"Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
User avatar
iGoddard
New Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:52 pm

"Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby iGoddard » Mon May 01, 2017 8:47 pm

On Earth Day I attended the March for Science in Washington, DC to join in opposition to Trump's war on climate science. To my surprise, an invited speaker advocated for an alternative science called "indigenous science" (IS). I was skeptical at the time, and after doing further research my skepticism has only grown, prompting me to express my thoughts in this video.

https://youtu.be/493LI01VtwM

The speaker at the March for Science, Professor Kimmerer, presented a rather guarded and catch-phrase-laden description of IS there. But elsewhere she reveals its more obviously spiritual and non-scientific features, such as seeing strawberries as intelligent beings (shown in the video). Animism is a core feature of IS, as indeed it is in indigenous cultures. But to call it science creates a pseudoscience. The defining features of IS are clearly spiritual, such as "maintaining balance," "resonating with the cosmos" (stated by the leading IS proponent Professor Gregory Cajete, quoted in the video), and "drawing on all the Sense, including the spiritual and psychic." Psychic science no less!

The presence of spiritualism at the March for Science isn't just a one-off incident. There has been a concerted effort to incorporate IS into the science curricula of schools, in an effort to "decolonize" science, ie, to minimize "western science." A google search for ("indigenous science" OR "native science") school curriculum reveals a large literature on the topic coming from academia itself.

The history of science has been a process of marginalizing spiritual traditions, as science weeds out false ideas. Yet this process is being framed as colonial racism wrt weeding out non-European spiritual traditions. That radical ideological view holds that science should include the "ways of knowing" of marginalized non-European cultures. Hogwash! The same standards that have been applied to indigenous European spiritualism should be equally applied to non-European spiritualism. While I see no problem with calling IS indigenous philosophy and it being taught in surveys of philosophies, it behooves us to preserve the meaning of science.

User avatar
Pyrrho
Administrator
Posts: 10256
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:31 am
Contact:

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby Pyrrho » Tue May 02, 2017 12:13 am

Unlocked. Please stay on topic in your replies.
For any forum questions or concerns please e-mail skepticforum@gmail.com or send a PM.

The flash of light you saw in the sky was not a UFO. Swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10209
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Tue May 02, 2017 5:48 pm

I've read the "split" post on this subject. I'm happy I don't get the subtleties of the subject. In my ignorance, I thought making fun of Gorgeous/Woo was right on topic?==>but I must be wrong.

There is no "Alternative Science" or Indigenous Science or Invisible Science or Jewish Scientist or Biblical Science or anything other than: Science. Its a tight tautology. If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science. If you don't, then keep working on it as the ideas come to you and time and money permit.

"Perhaps" my definition is too pragmatic???.......... That works for me.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
True Skeptic
Posts: 10407
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby OlegTheBatty » Tue May 02, 2017 7:33 pm

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.


Um . . . prayer produces consistent results. . .
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19638
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue May 02, 2017 8:14 pm

:laff:

You've gotta change that. Prey the right and initiated way... :mrgreen:



Back to OP: This as of recently unfamiliar "science" seems to recognize the importance of every aspect of a functioning system - which has a certain charm, but loses much of that if an unproven consciousness and/or intend are ascribed to them. What's the claimed result/difference (benefit) if said consciousness is acknowledged?
Hi, Io the lurker.

User avatar
Cadmusteeth
Regular Poster
Posts: 927
Joined: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:43 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue May 02, 2017 10:18 pm

OlegTheBatty wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.


Um . . . prayer produces consistent results. . .

Yeah, they either happen or they don't. Oh, wait...
You wanted them to happen all the time?

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
True Skeptic
Posts: 10407
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby OlegTheBatty » Wed May 03, 2017 5:35 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote: If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.


Um . . . prayer produces consistent results. . .

Yeah, they either happen or they don't. Oh, wait...
You wanted them to happen all the time?


Prayers : Somewhere in the trillions
Results: 0
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
gorgeous
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4129
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby gorgeous » Wed May 03, 2017 9:56 pm

If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.---------------such as remote viewing and psychic readings....
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19638
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed May 03, 2017 10:10 pm

gorgeous wrote:If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.---------------such as remote viewing and psychic readings....

Stealin' and corrupting quotes again, aren't we?
Hi, Io the lurker.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29100
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby Gord » Thu May 04, 2017 7:08 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
gorgeous wrote:If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.---------------such as remote viewing and psychic readings....

Stealin' and corrupting quotes again, aren't we?

Consistent results: Remote viewing and psychic readings are garbage.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
gorgeous
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4129
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:25 pm

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby gorgeous » Thu May 04, 2017 11:55 am

nope
Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26363
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri May 05, 2017 12:11 am

gorgeous wrote:nope


This thread is about indigenous traditions being dressed up as science. The failed CIA remote viewing program is not a native indigenous tradition, is it? Pyrrho has removed your spammed remote viewing claims twice from this thread already. Stop spamming the forum.

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
True Skeptic
Posts: 10209
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: "Indigenous science" @ March for Science

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Fri May 05, 2017 3:55 am

gorgeous wrote:If whatever process you have produces consistent results: you got science.---------------such as remote viewing and psychic readings....


Hmmmm, in my view, almost everything in science and/vs religion is pretty "obvious." Disagreed with and contentious to the point of war and genocide.....but still: obvious.

So I hesitate to state the obvious but remote viewing and psychic readings very consistently fail to predict or reveal or test true. So.........what we have here is SCIENCE: remote viewing and psychic readings are invalid.

Same with most of IS--whatever anyone wants to think about it.

..................as a slight aside............ it does make me wonder about my species. Just how lucid are we? OP's on evil, skepticism, religion, holocaust and its denial, science denying subjects, the inability to tell the difference between facts and opinion and/or values, hopes and dreams for rational expectations. It can be framed in so many ways. What to think?????

I'm thinking people "on their own" are fairly inoffensive with reasonable or unreasonable hardly part of the equation. Its when we group together that evil really comes to the fore. "Comparatively"...... scientists and prophets for good or ill can work in isolation. But group a billion together and you've got the Catholic Church, or the Third Reich, or any other political party. It takes "groups" of people. Not the same thing as a person, or humans.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kamorkason and 1 guest