Not letting go

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
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Lausten
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Not letting go

Postby Lausten » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:02 pm

If you haven't followed the slow train wreck of defrocking the atheist minister Gretta Vosper, this is a great short update.
Ryan gets right to the heart of it, that the UCC is fine with giving up belief in a virgin birth, or "welcoming" whomever, but if they give up god, that's it. To which Gretta says,
It’s not God that we’re letting go of. When you use the word “god” outside of the church, people think you’re talking about a being that lives in the sky that we send prayers up to and sometimes he sends down results. In the liberal mainline Protestant denominations they haven’t taught that for 50 or 60 years. They’ve invited you to wrestle with the concept of god. Many clergy have panentheistic, metaphorical, esoteric understandings of a god that doesn’t have a way to intervene, but is there. There is not a large percentage of people who believe in a supernatural, theistic, interventionist god.

Then she talks about the "off-label" benefits of religion; ; creating community, offering love and support and care to one another, etc. and expresses dismay at how churches withhold that by creating alternative communities, but keeping them locked in the old rituals.

She notes that there may be a turning away from the liberalization of the church that has occurred over the last 50 years. The conservatives may be gaining power again.
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Re: Not letting go

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue Sep 13, 2016 9:13 pm

I must live in a pocket of retrograde old time religion? Every Protestant I meet proclaims a personal god. The tell: their eyes tend to glaze over when talking about the subject...but if you disagree, they just shake their head in amusement that you don't believe. Its about as passive aggressive and immune to challenge as I can imagine.

............. and God Bless you all.
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Re: Not letting go

Postby TJrandom » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:09 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I must live in a pocket of retrograde old time religion? Every Protestant I meet proclaims a personal god. The tell: their eyes tend to glaze over when talking about the subject...but if you disagree, they just shake their head in amusement that you don't believe. Its about as passive aggressive and immune to challenge as I can imagine.

............. and God Bless you all.


Same here - not only a personal god, but one to whom they talk - and one who answers back too. I don`t know for sure, but I believe that they think their god is an all-powerful physical being.

EDIT...Now that I have listened to the recording - very interesting. I thought that congregations, or their search committees, decided upon their pastor/minister - and that the denomination HQ could oust a particular church/congregation if it so chose, but not the pastor directly. So I find it surprising that the pastor is on the spot instead of the congregation.
Last edited by TJrandom on Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Angel
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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:34 am

I only speak.
Where the words go is not my problem.
God doesn't speak to me . I receive
knowledge. From where is anybody's
guess at this point. Yet I trust God to
breath life into me. To catch me when I
fall. To allow me to be good without getting
jealous. He frees me to be myself.
I watch religious people talk and sometimes
I think they get what they are saying but
then they say something totally the
opposite and it just leaves me wondering
what's going on in their brains.
For instance ~ an imencely over weight
preacher who owns 2 or more of so much
reading from the bible that it is against
God's laws to own 2 or more of anything .
I don't understand them.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:51 am

Angel wrote:God doesn't speak to me.
I can explain that. God doesn't exist.

Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Pictures or it didn't happen.

Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
When did God previously enslave you?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:God doesn't speak to me.
I can explain that. God doesn't exist.

That doesn't explain anything .

Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Pictures or it didn't happen.

Pictures of your naked body or your
just another whiny girl. LoL

Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
When did God previously enslave you?


When I was created. <3

I must really be bored to keep this up.
It's like when my daughter says ~ Mommy!!!
And I say ~ what? And she says ~ Mommy!!!
And I say ~ what? And this can go on forever.
LoL
To be or not to be?
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Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
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What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:24 am

Angel wrote:God doesn't speak to me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: I can explain that. God doesn't exist.
Angel wrote:That doesn't explain anything .
Yes it does. If there is no "God" he can't talk to you. Problem solved!



Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Pictures or it didn't happen.
Angel wrote: Pictures of your naked body or your just another whiny girl. LoL
So, no pictures? So your "God" doesn't breathe life into you. I already knew that. God doesn't exist.


Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote: When I was created.
Did your parents sell you off to God, did they? Did you sell your daughter to "God" as a slave, when you had her? Why does you family do that? Do they hate babies? :lol:

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:39 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:God doesn't speak to me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: I can explain that. God doesn't exist.
Angel wrote:That doesn't explain anything .
Yes it does. If there is no "God" he can't talk to you. Problem solved!


My father didn't talk to me for about
9 year ~ he still existed.


Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Pictures or it didn't happen.
Angel wrote: Pictures of your naked body or your just another whiny girl. LoL
So, no pictures? So your "God" doesn't breathe life into you. I already knew that. God doesn't exist.

That's a silly statement ~ pictures do not
breath life into anything . I can't explain it.
Half the time I catch myself not breathing
then consciously start to breath again.
Who does the breathing when I forget to?


Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote: When I was created.
Did your parents sell you off to God, did they? Did you sell your daughter to "God" as a slave, when you had her? Why does you family do that? Do they hate babies? :lol:


ROFLMFAO!!!
I don't know what my parents were.
Like knock off Hollywood androids. lol
No ~ my daughter is free from this
bs war.
I don't know what to make of that
family. Honestly. It's like watching
religious people denying they sin. Hahaha
As far as my daughter is concerned ~
the blood line stops here!
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:01 am

Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Pictures or it didn't happen.
Angel wrote: Pictures of your naked body or your just another whiny girl.
Matthew Ellard wrote: So, no pictures? So your "God" doesn't breathe life into you. I already knew that. God doesn't exist.
Angel wrote:That's a silly statement pictures do not breath life into anything
So, there is no evidence?...No God breathing life into you then? Why did you lie?


Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote: When I was created.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Did your parents sell you off to God, did they? Did you sell your daughter to "God" as a slave, when you had her? Why does you family do that? Do they hate babies? :lol:
Angel wrote: ROFLMFAO!!! I don't know what my parents were.
They sold you off into the slavery of following "God" based on nothing but religious bull-shit. This suggests they were from the Dark Ages.

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Aztexan » Wed Sep 14, 2016 3:30 am

God allows me to be the worst kind of person but since there is no god, I choose to be good.
This is a sentence. tHi5 iz a seN+3nce oN drUgs!!!

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Re: Not letting go

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Sep 14, 2016 4:29 am

And yet in their eyes, you be bad...
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Gord » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:49 am

A father was at the beach with his children when his four-year-old son ran up to him, grabbed his hand, and led him to the shore, where a seagull lay dead in the sand.

"Daddy, what happened to him?" the son asked.

"He died and went to Heaven," the dad replied.

The boy thought a moment and then said, "Did God throw him back down?"
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Re: Not letting go

Postby TJrandom » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:31 am

He was a bad bad seagull....

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Thu Sep 15, 2016 12:00 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:Yet I trust God to breath life into me.
Matthew Ellard wrote: Pictures or it didn't happen.
Angel wrote: Pictures of your naked body or your just another whiny girl.
Matthew Ellard wrote: So, no pictures? So your "God" doesn't breathe life into you. I already knew that. God doesn't exist.
Angel wrote:That's a silly statement pictures do not breath life into anything
So, there is no evidence?...No God breathing life into you then? Why did you lie?


Angel wrote:He frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote: When I was created.
Matthew Ellard wrote:Did your parents sell you off to God, did they? Did you sell your daughter to "God" as a slave, when you had her? Why does you family do that? Do they hate babies? :lol:
Angel wrote: ROFLMFAO!!! I don't know what my parents were.
They sold you off into the slavery of following "God" based on nothing but religious bull-shit. This suggests they were from the Dark Ages.


No. More like slavery to science & government.
They weren't religious even after they
started going to church.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:52 am

Angel wrote:God frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote:No. More like slavery to science & government.
You are permanently confused. You are claiming your "God" freed you from the slavery of science and government.

1) How exactly did God do that?

2) And, if true, why the {!#%@} are you still posting on a science forum?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:44 am

The audience?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:20 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote:God frees me to be myself.
Matthew Ellard wrote: When did God previously enslave you?
Angel wrote:No. More like slavery to science & government.
You are permanently confused. You are claiming your "God" freed you from the slavery of science and government.

1) How exactly did God do that?

2) And, if true, why the {!#%@} are you still posting on a science forum?

You're funny :lol:
I don't have to tell u anything lol
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Thu Sep 15, 2016 1:21 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:The audience?


The ambiance. :oops:
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Lausten » Thu Sep 15, 2016 3:49 pm

TJrandom wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I must live in a pocket of retrograde old time religion? Every Protestant I meet proclaims a personal god. The tell: their eyes tend to glaze over when talking about the subject...but if you disagree, they just shake their head in amusement that you don't believe. Its about as passive aggressive and immune to challenge as I can imagine.

............. and God Bless you all.


Same here - not only a personal god, but one to whom they talk - and one who answers back too. I don`t know for sure, but I believe that they think their god is an all-powerful physical being.

People have challenged Vosper's statements about the percentages of people, including pastors, who do not have the supernatural god belief. A fellow pastor in the UCC went so far as to take a poll. It's rather terribly worded, a sociology student would pick it apart, then he used the one question that came out at the lowest percentage to make a headline. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it is hard to design a poll that really teases out beliefs.

Same of polling the people on this forum. I would think that people who have had bad experiences with religious people would be attracted to a forum like this. That, and people like Angel who just like attention. Not only that, I don't find progressive Christians out there debating much, or on Sunday morning TV, so the volume skews the actual numbers.

That's why I'm so interested in stories like this. They bring all that to the forefront. You don't have to read much by Gretta to know she is a nice person, someone more than capable of running an organization that provides support to a community. So the question gets turned to where it should, what are churches for? If they are here to prepare for the second coming, they're either done with that, since everyone has the message now, or they are wrong about it. If they are here to care for people, visit them in prisons, feed them when they are hungry, then let's get on with that. If there is something in the middle, where you can do those things for whatever reason you want to believe, then let's figure that out.
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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:35 pm

I need no attention or tending to.
I only & justly present truths that
people cannot deny. Sure I get things
mixed up sometimes ~ that's my fault.
Would you rather I was totally cut and dry
do as to have no conversation what so ever?
Just that true facts?
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Sep 17, 2016 4:40 am

Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum.

Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone?
:D

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:35 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum.

Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone?
:D


Please show all my lies. You pretty little
liar. You are but a squeaky wheel getting
greased. Eventually you will be dumped .
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Lausten » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:02 pm

Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum.

Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone?
:D


Please show all my lies. You pretty little
liar. You are but a squeaky wheel getting
greased. Eventually you will be dumped .

Click on the username "Angel", wherever you see it highlighted in blue. Click on "Show all user's posts". There's your list of lies.
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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:07 pm

Lausten wrote:
Angel wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum.

Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone?
:D


Please show all my lies. You pretty little
liar. You are but a squeaky wheel getting
greased. Eventually you will be dumped .

Click on the username "Angel", wherever you see it highlighted in blue. Click on "Show all user's posts". There's your list of lies.


Try again.
Good Luck.
You have the gold~ you pave the way. lol
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:38 am

Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
Matthew Ellard wrote: You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum. Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone? :D
Angel wrote:Please show all my lies..

1) You deny that the Bible is from the middle east.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219

2) You claim to only post the truth ( like Gorgeous, the other religious troll. )
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p536220

3) You claimed God, who made man in his own image Genesis 1:27 enslaved you at birth
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p535769

4) You deny that modern humans evolved in Africa
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219

5) You claimed that plants and animals existed at the time of the big bang 14 billion years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536049


You are simply another religious troll, trolling a science forum because you are lonely and don't get attention on racist Christian forums.
KKK-Christian-Prayer-Meeting.jpg
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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:24 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Angel wrote: I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny.
Matthew Ellard wrote: You have been posting absolute lies and falsehoods in almost every thread, as you troll your way through the forum. Would you like to see the list of your lies, from the last week alone? :D
Angel wrote:Please show all my lies..

1) You deny that the Bible is from the middle east.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219

I never posted that. I posted that my
God is not from the Middle East .

2) You claim to only post the truth ( like Gorgeous, the other religious troll. )
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p536220

I make no claims on here .
i could be lying and not know it.
I stand for the truth. You seem to
do little more than jerk off in people's
faces when they don't agree with you.

3) You claimed God, who made man in his own image Genesis 1:27 enslaved you at birth
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p535769

Again ~ no claims.
So what if I choose to word thing that
way?

4) You deny that modern humans evolved in Africa
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219

I deny all modern humans came from
some monkey in Africa. I think you
might be one of them though. hahaha

5) You claimed that plants and animals existed at the time of the big bang 14 billion years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536049

No claims. I justly do not follow what
you follow.

You are simply another religious troll, trolling a science forum because you are lonely and don't get attention on racist Christian forums.
KKK-Christian-Prayer-Meeting.jpg


I don't go on other forums. I only need
come here as I go to the top site for
info' yet all I get is a hitler wannabe trying
to force me to be like him/her? .
Just another useless bro you are.

Do you dance with your feet as well as you
wag your finger?
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Lausten » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:47 pm

Angel wrote:I don't go on other forums. I only need
come here as I go to the top site for
info' yet all I get is a hitler wannabe trying
to force me to be like him/her? .
Just another useless bro you are.

Do you dance with your feet as well as you
wag your finger?

What Matt has been explaining to you is the things that you should have learned in science class in public school. The Nazi party taught people that you could measure someone's head and determine if they were a member of the master race. Our schools now teach that "race" is not a scientific term, that it is not just a philosophy that we are all created equal. And there is no requirement from the government that you believe it. You just need to remember it long enough to pass the test and get your High School diploma. You can do whatever you want with the information after that. Of course, you will meet people who are exercising that exact same freedom everyday. It's a marketplace of ideas, something you are you really struggling with.
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Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:15 pm

Lausten wrote:
Angel wrote:I don't go on other forums. I only need
come here as I go to the top site for
info' yet all I get is a hitler wannabe trying
to force me to be like him/her? .
Just another useless bro you are.

Do you dance with your feet as well as you
wag your finger?

What Matt has been explaining to you is the things that you should have learned in science class in public school. The Nazi party taught people that you could measure someone's head and determine if they were a member of the master race. Our schools now teach that "race" is not a scientific term, that it is not just a philosophy that we are all created equal. And there is no requirement from the government that you believe it. You just need to remember it long enough to pass the test and get your High School diploma. You can do whatever you want with the information after that. Of course, you will meet people who are exercising that exact same freedom everyday. It's a marketplace of ideas, something you are you really struggling with.


Is that what Mat is saying?
Hmm ~ sounds like a waste of life.
That's what you accept from your
gov' ? Why? Do you enjoy being
dominated by a stupid gov' ?
Some win , some loose ~ who the hell
cares ~ so act the politicians. As long as
the politician in charge gets what s/he
wants. You don't really matter.
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

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Re: Not letting go

Postby Lausten » Tue Sep 20, 2016 4:07 pm

Angel wrote:Is that what Mat is saying?
Hmm ~ sounds like a waste of life.
That's what you accept from your
gov' ? Why? Do you enjoy being
dominated by a stupid gov' ?
Some win , some loose ~ who the hell
cares ~ so act the politicians. As long as
the politician in charge gets what s/he
wants. You don't really matter.

I described the exact opposite of a government that dominates. I described a system that is line with centuries of brilliant minds, curious minds, discovering how the universe works and passing it on to future generations. It's a system that cares very much about the individual and their potential contribution. You live in a world of fear, where doctors cut people throats. Apparently this keeps you shut in and afraid to leave your computer, given how much you post here.
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Angel
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Posts: 1524
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:23 pm
Custom Title: LOVE

Re: Not letting go

Postby Angel » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:17 am

Lausten wrote:
Angel wrote:Is that what Mat is saying?
Hmm ~ sounds like a waste of life.
That's what you accept from your
gov' ? Why? Do you enjoy being
dominated by a stupid gov' ?
Some win , some loose ~ who the hell
cares ~ so act the politicians. As long as
the politician in charge gets what s/he
wants. You don't really matter.

I described the exact opposite of a government that dominates. I described a system that is line with centuries of brilliant minds, curious minds, discovering how the universe works and passing it on to future generations. It's a system that cares very much about the individual and their potential contribution. You live in a world of fear, where doctors cut people throats. Apparently this keeps you shut in and afraid to leave your computer, given how much you post here.


I don't live in fear.
It was my brother who said he had
his thyroid removed.
I'm on here for about an hour a day
during the week. You call that excessive then
so be it. LoL
To be or not to be?
To believe or
Not to believe?
To be live or
Not to be live?
To exist or
Not to exist?
What was the question?

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26383
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:49 am

Religious Lies posted by Angel

Matthew Ellard wrote:1) You deny that the Bible is from the middle east.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219
Angel wrote:I posted that my God is not from the Middle East
You are a Christian and your God is YAWEH from the middle East. That's why you quote YAWEH from the Holy Bible. Do you deny being a Christian?


Matthew Ellard wrote:2) You claim to only post the truth ( like Gorgeous, the other religious troll. )
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p536220
Angel wrote:I make no claims on here .
Angel, two days ago wrote:I only & justly present truths that people cannot deny
Why do you lie so much?


Matthew Ellard wrote:3) You claimed God, who made man in his own image Genesis 1:27 enslaved you at birth
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27314&p=536698#p535769
Angel wrote:Again ~ no claims.
Angel, two days ago wrote:He (God) frees me to be myself.
You are lying again.


Matthew Ellard wrote:4) You deny that modern humans evolved in Africa
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536219
Angel wrote: I deny all modern humans came from some monkey in Africa.
Where do you claim modern humans came from, if not from Africa? What is your supporting evidence? The Bible?


Matthew Ellard wrote:5) You claimed that plants and animals existed at the time of the big bang 14 billion years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=27012&start=440#p536049
Angel wrote: No claims. I justly do not follow what you follow.
...and what exact religious belief do you follow? Do you claim the Earth is only 6,000 years old, Yes or No?

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26383
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Not letting go

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Sep 21, 2016 1:53 am

Angel wrote: Is that what Mat is saying? Hmm ~ sounds like a waste of life.
You are a religious troll, making religious claims on a skeptic forum that debates religious claims.

Are you so stupid, that you post on our skeptic forum and then state skeptics are wasting their time responding to your religious claims?

Go away.


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