"A terrible beauty is born…"

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
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"A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:52 am

Yes! This Sunday marks the 100th Anniversary of the Easter Uprising that brought about the eventual establishment of the Irish Republic,
Wm. Butler Yeats, although conflicted (as a Protestant) by the violence of feeling and the acts that resulted from them as well as by the dramatic severing to come, wrote this justly famous, in the annals of dissent, poem:



"I HAVE met them at close of day
Coming with vivid faces
From counter or desk among grey
Eighteenth-century houses.
I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn:
All changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

That woman's days were spent
In ignorant good-will,
Her nights in argument
Until her voice grew shrill.
What voice more sweet than hers
When, young and beautiful,
She rode to harriers?
This man had kept a school
And rode our winged horse;
This other his helper and friend
Was coming into his force;
He might have won fame in the end,
So sensitive his nature seemed,
So daring and sweet his thought.
This other man I had dreamed
A drunken, vainglorious lout.
He had done most bitter wrong
To some who are near my heart,
Yet I number him in the song;
He, too, has resigned his part
In the casual comedy;
He, too, has been changed in his turn,
Transformed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born.

Hearts with one purpose alone
Through summer and winter seem
Enchanted to a stone
To trouble the living stream.
The horse that comes from the road.
The rider, the birds that range
From cloud to tumbling cloud,
Minute by minute they change;
A shadow of cloud on the stream
Changes minute by minute;
A horse-hoof slides on the brim,
And a horse plashes within it;
The long-legged moor-hens dive,
And hens to moor-cocks call;
Minute by minute they live:
The stone's in the midst of all.

Too long a sacrifice
Can make a stone of the heart.
O when may it suffice?
That is Heaven's part, our part
To murmur name upon name,
As a mother names her child
When sleep at last has come
On limbs that had run wild.
What is it but nightfall?
No, no, not night but death;
Was it needless death after all?
For England may keep faith
For all that is done and said.
We know their dream; enough
To know they dreamed and are dead;
And what if excess of love
Bewildered them till they died?
I write it out in a verse -
MacDonagh and MacBride
And Connolly and Pearse
Now and in time to be,
Wherever green is worn,
Are changed, changed utterly:
A terrible beauty is born. "


EASTER 1916, William Butler Yeats.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:09 am

March 25th, 1811 – Percy Bysshe Shelley is expelled from the University of Oxford for publishing the pamphlet The Necessity of Atheism.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20248/20 ... 0248-h.htm
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby nmblum88 » Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:18 am

Gord wrote:March 25th, 1811 – Percy Bysshe Shelley is expelled from the University of Oxford for publishing the pamphlet The Necessity of Atheism.

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20248/20 ... 0248-h.htm


That too.
Ddid your father read it to you over dinner, too?
As mine did?

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Sat Mar 26, 2016 5:10 am

My father didn't allow books at the dinner table. Nor did he ever read to me. Even though he was a teacher, I can't recall him ever teaching me much of anything. He's always been a bit of an odd duck, in my eyes.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Flash » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:25 am

We had one book at the dinner table...it was cleverly placed under the shorter leg to prevent wobbling and shpilling...schlepping...now I got it, spilling of the soup.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:51 am

Gord wrote:My father didn't allow books at the dinner table.
In my family, at the dinner table, mum read as we ate and we were not allowed to talk. I had to sit at the end of the table as I was left handed and somehow the entire world would fall apart if a left handed person sat next to a right handed person at dinner. Dad was also left handed, but this important rule did not apply to him. It made absolutely no sense.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:07 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: It made absolutely no sense.

Its all about custom and power.... just as it takes place in your house today.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby nmblum88 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:15 pm

Flash wrote:We had one book at the dinner table…it was cleverly placed under the shorter leg to prevent wobbling and shpilling...schlepping...now I got it, spilling of the soup.

Somewhat boastful.
Because I do sense the presence of some sort of utensil (a ladle, maybe? a dish?) in your memoir: obviously the server did not just dump the soup on the table for you to lick up.
Not to mention that you had soup at all..
So close, but no cigar.
Don't forget that I come from a generation that devotes at least an hour in any get-together to play "You think YOU were poor!!"
My favorite example and best remembered was the response of one friend to another who was describing the feel of her family's sheets, presumably made of burlap: "You had SHEETS, Lady Astor???!!

My sister used to say that the standard for entering that fray should have been that if you had tasted a tangerine in childhood you were disqualified from play: "Please, don't even TRY!!"
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P.S. We often used book-technology to make furniture more stable:But we were enjoined from using anything serious, or my father would replace it with a Nancy Drew mystery, or "Anne of Green Gables.."
N.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:19 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gord wrote:My father didn't allow books at the dinner table.
In my family, at the dinner table, mum read as we ate and we were not allowed to talk. I had to sit at the end of the table as I was left handed and somehow the entire world would fall apart if a left handed person sat next to a right handed person at dinner. Dad was also left handed, but this important rule did not apply to him. It made absolutely no sense.

Was it about elbows touching? We were required to use a knife and a fork even when the food didn't need to be cut, like with macaroni or stew, and our elbows were constantly connecting. It caused much spillage and occasional cries of pain. Father sat at one end ("head of the household"), mother sat at the other (I guess that made her the foot of the household?), and three kids were crammed in along each side*. Whoever sat in the middle of one side ran the risk of being pummelled to smithereens, depending on who they were stuck between.




*rectangular table rather than, say, octangular; there were only six of us, not 18
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby nmblum88 » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:40 pm

Gord wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gord wrote:My father didn't allow books at the dinner table.
In my family, at the dinner table, mum read as we ate and we were not allowed to talk. I had to sit at the end of the table as I was left handed and somehow the entire world would fall apart if a left handed person sat next to a right handed person at dinner. Dad was also left handed, but this important rule did not apply to him. It made absolutely no sense.

Was it about elbows touching? We were required to use a knife and a fork even when the food didn't need to be cut, like with macaroni or stew, and our elbows were constantly connecting. It caused much spillage and occasional cries of pain. Father sat at one end ("head of the household"), mother sat at the other (I guess that made her the foot of the household?), and three kids were crammed in along each side*. Whoever sat in the middle of one side ran the risk of being pummelled to smithereens, depending on who they were stuck between.




*rectangular table rather than, say, octangular; there were only six of us, not 18


Both terrible tales, intimations of even more serious family disfunction.
Commiserations.
But there is this: both of you survived to go on to enjoy admirable lives, even enviable ones…. . even, one could say as leaders of men!!
Fulfilling the promise of the adage "Living Well and Fully is the Best Revenge."

NMB

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Sun Mar 27, 2016 5:58 pm

I've never met a family that didn't seem dysfunctional in some way.

I'm less a leader and more a saboteur, in that I may lead men halfway across a bridge, but then I'll order them to chop the bridge to pieces from the top down.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:10 am

Gord wrote: Was it about elbows touching?
Absolutely, although at no point in time did our elbows ever touch to start this bizarre ritual.

The next evolved ritual was the "primate hierarchy" passing around of the morning newspaper. My parents also bought children's morning newspapers and magazines. My favourite was "Tell Me Why?" magazine. Dad would finish the newspaper and give it to my sister. She would pass me "Tell Me Why?" I'd hand my "Valiant" cartoon magazine to my younger brother who would pass his cartoon book to dad, who would then flick to the back to read his favourite cartoon.
Tell me why.jpg


Gord wrote: We were required to use a knife and a fork even when the food didn't need to be cut, like with macaroni or stew, and our elbows were constantly connecting.
This is terrible news. A gentleman keeps his elbows pointing down when using a knife and fork. You probably tilted the soup bowl towards you when finishing your soup, you barbarian! :D
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 28, 2016 12:19 am

Gord wrote:I've never met a family that didn't seem dysfunctional in some way.
Absolutely true. They may be smart, dumb, rich or poor but human families always do their own unique weird things. I love finding these things out. The stranger the better. :D

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:54 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gord wrote: We were required to use a knife and a fork even when the food didn't need to be cut, like with macaroni or stew, and our elbows were constantly connecting.
This is terrible news. A gentleman keeps his elbows pointing down when using a knife and fork. You probably tilted the soup bowl towards you when finishing your soup, you barbarian! :D

We weren't allowed to point our elbows down, because that invariably led to a jab to the ribs for someone sitting next to us. Keep 'em above the table where mother can see them!

And we weren't allowed to tilt the soup bowls in any direction. And slurping vas strictly verboten!! You must dip ze spoon avay from you face, scoop zuch a zmall amount as to be meaningless, zen bring it up to ze lips unt pour it into ze mouth like a not-monkey!

Also, store-bought sliced bread was a disaster for souptimes, as we were each allowed only one slice of bread* with our soup, and the pre-sliced stuff was about half as thick as our mother would cut the homemade bread.



*or four measly stinkin' crackers
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Aztexan » Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:50 am

Y'all ate off of tables?!?
This is a sentence. tHi5 iz a seN+3nce oN drUgs!!!

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Mon Mar 28, 2016 6:56 am

Not unless the plates were dirty.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:36 am

My favourite story ever about learning table manners is from David Niven's autobiography, The Moons a Balloon. David Niven is a young junior officer, drafted in the war to an old style regiment and is starving. A senior officer decides the junior officers must be trained for the officer's mess and and invites them to learn how to eat properly at the table. When they arrive, he makes them stand in line, while he eats a three course meal using all the correct cutlery, wine glasses and so on. :D

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Flash » Tue Mar 29, 2016 12:32 am

nmblum88 wrote:
Don't forget that I come from a generation that devotes at least an hour in any get-together to play "You think YOU were poor!!"
My favorite example and best remembered was the response of one friend to another who was describing the feel of her family's sheets, presumably made of burlap: "You had SHEETS, Lady Astor???!!


We weren't wealthy, however we could afford soup at dinner unlike Frank McCourt's family. In Angela's Ashes he confesses that he didn't know what soup was until he stole some money from the religious nut who sent him on all kinds of crazy errands. They only had fried bread and tea for dinner.

And I knew a guy in the primary school who had to sleep on a mattress made out of burlap and filled with straw...with no sheets which is not as bad as the story I heard from an occasional drinking partner who during his childhood in Northern Manitoba slept on a bed made of split log (no kidding) also with no sheets, just blankets. I bet he didn't know what soup was for a long time as well.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:01 am

Soup is when your bit of bread falls into your cup of water, while it's raining.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:15 am

Barbarians all... bowls are for slurping soup. Everybody knows that! No sound is a slap to the face of the cook.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:19 am

TJrandom wrote:Barbarians all... bowls are for slurping soup. Everybody knows that! No sound is a slap to the face of the cook.

There was a time they also wanted to hear more sounds after the meal was absorbed... :-P
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Gord » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:25 am

When I was old enough to make my own soup, I drank it right out of the pot -- much to the disgust and/or consternation of my parents, who declared they could never take me anywhere ever again for fear I might somehow get my hands on a pot of soup while other people were there to watch and listen.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:26 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
TJrandom wrote:Barbarians all... bowls are for slurping soup. Everybody knows that! No sound is a slap to the face of the cook.

There was a time they also wanted to hear more sounds after the meal was absorbed... :-P


Ah yes - the appreciative belch.

Just a few years ago - in rural street side open cafes in Vietnam - the sound of the chairs scooting back following the meal was the signal to the street-dogs to come in to feed on the table scraps which had purposely been dropped during the meal. This way, dog fed dog, and the best fed was likely to be tomorrows feast.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:29 am

In dirt-floor rural Japan, any soup that was still in the bowl of the partaker was simply poured back into the central pot for the next meal.

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:53 am

TJrandom wrote:In dirt-floor rural Japan, any soup that was still in the bowl of the partaker was simply poured back into the central pot for the next meal.
It was from watching The Seven Samurai, that I discovered peasant Japanese ate grain, not rice. Rice was a luxury. Before that, I stupidly assumed all Japanese always ate rice. (It's the little errors that we always let slip into our heads) :D

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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Flash » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:00 am

TJrandom wrote:
In dirt-floor rural Japan, any soup that was still in the bowl of the partaker was simply poured back into the central pot for the next meal.

They still do that in the restaurants in Quebec. :mrgreen:
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby Flash » Tue Mar 29, 2016 6:08 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
It was from watching The Seven Samurai, that I discovered peasant Japanese ate grain, not rice. Rice was a luxury. Before that, I stupidly assumed all Japanese always ate rice. (It's the little errors that we always let slip into our heads) :D


I always wanted to get the real Soba noodles which of course, are made from buckwheat. Unfortunately, can't find them anywhere in Ontario. BTW, in Eastern Europe buckwheat is very popular but sadly not made into flower and noodles. It's eaten like rice with meat and also put into pierogies.
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Re: "A terrible beauty is born…"

Postby TJrandom » Tue Mar 29, 2016 7:55 am

Flash wrote:TJrandom wrote:
In dirt-floor rural Japan, any soup that was still in the bowl of the partaker was simply poured back into the central pot for the next meal.

They still do that in the restaurants in Quebec. :mrgreen:


We had a rather famous one - and high end too, recycling leftover food. A kitchen helper eventually spilled the beans, and the place closed down.


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