Methamphetamine America

General discussion on the subject of religion, losing religion, and having no religion to lose...
nmblum88
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Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri May 18, 2012 10:49 pm

I just finished watching a collection of recorded, relatively recent, TV programs (Frontline, America Experience, Cops (YES, Cops, 8 editions of Cops ) devoted to the manufacture, the economics, and the demographics of the wide-spread and devastating presence of methamphetamines in U.S. life.
An admission: were it not for the effect of the stunning film "Winter's Bone," and my subsequent immersion, perhaps obsession with the incredible American Move Channel production of "Breaking Bad," and FX's "Justified." I would probably have passed on today's experience.
It was not pleasant, but actually anxiety provoking, although one could delude oneself into believing that as meth is both cheap and easily available, it has become a curse to the poor and the isolated and not yet a scourge of middle class life... nothing to worry about on my front porch..
But the rush of so much information (I now KNOW how to make my own meth if the occasion should arise) has also provoked more questions about American life than it answers.
For there IS something strange.. as it has always been... never has a nation had so much and enjoyed it so little..... about the American predilection, weakness, for drugs that either enhance or diminish reality... what IS it with us that we can't seem to take life straight on, while we still vociferously insist on purveying our mythologies about ourselves to others?
But meth is not directed or marketed or made ubiquitously available to the children of privilege that fueled the 60s and 70s....those emancipated by choice from the constraints of a puritan society
It is directed, and clearly with the deliberation of careful marketing, to the permanent underclass created by isolation, deindustrialization, chronic poverty, and... dare one say it? - religion,
Primitive, dogmatic, religion.
Because not only is the most religious nation in the industrialized Western world the most drug afflicted, addled, beset, by methamphetamines, but those areas of the population where religion and the power of connection with the authority of evangelical Christianity holds sway is afflicted most of all.
Yeah...that's it: religious, in fact church centered, and chronically poor... under- serviced by educational institutions, and seemingly permanently bereft of employment opportunities; that is the soil where the devastating influences of both the drug itself and the machinery for distributing it hold sway.
Would anyone care to offer an explanation of why this strange marriage of illegal drugs, population, and affinity meet, and run away with each other?

And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"
More proof that there are a thousand Americas peopled by all manner of Americans.. and that the twain meet at all is one of the "miracles" of history, political science, language and ..... yeah, religion.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sat May 19, 2012 3:01 am

Meth iz so addictive that even showz about it are addictive!

Havent seen The Wonderful Whites. Iz it az good az the blue stuff???? Whites? Like Walter White? WW! That CAN NOT be only a coincidence!!!! COME ON! HOOK ME UP ALREADY! I needz me sumthin to tide me over till BB starts up again!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Monster » Sat May 19, 2012 3:15 am

nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"

Yeah, I saw it. Sad movie.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Sat May 19, 2012 3:27 am

Monster wrote:
nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"

Yeah, I saw it. Sad movie.


Sad, but not a movie... even if edited to make a point (which does happen) that family, I guarantee you, is not invented, but as real slice of American life....
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Sat May 19, 2012 3:55 am

JO 753 wrote:Meth iz so addictive that even showz about it are addictive!

Havent seen The Wonderful Whites. Iz it az good az the blue stuff???? Whites? Like Walter White? WW! That CAN NOT be only a coincidence!!!! COME ON! HOOK ME UP ALREADY! I needz me sumthin to tide me over till BB starts up again!

Funny... and I agree that at least personally my addiction to "Breaking Bad.."and to some extent "Justified," can be classified as way up there with the drug itself..
And my entire family, three generations, is completely into it as well.. sorta like "the family that prays together...."
However, you would have to write to Vince Gilligan to find out the why and wherefore of the choice of "White" for the "hero's" family name.
Perhaps he wanted to suggest that cheap street drugs are not primarily directed at Black people.
Although the reference to Walt Whitman was very classy indeed., don't ya think?
By the way, not only has it been impossible for me to imagine what comes our way in the lest season of B.B. with 15 or 16 episodes!!.. other than the wife turning out to be Lady Macbeth and the son an equal opportunity monster (the signs are there) with Saul Goodman as the head of Interpol, but last week my daughter -in-law told me that the episodes are going to be split up into two seasons instead of one...
I take special care when I cross buy streets, and take extra vitamins as a shot toward living that long.
But meanwhile, I am looking forward to interviewing Giancarlo Esposito very soon, having nothing to do with B.B. but rather about Brooklyn, New York, and the once role of the neighborhood "candy" store.
Maybe I'll endanger my career and my reputation by just going right to Breaking Bad and the possibility that Gus is not dead, but just laying low with his now one eye on REVENGE...
And by the way, will you join a committee to see that Mark Margolis who played that extraordinary invention Tio Salamanca gets the belated awards that are due him?
As he can't get an Oscar or the Congressional Med of Honor, the only thing that fits his contribution is a Nobel Prize... but for what? Peace seems inappropriate, but there must be something, and my son and I want to see that justice is done.
But for now... ding, ding, ding.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Sat May 19, 2012 2:12 pm

The new designer drugs seem as scary as Meth, right now. Some called "Bath Salts". They are designed here, the ingredients lists are sent over seas, then they are imported as not for consumption products, such as bath salts, or incense. There have been some bizarre, violent deaths, as a result. I even suspect, but have had no real confirmation, that they were involved, along with alcohol, in a violent episode, locally. They are cheap and so far, legal to purchase.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Monster » Sat May 19, 2012 4:02 pm

nmblum wrote:
Monster wrote:
nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"

Yeah, I saw it. Sad movie.


Sad, but not a movie... even if edited to make a point (which does happen) that family, I guarantee you, is not invented, but as real slice of American life....
NMB

:?:

A documentary is a movie.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Sat May 19, 2012 5:14 pm

Monster wrote:
nmblum wrote:
Monster wrote:
nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"

Yeah, I saw it. Sad movie.


Sad, but not a movie... even if edited to make a point (which does happen) that family, I guarantee you, is not invented, but as real slice of American life....
NMB

:?:

A documentary is a movie.

You're right....my bad...
I imposed my own response to "movies" as entertainment rather than revelation clearly an error in both judgment and accuracy.
And by my own standards that IS a no-no.
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Sat May 19, 2012 5:43 pm

fromthehills wrote:The new designer drugs seem as scary as Meth, right now. Some called "Bath Salts". They are designed here, the ingredients lists are sent over seas, then they are imported as not for consumption products, such as bath salts, or incense. There have been some bizarre, violent deaths, as a result. I even suspect, but have had no real confirmation, that they were involved, along with alcohol, in a violent episode, locally. They are cheap and so far, legal to purchase.

There IS no catching up when it comes to drugs .... just as I was learning (who KNEW?) about the science AND the social repercussions of methamphetamines as they are produced and marketed, along comes another and perhaps even worse example of giving the public what it wants..
But class and caste raises their ugly heads once again... meth, and I assume these latest introductions, like the crack before it, are marketed to the poor...and by the time society gets the word on their overwhelmingly destructive (and insidious) power the effects have already wrought great damage on communities already beset by hopelessness.
And I don't know why... paranoia? perhaps.. (put I can't apologize for it).. I suspect that when the profits are totaled up, the largest, by far, parts will be found in the coffers of the already rich and powerful... including banks...
The guys who were paid off in bling and fancy cars are the working class of the drug trade, they come and go... usually going early and violently..
The real robber barons are in the same mold as the robber barons who went before stealing land and resources.
.They , like old Joh D. and J.P.Morgan of old, live long and well, and always below the radar of the law.
The victims are the same people who have always been victimized by epidemics, whether it is head-lice, crabs, cholera, economic collapse or addictive , debilitating drugs.
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sat May 19, 2012 10:58 pm

clink clink clink. Famous last wordz.

I dont think Gilligan haz sed where he got the name. If he named Walter after the air traffic controller who crashed 2 planez together, he had the event planned frum the start. If not, it wuz ingenious how he incorporated it into the show.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Sun May 20, 2012 9:16 am

JO 753 wrote:clink clink clink. Famous last wordz.

I dont think Gilligan haz sed where he got the name. If he named Walter after the air traffic controller who crashed 2 planez together, he had the event planned frum the start. If not, it wuz ingenious how he incorporated it into the show.

IF you want to know how nutty I am on this subject, I have to be up in three hours to catch a train but I can't go to sleep without asking: who WAS that controller, and what air mishap are you talking about?

As to the ingenuity of that pilot line, ALL of GIlligan's plot lines are ingenious, which is one reason that the series is so riveting.... one begins to see ever line and gesture as an important clue that will lead to some serious devastation down the line.
Really masterful technique... I simply love it all, the writing, the camera work, the locations, the actors..
And it does have a lot to say about the way we live, and how we think of ourselves in contrast to what we really are...

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sun May 20, 2012 12:27 pm

Sorrry! Didnt mean to keep you up!

Thout this woud be old nyooz to you. It wuz a big deal on the BB website. Herez a Discovery channel documentary :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuxy3sLUbk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLF8371AB83AAA7484 (this iz part 1, even tho the heading sez part 4) Take a hit uv sum primo skontay, open a fresh bag uv Funyunz, get a six pak on ice, relax and watch the whole thing.

If you dont hav time for that, herez an article:http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/2001/sp0101.html I only scanned it, and didnt see it mention Walter White by name; just sez "the controller".
Last edited by JO 753 on Sun May 20, 2012 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun May 20, 2012 12:40 pm

Paging Darwin.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Sun May 20, 2012 5:39 pm

nmblum wrote:But meanwhile, I am looking forward to interviewing Giancarlo Esposito very soon,


For print or TV?

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:25 am

JO 753 wrote:Sorrry! Didnt mean to keep you up!

Thout this woud be old nyooz to you. It wuz a big deal on the BB website. Herez a Discovery channel documentary :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuxy3sLUbk&feature=results_main&playnext=1&list=PLF8371AB83AAA7484 (this iz part 1, even tho the heading sez part 4) Take a hit uv sum primo skontay, open a fresh bag uv Funyunz, get a six pak on ice, relax and watch the whole thing.

If you dont hav time for that, herez an article:http://www.aopa.org/asf/asfarticles/2001/sp0101.html I only scanned it, and didnt see it mention Walter White by name; just sez "the controller".

Incredible!!
I am a latecomer to "BB" having come to it on demand of one of my sons...in the beginning of the fourth season., and then having stayed home watching Seasons One, Two, and Three at one practically one sitting, with time out only for life's necessities, which did NOT include work... unfortunately.. it turned out to be very expensive.
And worth every penny...
I would do it over in a heart beat.
BUT.. I missed all the good conversations that go on between people who are avid, interested and critical viewers of anything; I missed other viewers immediate thoughts and intuitions..
So thanks for this additional information that adds to the understanding of BB,,,,,

And thanks Jo.. more nightmares.. as if the glass eye floating mysteriously in the pool, weren't enough ( I spend a lot of time in the air and try to avoid the obvious and disheartening fact that my life is in the hands of people who are just like me, but much more overworked and with much more at stake). .
Yes there is no doubt that Vince Gilligan had this story in mind... the amazingly intricate and deliberate plotting of "Breaking Bad," can't be an accident... so far almost every word, every look, ever incident has had significance and resonance in another story line up the road...
Which is why it is so captivating.... that and that everything else about it,,, location,, setting, characters, actors, and social implications is so dramatic,so compelling.
What are you planning to do with your life, when BB is over.?
(Although apparently the next and final 15 episodes are going to be divided up into two seasons... so that means until at least the end of 2013.)



NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Tue May 22, 2012 12:40 am

JO 753 wrote:
nmblum wrote:But meanwhile, I am looking forward to interviewing Giancarlo Esposito very soon,


For print or TV?

For a spec project that covers films that reflect changes in American urban life....
And in this case the film under discussion is "Smoke..." which centers around a corner "cigar/candy store" in a neighborhood in Brooklyn that is in the process of yuppification...
The guys who hang out in the store are all terrific ensemble actors, including Esposito, most of them either native New Yorkers, or having paid their dues, lining in the city as they worked their way up in their careers..
.
And they have lively, interesting ideas about how it was, how it is, and how it will be.
If you haven't seen it, look for it.. i
The actors are terrific and the score is too.
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue May 22, 2012 1:09 pm

Thanks, I'll see it.

Hav you been to the AMC Breaking Bad site?

You MUST to do http://www.waltswarning.com/! Dont skimp! Hit the customize button & upload a picture, fill in the name & location. And watch it several timez and 'look' different dirctionz each time; it changez wut happenz.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue May 22, 2012 2:44 pm

nmblum wrote:What are you planning to do with your life, when BB is over.?


Certainly keep my eye open for Gilliganz next project!

I will also reliv the entire series every 2 or 3 yirz.

Its getting difficult to schedule all the great stuff to rewatch now. I just finished a Marvel Movie Marathon uv 16 moviez. Next I'll watch MIB, MIIB and MIB3 (they coud be considered Marvel moviez also), and then the Alien moviez.

Then therez Firefly which I can barely keep myself frum watching all. the. time! Now that Joss Whedon will be up there with James Cameron and Steven Speilberg in gross salez, its very likely he will do a Serenity sequel.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Tue May 22, 2012 3:00 pm

JO 753 wrote:Thanks, I'll see it.

Hav you been to the AMC Breaking Bad site?

You MUST to do http://www.waltswarning.com/! Dont skimp! Hit the customize button & upload a picture, fill in the name & location. And watch it several timez and 'look' different dirctionz each time; it changez wut happenz.

I'm on it like a ant on honey!!
Almost anything can distract me from what I have to do, but this is one of the best... spent much of last evening compiling lists of family and friends who would profit from receiving a gift of the first four seasons of "Breaking Bad," for their entertainment as well as their educations in how to put all the elements of good theater together and make a great TV series..while giving television a serious moral center.
There IS resistance!!
Some are even making fun of me!!
But I won't be deterred....I will plow on and I will prevail.
I way even put in my will that anything left over at my demise should be used to show "Breaking Bad" on a giant screen on the National Mall.
Maybe that will help to elect Jesse to first Congress and then ... who knows??... maybe even to the Presidency..... "then drug producer with the tender heart!!"

NMB
P.S. What do yo u think will happen to Mike? (Who in any other series would be an outstanding character.)
And more seriously - what do you think will be revealed about the once friends and colleagues of Walt, who became millionaires in the field of X-ray Crystallography?
X-Ray Crystallography! I don't think that even Public Television has so much as mentioned x-ray Crystallography!


NMB
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Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Tue May 22, 2012 11:33 pm

Jesse for prez!!!!! WOOOOOHOOOO!!!

An odd thing about me - I make a conscious effort to not speculate about future story possibiltiez. Kinda goez with avoiding previewz & commercialz for movie sequelz. I'm probably the only Terminator fan on earth who didnt know Arnold wuz going to be the good guy in T2.

Gifting BB!? The mark uv a true addict. I sent seazon 1 to my brother. Real Firefly fanz, Browncoats, do that alot. They will buy a stack and pass them out to strangerz!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:37 am

So how did your interview go?

Odd coincidence - a day or 2 after you mentioned that, my brother sent a link to an episode uv Community on HULU in wich Giancarlo wuz a gest star. Pure coincidence since he iznt a BB fan.

I am rewatching BB on the weekendz, 1 seazon per, in preperation for the new show on July 15th. Kinda hectic squeezing in all thoze episodez so I am getting elements uv the show in my dreamz! Tuco killed me 2 Sundayz ago!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:17 pm

nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"



Just watched it.

Proof that our taxonomic system iz worthless. Theze 'homo sapiens' are clearly not the same speciez az the majority uv thoze that I know.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:10 pm

WU? Hav you abandoned your own topic, NMB, bekuz you dont want to be seen associating with the Nooalf heretic? Bich!

A new grammar rule I'm considering for the expansion uv Nooalf to the whole language - every sentence must be followed by the wun word exclamation 'BICH', just like Jesse Pinkman duz in BB. Bich! An exception woud be if the sentence already endz with 'bich'.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:59 am

JO 753 wrote:WU? Hav you abandoned your own topic, NMB, bekuz you dont want to be seen associating with the Nooalf heretic? Bich!

A new grammar rule I'm considering for the expansion uv Nooalf to the whole language - every sentence must be followed by the wun word exclamation 'BICH', just like Jesse Pinkman duz in BB. Bich! An exception woud be if the sentence already endz with 'bich'.

I tried that with my nephew. His wife thought I was talking to her and/or about her all the time, so I stopped.
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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:52 pm

JO 753 wrote:
nmblum wrote:And by the way, has anyone seen "the Wild, Wonderful Whites of Boone County, Va.?"



Just watched it.

Proof that our taxonomic system iz worthless. Theze 'homo sapiens' are clearly not the same speciez az the majority uv thoze that I know.

Ah, but they are... and that', for me, is the political point of this documentary.
This is a big country - over three hundred million folks of not only all varieties of color and ethnic derivitive, caste and class, but the result of geographic determinism, history, and economic upheaval.
But we do tend to think that whatever it is WE are is the standard by which we and the world are perceived and understood.

I never knew anyone like the Whites, or for that matter that places like Boone County existed.... and even after I came upon them, I still thought that they were an anomaly and figures of either horror or fun..
But these people can be said to be "the real Americans..." the descendants of an early immigration from Ireland, England, Scotland... who, as pioneers, travelled into the Appalachian and Cumberland mountains looking for land and solitude, and isolation., taking with them, among other things, their language and their music.
For reasons too long to go into here, that desire worked against them from the beginning... and terrible things happened (including inbreeding) in those beautiful mountains, both self-inflicted and from powerful outside intrusions... most having to do with greed and power..
As you, Jo, are interested in language, the Appalachians are the repository of the remnants of the Shakespearian cadence, vocabulary and expressions..... it can still be heard in their daily speech even as they have been corrupted by now centuries of poor education, poverty, poor diet, disease, liquor and now of course and famously, the coup de grace of the scourge of drugs...
The Whites are a many things including man-made tragedy, but the important thing is that they are not figments of the film maker's (or novelist's) imagination...
They are as real as the Housewives of Beverly Hills.... and more real than the Norman Rockwell visions of America.
And a morality tale in the sense that what has happened to them, as what has happened to the Apaches, or the Cherokees, can happen to anywhere to anyone... .. the transfer of wealth, the ensuing poverty and ignorance leads to virtual obsolescence.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:09 pm

JO 753:
WU? Hav you abandoned your own topic, NMB, bekuz you dont want to be seen associating with the Nooalf heretic? Bich!

No, no... of course not... (you are not quite as heretical as you like to think)and while I am not exactly charmed by your expectations for an improved English, I certainly haven't excluded you as having other remarkable qualities. Good taste in TV fare among them.

A new grammar rule I'm considering for the expansion uv Nooalf to the whole language - every sentence must be followed by the wun word exclamation 'BICH', just like Jesse Pinkman duz in BB. Bich! An exception woud be if the sentence already endz with 'birch'.
I tried that with my nephew. His wife thought I was talking to her and/or about her all the time, so I stopped.

Very funny.
Be careful... so far the number of people who "get" the improved clarity of Nooalf is rather limited, and it would be easy to put yourself in danger by appending "Bich..." to the end of every sentence.. or greeting.
I, having been called much worse in my time, don't care what you call me as long as it isn't late for the July 14th return of "Breaking Bad."
And by the way, not that I wish to nag... but using YOUR, or Nooalf standards for new and improved language, wouldn't BICH be pronounced as in ICH?
Rather than ITCH?
Thus rendering it neither fish nor fowl...neither insult or compliment, or anything?

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:10 pm

Ye, it wuz funny to think about for a few dayz. I never took up swearing az a habit, so I'll leave that particular dialectical detail to Jesse & hiz colleaguez.

I hav never heard a distinction between wordz that hav a T before the CH and thoze that dont. Linguists believe that CH iz really T plus SH, but they are mistaken.

BB starts on the 15th. Like you sed, its going to be split into 2 seazonz. Its kool bekuz it will total 16 episodez - 3 more than usual!

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 2:48 pm

nmblum wrote:I never knew anyone like the Whites, or for that matter that places like Boone County existed....


I hav known a haf duzen or so. Wut to call them? Ultra slackrz? Loozerz? Skum uv the earth? Dregz uv humanity?

Altho there are elements uv economic disadvantage, regional normz, social heritage, education, etc. involved, I think its sumthing genetic. Sum people just seem to seek their lowest level.

No matter how much advantaj you give them or how hi they start, they will reliably find a way to throw it all away.

This failure gene appearz to run strong in the White family.

You will recall that the interviewee (sheriff?) named White, no relation I assume, sed that they alwayz had money; that they were getting disability and other gummit handouts. He blamed that for their condition, in fact. Wut iz it that keeps most uv them frum uzing this support to improve their livez?

I am certainly not certain about this. It coud just be a societal thing. After all, its bizarr to me how everybody just accepts this pile uv crap spelling system with the only explanation being that 'this iz the way it iz'! Call it peer pressure, but how many generationz duz it take to hav a detectable influence on the genez?

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 3:45 pm

JO 753 wrote:
nmblum wrote:I never knew anyone like the Whites, or for that matter that places like Boone County existed....


I hav known a haf duzen or so. Wut to call them? Ultra slackrz? Loozerz? Skum uv the earth? Dregz uv humanity?

Altho there are elements uv economic disadvantage, regional normz, social heritage, education, etc. involved, I think its sumthing genetic. Sum people just seem to seek their lowest level.

No matter how much advantaj you give them or how hi they start, they will reliably find a way to throw it all away.

This failure gene appearz to run strong in the White family.

You will recall that the interviewee (sheriff?) named White, no relation I assume, sed that they alwayz had money; that they were getting disability and other gummit handouts. He blamed that for their condition, in fact. Wut iz it that keeps most uv them frum uzing this support to improve their livez?

I am certainly not certain about this. It coud just be a societal thing. After all, its bizarr to me how everybody just accepts this pile uv crap spelling system with the only explanation being that 'this iz the way it iz'! Call it peer pressure, but how many generationz duz it take to hav a detectable influence on the genez?


The thing about what you call (some variation of) government handouts is that they aren't small enough to starve you to death or large enough to make any appreciable difference in the way you live...
Unless of course you are Halliburton.
The people of Boon County once lived off the land, and then mined coal, and both of those occupations disappeared as they lost the land, and the operators of the coal mines started to import Irish, Czech and German miners ... before coal was replaced, for cause, as our major source of energy...
The Whites are examples of people who have been demeaned by having no real place in the modern world...no useful skills for the larger society in in which we all live, and no meaningful employment of the kind that gives most of us our sense of worth.
As to being scum?
I don't know... "scum" is a harsh world for one human to use to describe another.... sort of like Catholics use Protestants, and vice versa...
It doesn't do anything for the problem or the problem solvers..
Genes (in the case of the Mountain people inbreeding did, and still does, contribute to their sorrows) DO count, but they are not the whole story..
American rapaciousness, and the ease with which capitalism as an economic system allows for both the fulfillment of individual dreams and the chewing up and spitting out of large segments of populations also contributes to what might be seen as the parable of the Whites.
My own response to them, beyond the horror (to me) of those lives, is that they ARE lives, and there but for the sake of certain accidents of birth and place, and time, go I...

I cannot, of course, speak for you.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:25 pm

I hav to agree with you in general. I dont really know any uv them beyond wut the movie showz.

I see that they are driving fairly decent vehiclez, manage to find cash for cigarettes, booz and all the drugz they take. Junior got himself a nice rifle. This iz the life they chooze, it seemz. They are usually cheerful and rowdy rather than glum and griping uv being downtrodden. The wun who moved to Utah sed sumthing about getting away to a better life.

America shoud see them az an example. The problemz are serious, the solutionz obvious, and yet we keep on going in the same direction year after year.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:03 pm

Saw "Savages" last night.... and came away convinced that "Breaking Bad" has been even better, in every way... structurally, the writing, the character development, the casting, the acting, the ambience than any other fiction related to the story of drugs in our time, in our country...
No more apologies from me for my obsession.... "Savages" is overwrought, short on recognizable humanity and totally lacking in humor. The violence seemed synthetic, the sex extraneous, and the characters much less interesting., the direction looser and without any really moral center of any significance.
Yay.."Breaking Bad."
Yay, Vince Gilligan.....great writer, director, editor... and thoughtful interpreter of our national ethos and morality.


NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 6:49 pm

JO 753 wrote:I hav to agree with you in general. I dont really know any uv them beyond wut the movie showz.

I see that they are driving fairly decent vehiclez, manage to find cash for cigarettes, booz and all the drugz they take. Junior got himself a nice rifle. This iz the life they chooze, it seemz. They are usually cheerful and rowdy rather than glum and griping uv being downtrodden. The wun who moved to Utah sed sumthing about getting away to a better life.

America shoud see them az an example. The problemz are serious, the solutionz obvious, and yet we keep on going in the same direction year after year.


News and notes from Boone County (and its neighbors) and its increasingly complicated problems .... no jobs and lots of available meth.
For buying, selling, using.
And all of it magnified and made more hopeless by the intrusion of money (coal profits) and power... environmentalists versus the coal mine owners and the now marginalized miners.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/09/opinion/appalachia-turns-on-itself.html?hp
But does the alternative have to be a virtually destroyed and certainly dangerously debased environment?
With people to match?
Easy to dismiss the Whites as just a family or worthless, drink and drug imbibing lay-abouts, but it could happen to anyone, anywhere, when the traditional ways of life eroded and nothing better or even as good took its place.

NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:45 am

Just watched Winter's Bone

It's amazing how a great writer and director can take a 'small' story in which nobody duz anything remarkable and make a great movie. No superheroz, no gun battlez, no car chasez, no Kung Fu. Just good actorz playing their parts under the gidance uv an inspired & competent director.

It wuz fun to see the Skanky Skank again. Funny thing - I thout Dale Dicky wuz Spooge in seezon 2 episodez Breakage and Peekaboo, so I wuz looking for him in the movie, thinking he & Skanky were in it. But no. Several guyz look alot like David Ury, but Dale Dickey iz a woman.

A little coicidence I noticed - Garret Dillahunt playz the Sherrif in this also played the main adversary terminator in Sara Conner Chroniclez and the post production consultant in Winterz Bone wuz Sara Conners. (yes, I'm a nerd who watchez the credits)

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby fromthehills » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:49 am

nmblum wrote:Saw "Savages" last night.... and came away convinced that "Breaking Bad" has been even better, in every way... structurally, the writing, the character development, the casting, the acting, the ambience than any other fiction related to the story of drugs in our time, in our country...
No more apologies from me for my obsession.... "Savages" is overwrought, short on recognizable humanity and totally lacking in humor. The violence seemed synthetic, the sex extraneous, and the characters much less interesting., the direction looser and without any really moral center of any significance.
Yay.."Breaking Bad."
Yay, Vince Gilligan.....great writer, director, editor... and thoughtful interpreter of our national ethos and morality.


NMB


Okay, fine. I'm watching Breaking Bad from the beginning. Meaning, first season. Should I stay away from this thread for spoilers, or ... Okay I'm staying away until I catch up.

See ya then.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby JO 753 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:36 am

Another noch uv respect for fromthehills. And I kind uv envy hiz impending fresh experience uv BB.

(if you cheated and came back, from, dont worry, I never do spoilerz & havent seen NMB do any either. But!!!! There are spoilerz here for you since you are new to the show!!!! So dont read this whole thred!!! Dammit! that meanz I coud be gilty uv spoilerz!)

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:05 pm

JO 753 wrote:Another noch uv respect for fromthehills. And I kind uv envy hiz impending fresh experience uv BB.

(if you cheated and came back, from, dont worry, I never do spoilerz & havent seen NMB do any either. But!!!! There are spoilerz here for you since you are new to the show!!!! So dont read this whole thred!!! Dammit! that meanz I coud be gilty uv spoilerz!)

Spoiler? No!!!
But it would be interesting for FTH to chime in once in a while with news bulletins: which episode he is up to, and what he thinks about what he has seen and listened to so far.
Because he is what a friend of mine refers to as "fresh meat!!"
"Aha!! A new guy!! A, so to speak...virgin!! Not yet twisted by many and long discussions about ...well, about everything."
Someone who, new to the story, has a different perspective than those who already accept without question that they are viewing something extraordinary.
And you, Jo? What do YOU think, two weeks into it, about this latest season (no spoiler details, just your opinion).
For me, an unabashed lover of conspiracy theories, it has been delicious - and ominous.
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby angawawa » Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:42 pm

Jo-

Then therez Firefly which I can barely keep myself frum watching all. the. time! Now that Joss Whedon will be up there with James Cameron and Steven Speilberg in gross salez, its very likely he will do a Serenity sequel.[/quote]

Omygod, omygod, omygod. I am totally freaking out. Is this just a feeling you have or have you heard a rumor? Firefly and Serenity are two of my absolute faves. I am also a BB fan, but my favorite all time series was Babylon 5, which I have on disc and re-watch every few years.

My favorite thing about BB is the transformation of Walter. In the beginning he is this mild-mannered teacher, and by the end of season 3, (which is where I'm at) he has changed into a man who can cold-bloodedly not only order a murder, but commit two himself. The shaved head, the goatee, the hat. Bryan Cranston is just amazing. What a change from Hal in Malcolm in the Middle!
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby angawawa » Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:11 pm

NMB-

I found your comments about the people of Boone County to be eloquent and thought-provoking. I live in SW Missouri, and happen to know a lot of people just like the Whites. I had an unfortunate and short-lived relationship with meth myself, and because of this - the 3 or 4 hour long trips from dealer to dealer, visiting some very scary places and people, the jaw-aching jonesing - I became acquainted with people just like those in Winter's Bone. I haven't seen the movie yet, so I can't comment on it, but I can tell you that it makes people crazy, really crazy. I've seen people go without sleep for more than a week, forget to feed their children or send them to school, get into vicious fights over tiny amounts of the drug, spend hours obsessing over weird {!#%@}. I've had thousands of dollars worth of plumbing equipment stolen by "friends." I have seen an enormous number of people lose their kids and not even care. I have seen pregnant girls shooting up. I was one of the lucky ones, after a couple of years I had a sort of revelation, and I have been clean for many years. Still, even with my own experiences, and seeing that the vast majority of users (but not all - I knew attorneys and cops and teachers who were addicts) were the from the very bottom rungs of society, living in a system which keeps them down in so many ways (think of who goes to pawn shops, who uses title loan companies which are allowed to charge outrageous amounts of interest) I still laughed and made fun of the Whites when I saw the movie, thinking myself so superior to them. Thanks for your words.
If you keep your mind sufficiently open, people will throw all manner of garbage into it.

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:58 pm

And thank you, angawawa, for your open, thoughtful response.
A message from the horse's mouth,as it were, and thus more valuable than any conjecture; I know how hard, even impossible, and a life-long trial it is to give up even a minor habit , so successfully giving up a drug, and especially one as virulent as meth, is heroic to me.
Don't beat yourself up for laughing at the Whites... funny is funny, and the excesses that clan are often risible even when they emerge from a wasteland of tragic proportions..
Laughter is often a safety-valve: we are all clowns, Pagliaccis: laughing when it seems impossible to breath, and the heart is breaking.
Say one for the unique human ability to laugh!!
By the way, if you want to see another side of life in Appalachia, and people who not long ago actually were representative of those who lived and worked there, rent "Harlan County, U.S.A."
And of course, "Matewan.," John Sayles' very good film.
And then there is a commercial, "Hollywood" made film, "the Molly Maguires," which does give some inking of who the Whites once were, how they lived.
And never will again for all the reasons you outlined in your very eloquent posting..
NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."

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Re: Methamphetamine America

Postby nmblum88 » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:01 pm

angawawa wrote:Jo-

Then therez Firefly which I can barely keep myself frum watching all. the. time! Now that Joss Whedon will be up there with James Cameron and Steven Speilberg in gross salez, its very likely he will do a Serenity sequel.


Omygod, omygod, omygod. I am totally freaking out. Is this just a feeling you have or have you heard a rumor? Firefly and Serenity are two of my absolute faves. I am also a BB fan, but my favorite all time series was Babylon 5, which I have on disc and re-watch every few years.

My favorite thing about BB is the transformation of Walter. In the beginning he is this mild-mannered teacher, and by the end of season 3, (which is where I'm at) he has changed into a man who can cold-bloodedly not only order a murder, but commit two himself. The shaved head, the goatee, the hat. Bryan Cranston is just amazing. What a change from Hal in Malcolm in the Middle!

To borrow a line from another television character: "THAT"S ACTING!!"
Just a suggestion: I don't think our characters change...adaptation based on experience and necessity may color how we behave, but character is essentially formed early and lasts forever no matter what.
A successfully reformed thief is someone who not only was aware of a need for personal transformation but had the strength and the basic values to actually live as an "honest "man.
In other words, a death bed conversion, is merely that.....expedience dictates to the weak.
(And yes, of course I COULD be wrong... but ....)
So as to WW in BB: he obviously had some personality issues that caused a falling out with the friends who took advantage of his intellect and went on to become millionaires leaving him behind.
And clearly he was seething with resentment at the way his life was going, but was too conventional (and afraid of his wife) to admit to it..
I think, and of course one brings one's own character to any interpretation of another human, fictional or real, that Walter was a milquetoast with delusions of grandeur and a collection of grudges that were buried under an assumed persona of normal citizen.
Smarter and more talented than most, an unappreciated good teacher fighting a losing battle against the ennui, the disinterest, even the contempt of students whose goal was to finish the course, rather than in being educated in organic chemistry... or anything else.
Do I see myself in that description of the teacher?
Of the students?
A little.
"I coulda been a contender..." is the mantra of more Americans than any other people on earth...
That it isn't true for 99.99% - being a contender isn't that easy and includes above all, WORK - doesn't detract from the tragic consequence of what is, inevitably, disappointment: .i,e, the lone gunman on the water tower, or in MacDonald's.
Or in the dark theater.
Isn't it possible that Walt had, at the time we first meet him, already mowed down (in his head) any number of relatives, employers, professors, acquaintances?
EVEN his wife and kid?
"Buy the RV, we start tomorrow," might be memorable because it is a common, recognizable fantasy.
Just a thought.
I hope there is no hint of spoiler in this.... all of it comes from the first season...but if there is, I apologize and vow to not speak of it again without FTH's permission..



NMB
Skepticism:
" Norma, you poor sad lonely alcoholic. You entire life is devoted to interrupting other people's posts on this forum, regardless of the topic, to tell them what's wrong with them. The irony is, here you are doing it again, with this very post.
Your fanciful card games, movie sojourns and exciting overseas trips, that all take place within the four walls of an aged care retirement home, do not suggest your own children offered you the care, I gave my parents."


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