and my own Gnostic Christianity comes to mind.

You're mistaken. The very idea of religion is supernatural in nature. If the tenets include a deity or deities, the idea of an afterlife, or other concepts that cannot be proven with evidence, then the term "supernatural" applies. So both Buddhism and your own Gnostic Christianity are supernatural in nature. Therefore, the term "supernatural religion" is redundant.
LunaNik wrote:You're making a personal value judgment here, but not qualifying it to any degree. On what basis do you decree Christianity and Islam "immoral religions?" What other religions do you consider "immoral," and why?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I live in North America and only concern myself with the mainstream religions of Christianity and Islam.

I consider them immoral as they both wish to enslave their theist to God. Obey unquestioningly in Christianity and submit unquestioningly for Islam. Both have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. That is why I see them as immoral creeds.

So, you paint all Christians and Muslims as immoral based on the tenets of their respective faiths? Yikes.
LunaNik wrote:And which religions, in your opinion, are "moral?" Why are they "moral?"

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I see the religions that promote knowledge and wisdom as religions that free man from our social controllers and the control institutions, be they religious or political that control us. Gnostic Christians put themselves above those social controllers the way Jesus taught we should so as to be completely free of their influence. Free thinking is the mandate of a Gnostic Christian. Not to the point of anarchy or anything like that, but to the point of picking and choosing the best laws to follow regardless of the source and to attack the laws that we see as harmful and a deterrent to complete freedom of the person.

Thank you for clarifying your distinction. Also, where exactly did Jesus say, "Thou shalt picketh and chooseth the laws of Man thou feeleth are worthy to obey?" I don't recall that directive.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

LunaNik wrote:Wouldn't "deity/deities" be more appropriate here? Or are you trying to make a particular point about your god?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:6 of one, a half dozen of the other. IOW. Semantics.

Since you are the OP, it's helpful to know where you're coming from. And since this is a debate conducted solely with the written word, without facial expression or body language cues, semantics is not something to be dismissed lightly. Say what you mean.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:13 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Indeed. I practice religion when the TPO suggests it, but don`t believe in it. Going thru the gestures; the ceremony, makes it easier socially.

TPO - Time, Place, and Occasion (funerals, visits to architecturally significant shrines, weddings, a large group prayer before a meal, etc.)


So you only show support for immoral religions on occasion. Ok.

You think that to be a moral thing to do.

Do you also step up to take your share of the blame when that religion shows itself to be less than moral?

Like when it practices intolerance homophobia and misogyny?

Regards
DL


If you work hard at it, you are able to misconstrue greatly. That doesn`t make you great; just silly.

For clarity - I did NOT say I support religions - rather that I tolerate their presence when the social setting requires it. To do less is disrespectful to the group. At a funeral, I sit quietly as the priest does his chants to lift the deceased over the river and onto the path to his eternal whatever. Sitting quietly instead of shouting BS - that which is on my mind, does NOT support that religion. And yes - not causing additional stress to the relatives of the deceased, in my book, IS the moral thing to do.

I am firmly against homophobia and misogyny, but do think your thought process is truly screwed - for connecting these to what I wrote. FFS, why stop there - why not throw in racism, fat shaming, pedophilia, etc.?

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby TJrandom » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:20 pm

Phoenix76 wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Indeed. I practice religion when the TPO suggests it, but don`t believe in it. Going thru the gestures; the ceremony, makes it easier socially.

TPO - Time, Place, and Occasion (funerals, visits to architecturally significant shrines, weddings, a large group prayer before a meal, etc.)


Well perhaps I would have put that a little differently. As an Atheist, I certainly do not practice any religion. However, on certain occasions as you have mentioned, I will attend funerals (if I can't get out of it), I will certainly visit shrines &etc for their historical relevance, weddings of course, but the "large group prayer" I would not partake in. I would be polite and stand, but that is all. If it was a Muslim affair and I was asked to bow down as they do - well I wouldn't be there in the first place.

Yes going through the gestures, it does offer respect to friends and acquaintances, and I believe that is right.


For clarity - my reference to large group prayer, would include invocations at the start of a ball game, or prior to a lunchtime speaker event, etc. The only way to not participate would be to remove oneself which could get quite messy if one bolts for the door, knocking people from their seats, spilling their popcorn, or even taking a more direct route - over the tables, water pitchers flying, etc. So instead, I sit quietly – not disrupting.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:02 pm

You see, just acting like the run of the mill holiday and Sunday morning faithful.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:13 pm

Poodle wrote:Been on the zoob juice, GB? You're much more acerbic than usual.

I love it when people preach at me.
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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:29 pm

Poodle wrote:Been on the zoob juice, GB? You're much more acerbic than usual.


It depends on how many religious fools I have dealt with at any given point in time.

I am also quitting smoking.

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:34 pm

LunaNik wrote:[
quote="LunaNik"]The term "supernatural religion" is redundant. And I was fortunate enough to be both raised by atheists and taught the history of religion.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If all religions were supernaturally based, I would agree with your "redundant", but they are not.

There are a number of religions that are knowledge and wisdom based. Buddhism and my own Gnostic Christianity comes to mind.

You're mistaken. The very idea of religion is supernatural in nature. If the tenets include a deity or deities, the idea of an afterlife, or other concepts that cannot be proven with evidence, then the term "supernatural" applies. So both Buddhism and your own Gnostic Christianity are supernatural in nature. Therefore, the term "supernatural religion" is redundant.


Buddha was not a God and neither is the Gnostic Christian ideal.Therefore, the term "supernatural religion" does not apply.


LunaNik wrote:You're making a personal value judgment here, but not qualifying it to any degree. On what basis do you decree Christianity and Islam "immoral religions?" What other religions do you consider "immoral," and why?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I live in North America and only concern myself with the mainstream religions of Christianity and Islam.

I consider them immoral as they both wish to enslave their theist to God. Obey unquestioningly in Christianity and submit unquestioningly for Islam. Both have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. That is why I see them as immoral creeds.

So, you paint all Christians and Muslims as immoral based on the tenets of their respective faiths? Yikes.
LunaNik wrote:And which religions, in your opinion, are "moral?" Why are they "moral?"

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I see the religions that promote knowledge and wisdom as religions that free man from our social controllers and the control institutions, be they religious or political that control us. Gnostic Christians put themselves above those social controllers the way Jesus taught we should so as to be completely free of their influence. Free thinking is the mandate of a Gnostic Christian. Not to the point of anarchy or anything like that, but to the point of picking and choosing the best laws to follow regardless of the source and to attack the laws that we see as harmful and a deterrent to complete freedom of the person.

Thank you for clarifying your distinction. Also, where exactly did Jesus say, "Thou shalt picketh and chooseth the laws of Man thou feeleth are worthy to obey?" I don't recall that directive.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

LunaNik wrote:Wouldn't "deity/deities" be more appropriate here? Or are you trying to make a particular point about your god?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:6 of one, a half dozen of the other. IOW. Semantics.

Since you are the OP, it's helpful to know where you're coming from. And since this is a debate conducted solely with the written word, without facial expression or body language cues, semantics is not something to be dismissed lightly. Say what you mean.[/quote]

I always do.

Regards
DL

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:36 pm

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
LunaNik wrote:[
quote="LunaNik"]The term "supernatural religion" is redundant. And I was fortunate enough to be both raised by atheists and taught the history of religion.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:If all religions were supernaturally based, I would agree with your "redundant", but they are not.

There are a number of religions that are knowledge and wisdom based. Buddhism and my own Gnostic Christianity comes to mind.

You're mistaken. The very idea of religion is supernatural in nature. If the tenets include a deity or deities, the idea of an afterlife, or other concepts that cannot be proven with evidence, then the term "supernatural" applies. So both Buddhism and your own Gnostic Christianity are supernatural in nature. Therefore, the term "supernatural religion" is redundant.


Buddha was not a God and neither is the Gnostic Christian ideal.Therefore, the term "supernatural religion" does not apply.


LunaNik wrote:You're making a personal value judgment here, but not qualifying it to any degree. On what basis do you decree Christianity and Islam "immoral religions?" What other religions do you consider "immoral," and why?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I live in North America and only concern myself with the mainstream religions of Christianity and Islam.

I consider them immoral as they both wish to enslave their theist to God. Obey unquestioningly in Christianity and submit unquestioningly for Islam. Both have basically developed into intolerant, homophobic and misogynous religions. Both religions have grown themselves by the sword instead of good deeds.

Jesus said we would know his people by their works and deeds. That means Jesus would not recognize Christians and Muslims as his people, and neither do I. That is why I see them as immoral creeds.

So, you paint all Christians and Muslims as immoral based on the tenets of their respective faiths? Yikes.
LunaNik wrote:And which religions, in your opinion, are "moral?" Why are they "moral?"

Gnostic Bishop wrote:I see the religions that promote knowledge and wisdom as religions that free man from our social controllers and the control institutions, be they religious or political that control us. Gnostic Christians put themselves above those social controllers the way Jesus taught we should so as to be completely free of their influence. Free thinking is the mandate of a Gnostic Christian. Not to the point of anarchy or anything like that, but to the point of picking and choosing the best laws to follow regardless of the source and to attack the laws that we see as harmful and a deterrent to complete freedom of the person.

Thank you for clarifying your distinction. Also, where exactly did Jesus say, "Thou shalt picketh and chooseth the laws of Man thou feeleth are worthy to obey?" I don't recall that directive.
Gnostic Bishop wrote:Or will you let your faith hide the truth of the immorality of your God?

LunaNik wrote:Wouldn't "deity/deities" be more appropriate here? Or are you trying to make a particular point about your god?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:6 of one, a half dozen of the other. IOW. Semantics.

Since you are the OP, it's helpful to know where you're coming from. And since this is a debate conducted solely with the written word, without facial expression or body language cues, semantics is not something to be dismissed lightly. Say what you mean.


I always do.

Regards
DL[/quote]

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Re: When you reach the age of reason, will you reject supernatural religion?

Postby Gnostic Bishop » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:40 pm

LunaNik wrote:
LunaNik wrote:
So, you paint all Christians and Muslims as immoral based on the tenets of their respective faiths? Yikes.


Your other post was impossible to use to quote. so I went separate.

If a theist flies the flag of an immoral religion, how do you tell if he is not immoral?

Some of Hitler's S S were moral men, how would you tell them from the rest when they all wore the same uniform?

Put your brain instead of your mouth to that question pal.

Regards
DL


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