Methamphetamine America

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:32 am

You mean the shootout?

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Major Malfunction » Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:08 pm

Is this relevant?
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:59 pm

I am numb. So numb I'm pronounsing the b. I actually got tearful rewaching it today.

They seem to hav intentionally dropped the humor for theze last 8. Or hav I forgotten sumthing?

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:17 am

Finally got to see that, MM. (About 7 minits, anyway, befor Firefox crashed, and skipppy all the the way.) Not bad! :D

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby angawawa » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:42 pm

SPOILERS

So I couldn't make myself watch when BB came back on. I was too sad to see it go, and I wanted to stretch the time out. Finally last week it got to be too much, trying to avoid spoilers online was a real nuisance. So I watched one a day, more was just too much for me to handle. Finally watched Ozymandias last night. Wow. Just, wow. I barely have words. It's nothing like I thought it would be, but then I couldn't really imagine what would happen. I sat on my bed, my entire body scrunched up in a vibrating ball and watched the events unfold with a horror I have rarely felt in my life. When Todd chained Jesse in the lab, tears of hopelessness ran down my face. When Walt called Sky after taking Holly, screaming at her and calling her a bitch, it was like watching a horrible car wreck. Marie's face when Walt said she'd never see Hank again was so terrible. At the end, I just sat there for maybe five minutes, unable to move. I have never had an experience like this with any tv show or movie. Sure there's been some great stuff like the end of Babylon 5 and the series finale of Angel, but never anything so gut-wrenching. The closest any entertainment has come to this kind of intense emotion was the scene in the first Jurassic Park when they finally see the dinosaurs. I was so emotionally washed out I had to watch Pulp Fiction just to settle down. What will happen at the end?
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:54 pm

angawawa wrote:SPOILERS

I was so emotionally washed out I had to watch Pulp Fiction just to settle down.

Ang... that may be one of the greatest lines ever, on the relationship of humans to our arts.... our dependency of them for tempering as well as exciting emotions.
And the complications of our sentiments, the myriad ways in which we are so different, and so much the same.
Have I ever told you that I love your way with words?
If not... well, just an oversight.
I'm telling you now.

Norma
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:40 pm

It wuz the 2nd time I woct that I realized Walt knew the cops were there, so he wuz getting Skyler off the hook. The 1st time I didnt know, kuz I wuz thinking he'd really turned completely into Hiezenberg wen she slashed hiz hand. That plus him telling Jesse about Jane.

A harrowing experiens.

Funny & true line in Colbert's opening quips : "85% uv meth uzerz dont get addicted. Not so for Breaking Bad viewerz!"

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby angawawa » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:50 pm

Holy crap, JO, do you really think so? I will be watching it again (I've seen the rest of it through four times) and I'm sure I will catch more stuff. Any hopeful comments about why Walt told Jesse about Jane? That was just wicked, and I felt my heart turn.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:01 am

It seemz to me he truly hated Jesse at that time
Spoiler:
for hiz part in Hank's deth
. I wonder if they will repeat the pattern - Walt & Jesse fite, then make up.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby angawawa » Sat Sep 21, 2013 3:10 pm

Yeah that's just what I thought. As usual Walt doesn't come to terms with his own complicity. I have known lots of meth heads and they act the same way. But I do think Walt will try to rescue Jesse.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:32 am

Vince Gilligan iz evil. EEEEEEEEEEEEEVVVIIIIILLLLL!!!!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 5:35 am

Also, iz that him with the welding torch in the Taco Bell Dorito shell commercial? You'll notice that Cletus iz wun uv the firemen at the beginning.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sat Sep 28, 2013 3:59 pm

AMC advertized their programming az 'nonstop Breaking Bad' frum wenzday till finishing with Talking Bad after the final episode sunday nite. They lied! They showed wun uv their reality showz last nite and now they hav an old Clint Eastwood movie going!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:24 am

My dad died sumtime Sunday afternoon.

Herez hiz video agen: BRAKING BaDR

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby scrmbldggs » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:48 pm

JO 753 wrote:My dad died sumtime Sunday afternoon.

Herez hiz video agen: BRAKING BaDR

I'm sorry to hear that, JO.
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 4:53 pm

JO 753 wrote:My dad died sumtime Sunday afternoon.

Herez hiz video agen: BRAKING BaDR


Regrets on the death of your Dad, JO.
Losing a parent, no matter what, is formidable..
Go easy on yourself.

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:24 pm

Thanks, scrmbld & Norma. He'z been declining mentally for quite a wile and basicly disfunctional for the last few months, so therez no shock effect. RIP.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2zpA5dvUl4

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:57 pm

I wuz hoping for 1 more sene. Like alot uv moviez theze dayz where they put a little joke or sumthing after the credits. I wanted to see Sol relaxing on the beach in Belize. He obviously wont be a shoe salezman in Nebraska sinse he made millionz frum hiz cut uv Walt & Jessez earningz.

A few thingz I imajind mite happen that didnt:

Hank woud turn out to be dirty. Hiz place alwayz looked a little too rich. Along the same linez, the DEA hed honcho after Hank became ASAC woud turn out to be working for Fring or the cartel.

Flynn & hiz frend Louis woud either get caught slinging the blue or end up in the hospital frum uzing it. Then it woud turn out that Jesse wuz supplying them az revenj kuz he knew Walt let Jane die.

We woud meet Walt's mom and she woud be played by Brian Cranston or hiz real life mom. She woud ask Walt for sum uv hiz primo skontay.

Fringz kidz woud try to get Walt.

Like everybody, I wuz expecting Walt to blow away Elliot & Grechen. We woud see a flashback uv wut happend all thoze yirz ago that broke them up.

Bajr & Skinny Pete woud rescue Jesse & theyd also get all the money.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:52 pm

JO 753 wrote:I wuz hoping for 1 more sene. Like alot uv moviez theze dayz where they put a little joke or sumthing after the credits. I wanted to see Sol relaxing on the beach in Belize. He obviously wont be a shoe salezman in Nebraska sinse he made millionz frum hiz cut uv Walt & Jessez earningz.

A few thingz I imajind mite happen that didnt:

Hank woud turn out to be dirty. Hiz place alwayz looked a little too rich. Along the same linez, the DEA hed honcho after Hank became ASAC woud turn out to be working for Fring or the cartel.

Flynn & hiz frend Louis woud either get caught slinging the blue or end up in the hospital frum uzing it. Then it woud turn out that Jesse wuz supplying them az revenj kuz he knew Walt let Jane die.

We woud meet Walt's mom and she woud be played by Brian Cranston or hiz real life mom. She woud ask Walt for sum uv hiz primo skontay.

Fringz kidz woud try to get Walt.

Like everybody, I wuz expecting Walt to blow away Elliot & Grechen. We woud see a flashback uv wut happend all thoze yirz ago that broke them up.

Bajr & Skinny Pete woud rescue Jesse & theyd also get all the money.



It could STILL be happening, but off screen, perhaps even on another planet.
(I still think Walt and Skylar (who I thought WAS evil.. and not the Saint sitting in the interviewees chair) were going to turn out to be Lord and Lady Macbeth, she the dominant figure, tied to each other by a terrible love, an unbreakable bond. No such luck.)
But you are suggesting another 80 episodes, JO... so not for me.
I'm ready to move on.... although if people go back to promoting or even talking about something as silly, as anachronistic as "Downton Abbey," I'm sure I'll be sorry I said that.
But Vince Gilligan is going on to do a drama for one of the Networks, title, 'Battle Creek," the city in Michigan that Rice Crisoies come from (an unpromising concept.. Battle Creek doesn't have Albuquerque's stunning beauty and dry cereal can't really compare with meth as a hook to hang a story on) but he's a smart guy, and a better than good writer... so wait and see, wait and see.
I sort of agree with you that not all the ends were successfully tied up, but for perfection I guess you do have write your own scenarios...
At any rate, we have to be satisfied that "Breaking Bad" did prove that by having good writers, with at least some sense of what constitutes moral considerations, and terrific actors - the best I think ever assembled (and television has produced some amazing actors) we can have programming worth attracting huge audiences...
And starting some much needed discussions on what it means to be human, flawed, tempted, wanting to be good, and not entirely repelled by the possible fruits of being bad.

Norma
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:37 am

Thats the limiting factor if you dont want to do an open ended seriez. It must hav been pure torture sumtimez desiding wich avenuez not to pursue. BUT! there are the webisodez!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:41 am


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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 1:51 am

nmblum wrote:It could STILL be happening, but off screen, perhaps even on another planet.


Funny you shoud mention that. Seemz more sifi-ish than your usual style. Another possible ending sene that came to mind 2 seeznz ago wuz that after Walt diez , theyd zoom out, Contact style, and zoom back in on a far away alternate Earth in wich Walt had simply continued being a skool teacher & faded away with the cansr. It woud be Skyler & Walt jr. sitting at their dinner table with the new dad, Ted Beneke. Theyd mention Walt in passing, with no particular care, in reference to sumthing else.

The message woud be similar to Walts 'I did it for me' speech. Its your life - take it az far az you can, break all the rulez you need to, just dont be forgotten.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:17 am

JO 753 wrote:Its your life - take it az far az you can, break all the rulez you need to, just dont be forgotten.

Why not?
Hi, Io the lurker.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:00 pm

Good question. I hav no simple ansr.

It just seemz like defeat, nihilizm, waste and all kindz uv negative to me. Why do anything? There are more than 7,000,000,000 humanz on the planet. Most uv them are just duplicates. My perspectiv iz that if you arent appreciably different than 1,000 otherz, why exist at all? Its just a waste uv resorsez. Fate can flatten you under a rock; no problem, dude! Nothing special happening with that wun. I got 999 more, so no loss. Maybe we dont need so many, so here, lets squash 200 more.

You get maybe 80 yirz to make your mark on the world. If sumthing in your life iznt worth reading about, did you fail? Coud your entire existens be erased with no advers effect to civilization? How do we know thiz duznt happen all the time? OBLIVERATION!

Another perspectiv iz that your only responsubility iz to try to be happy. DO for yourself. Fate and the fickle massez may take an interest, but its beyond your power and a waste uv your limited time to try to influence the world. So, if the standard issue lifestyle iz good enuf to keep you happy, why bother trying to go beyond it? Messing with the formula will probably lead to strife & sorrow. Sit in your cubicle. Keep your hed down. Follow the herd. Dont rock the boat. Make sure your featherz match the flock you are in.

Walts little speech to Skyler sez alot.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:46 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Its your life - take it az far az you can, break all the rulez you need to, just dont be forgotten.

Why not?


Because.
Because humans hate the thought of our lives having no meaning whatever..
(The terror of it accounts, in great measure, for the appeal of religion... it's warding of not only of the inevitability of life, but making us feel more important than we are - we microbes on a lettuce leaf. )
And the idea that we might have been, born , lived , died, struggling against the slings and arrows, in total anonymity, only to disappear from the world without a trace, leaving no signs that we were ever here at all, is somehow unbearable.
It accounts for the passion of men to have sons... the "carrying on of the name," assumes a great importance.
It's what accounts for the grand funerals, for the rich of course, but the poor will bankrupt themselves to put on a show.
It's the meaning for not only the grand mausoleums in our cemeteries but the simplest headstones that assure us of "gone but not forgotten."

And to hear "he was buried in an unmarked grave," ...is universally a trigger for sadness, if not horror on the part of survivors.


It's why the sign on the famous building doesn't simply say "30 Fifth Avenue," but 30 ROCKEFELLER..PLAZA."
And the Guggenheim Museum is known as "the Guggenheim,"
Why toilets in hospitals and nursing homes have plaques over them that read "Gift of Mr and Mrs, Schwartz."

"When this you see, remember me!!"



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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:33 pm


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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:15 pm

JO 753 wrote:Say my name


Yes!
And the moral of "Breaking Bad," is that despite the clear image of Walter White, shabby, grizzled, poor and debated, at the end lying dead on a cold hard ground, after all that shturm und drang, all that terror, fear, alienation, the dead bodies, the loss of family, not to mention the shambles of so many lives, so much property .... is that while lying there he looked no different from, could have been , a clerk in the local Wal-mart.

Except that HE didn't think so... and wouldn't accept that version if you could tell it to him.
"I did it for me..." includes that "I'm now in the books... a bad ass who wont' easily be forgotten by anyone who has crossed my path.."
No one remembers that bank teller in Northfield,Missouri, but Jesse James lives forever.
Jesse knew that.

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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Major Malfunction » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:46 pm

I maybe would've cranked up the gauge to 'Explode'.
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Major Malfunction » Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:07 am

Saw a BBC doco. It really just skims the surface, but I couldn't help but feel sad. The vast majority of users are just messed-up people looking for a little relief from their emotional and existential pain.

Surely there's something else that can be done for them, rather than ostracising and criminalising them? I mean, that's just exacerbating their original problem. The lack of humanity they feel. It's just a downwards spiral into destruction.

Imagine if all the resources used to combat these unfortunate people were instead used to help them?

Imagine if we all showed a little humanity?
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Daedalus » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:33 am

Major Malfunction wrote:Saw a BBC doco. It really just skims the surface, but I couldn't help but feel sad. The vast majority of users are just messed-up people looking for a little relief from their emotional and existential pain.

Surely there's something else that can be done for them, rather than ostracising and criminalising them? I mean, that's just exacerbating their original problem. The lack of humanity they feel. It's just a downwards spiral into destruction.

Imagine if all the resources used to combat these unfortunate people were instead used to help them?

Imagine if we all showed a little humanity?


It would be nice if we could help these people, and certainly we shouldn't be hunting them like animals.

Meth in particular however, does present a handful of issues.

For one, cooking meth is extremely dangerous and presents both a fire, explosive, and chemical hazard to the people around it or anyone who moves into the home later. The process also produces a large amount of really noxious waste which is typically dumped into sewers, the woods, etc... which is a real problem.

For another, meth produces a constellation of behavior that makes its users frankly dangerous... I'm not sure you can sit by while someone is tweaking and thinking you're out to kill them.

Heroin, LSD, MDMA, Marijuana, etc... all have problems associated with them, but you generally don't have to worry about the person on them hurting the people around them. Cocaine carries some of that risk, but not to the same degree as meth.

How do you decriminalize a drug that takes such a terrible toll not only on the user, but the bystander?

Finally, there are really good treatment options for most drugs out there, but people who have an established meth addiction appear to be very difficult to help. It's hard to sift through the DEA hype, but there is good medical research showing serious permanent changes to the brain in long-term users that makes it very difficult to walk away from the drug. The success rate in treatment of meth addiction is, IIRC, 7%... by far the lowest of any drug.

I'm for decriminalizing the vast majority of drugs, and there should be a better way to deal with meth production and use, but I don't think it's simple.
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Major Malfunction » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:29 pm

Meth seems the most harmful of all the drugs. So focus your forces on the producers, and help the victims, the addicts. With community, psych, and medical programs.

It seems the most... What is the word..? Disenfranchised. Are the most susceptible. So maybe just, I dunno, enfranchise people? Help them?

Since y'all invited them there, afterall. Y'all wouldn't like to seem like poor hosts. Would you?

As for recreational use. People that want to get high, get high. It's a natural human trait. For millions of years. Animals gorge on fermenting fruit and eat funky mushrooms on porpoise!

You can't Nazi-style eradicate that from the genome by slaughtering and imprisioning. That {!#%@} is hard-wired in all of us. Ever had a coffee, a Coke, or a cuppa tea?

Drugs, man. Drugs. That caffeine {!#%@}'ll kill ya quicker'n meth. Seriously. It's super toxic in concentrate.

So maybe, just maybe, if people could get a cheap and happy high off a drug that didn't kill them and land them in prison, with all the legal repercussions, they wouldn't need to turn to the harder stuff.

And it may even be beneficial to health. With a whole crapload of other industries.

It's a kind of reverse gateway argument.
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:46 pm

I haven't been around many people on meth, that I'm aware of. So when I stopped in the grocery store in Grand Junction, on my way to put into the river and saw a very strung out lady there, I was amazed. She was drawn and wizened, but was probably younger than I. She was pale and scabby. She looked like something out of Hollywood horror shows. The one's where they depict someone getting their soul sucked out by demons, or drained bit by bit by vampires. Not quite to zombie status, but some form of death warmed over.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Daedalus » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Major Malfunction wrote:Meth seems the most harmful of all the drugs. So focus your forces on the producers, and help the victims, the addicts. With community, psych, and medical programs.

It seems the most... What is the word..? Disenfranchised. Are the most susceptible. So maybe just, I dunno, enfranchise people? Help them?

Since y'all invited them there, afterall. Y'all wouldn't like to seem like poor hosts. Would you?

As for recreational use. People that want to get high, get high. It's a natural human trait. For millions of years. Animals gorge on fermenting fruit and eat funky mushrooms on porpoise!

You can't Nazi-style eradicate that from the genome by slaughtering and imprisioning. That {!#%@} is hard-wired in all of us. Ever had a coffee, a Coke, or a cuppa tea?

Drugs, man. Drugs. That caffeine {!#%@}'ll kill ya quicker'n meth. Seriously. It's super toxic in concentrate.

So maybe, just maybe, if people could get a cheap and happy high off a drug that didn't kill them and land them in prison, with all the legal repercussions, they wouldn't need to turn to the harder stuff.

And it may even be beneficial to health. With a whole crapload of other industries.

It's a kind of reverse gateway argument.


I agree with most of what you're saying, but meth is also uniquely tough to control because when you crack down on the large suppliers, you get more home "cooks". The imprisoning though... it's destroying our country.

We butchered our mental health system in the 80's, started a "war" on drugs, and now just throw people in prison. The result?... well among other things, shooting rampages.
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Major Malfunction » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:49 pm

I know, right? I've read the manuals.

A malevolent dictatorship slaughters its citizens. A benevolent dictatorship pacifies its citizens.

Now, if I were in command, it would be free ganja for all, baby!

And education, food, and medical.
This being was produced using the same process as other beings, and therefore, may contain traces of nuts.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:30 am

Back to more important things:

I just watched the final episode. Pricks; I think they had one more in them.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:51 am

I can tell that its cauzing you extreem mental anguish. So sue them! BeTR KoL SoL!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:20 am

JO 753 wrote:I can tell that its cauzing you extreem mental anguish. So sue them! BeTR KoL SoL!



Yeah, that's cool, I guess. But therein lies the paradox. Good sequel? Or just a lame coattail rider? Like a movie that comes out entitled, "The Dude", but with different characters because Bridges and Goodman read the script and said {!#%@} off.

My guess is that we'll have to suffer multiple imitations of the genre, until finally someone breaks the mold with a grand new idea.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:03 am

Its by Vince Gilligan, so I dont think it will suk.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:11 am

JO 753 wrote:Its by Vince Gilligan, so I dont think it will suk.



I'm with you. I'll watch it. But not sucking is far from great. Pabst Blue Ribbon doesn't suck, it's just nondescript, bland, blah....should've saved up for a good beer type of beer.

But, maybe it will be good. Like when that Master of Puppets money ran out; Ride the Lightening was alright.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:58 pm



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