EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.
User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby SweetPea » Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:25 pm

at the Gold King Mine ...and they are now busy wiping photographic records from public view.
Obama's most transparent administration ever, does it again.
And this is what they have to say http://www2.epa.gov/goldkingmine/gold-k ... fact-sheet


How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
Flash
Has More Than 6K Posts
Posts: 6001
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2005 10:09 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Flash » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:47 am

{!#%@}, it looks like the river is full of gold. You have nothing against gold I hope and screw the fish. They ought to get the Darwin awards for swimming in a river full of gold.
When I feel like exercising, I just lie down until the feeling goes away. Paul Terry

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby SweetPea » Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:10 am

The colour is mostly from Iron (rust). It's been illegal to sift the bottom for gold flakes BTW...environmental protection.
How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

User avatar
SweetPea
Has No Life
Posts: 12885
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 4:11 am
Custom Title: Too Cute

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby SweetPea » Sat Sep 12, 2015 1:49 am

How do the Deniers get so lucky?
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24129

city slicker
New Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:46 pm

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby city slicker » Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:56 pm

It has been several months since this event. Why has no one ever been held accountable?

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7621
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby TJrandom » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:37 am

city slicker wrote:It has been several months since this event. Why has no one ever been held accountable?


Because negligence has not been established.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/22/epa-c ... e-blowout/

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:45 pm

TJrandom wrote:
city slicker wrote:It has been several months since this event. Why has no one ever been held accountable?


Because negligence has not been established.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/22/epa-c ... e-blowout/

They haven't tried to assign blame to anyone, or even look at whether the EPA was negligent.

It's pretty clear that there was negligence involved, on multiple levels. First, the people who created the problem (the miners); second, the people who allowed the problem to linger (government representing residents of Silverton); and third, the people who tried to mitigate the problem (the EPA).

http://www.cpr.org/news/story/gold-king ... cial-costs
https://www.hcn.org/articles/why-silver ... rfund-site

Blame one, blame 'em all, I don't particularly care. It was a stupid problem to have in the first place, and it was handled stupidly thereafter, and it's still being handled stupidly.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

city slicker
New Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:46 pm

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby city slicker » Sun Apr 10, 2016 2:55 pm

Of course, the people at the EPA are still drawing their salaries. EPA says "mistakes will happen". Suppose a private company did the same thing. Does anyone here think the private company could get away with "mistakes happen"?
One measure of a good leader is that he or her surrounds himself or herself with competent people. Our current "leader" surrounds himself with Lois Lerners, and John Kerrys.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:03 pm

Yes, people with jobs do get paid. That is quite a shame.

And yes, private companies get away with "mistakes happen" all the time. It's usually someone senior, and if anyone ever takes the blame, it's usually someone in a junior position.

What do Lois Lerner and John Kerry have to do with the EPA, Silverton, or the Gold King Mine? Seems like a bit of a stretch, there.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

bobbo_the_Pragmatist
Has No Life
Posts: 11033
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:39 am

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:25 am

Overall good comments, but:
Gord wrote:[quote="TJFirst, the people who created the problem (the miners)


I assume you DO mean Coal Company Managers? Post back if I'm wrong.....and the higher up the chain you go, the more they should be in jail. Not even too late to do it NOW.
Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 11, 2016 1:33 am

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Overall good comments, but:
Gord wrote:First, the people who created the problem (the miners)


I assume you DO mean Coal Company Managers? Post back if I'm wrong.....and the higher up the chain you go, the more they should be in jail. Not even too late to do it NOW.

I don't know who specifically, but someone dug the mine and made a big mess, then left. In none of my examples did I single out anyone, but simply pointed out three categories of people who could be investigated if one were simply searching for someone to blame: The instigators, the procrastinators, and the disturbers.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7621
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 11, 2016 11:43 am

Blame Reagan - for permitting mining without collecting a clean-up fund before any mining took place.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:04 pm

I think this particular mine closed down in, like, the 1930s or so? Reagan probably wasn't in a position to permit mining back then. But I could be wrong on either count.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7621
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 11, 2016 7:55 pm

Gord wrote:I think this particular mine closed down in, like, the 1930s or so? Reagan probably wasn't in a position to permit mining back then. But I could be wrong on either count.


Mine was a shoot from the hip comment - Regan was responsible for the Civil War, the Spanish American War, Ebola, etc. Easy peasy.... :)

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:53 pm

Ohhhhh, like the way I blame Hitler for everything. I getcha!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
TJrandom
Has More Than 7K Posts
Posts: 7621
Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2014 10:55 am
Location: Pacific coast outside of Tokyo bay.
Contact:

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby TJrandom » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:25 pm

Here is a very good write-up on the history of that mine. Lots of people who could be blamed, including Reagan.

http://www.cpr.org/news/story/gold-king ... cial-costs

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:36 pm

I don't see Hitler mentioned anywhere in there, but it won't stop me!!

Oh look, there's a comment section. I could just add Hitler's name at the bottom, maybe....
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

city slicker
New Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:46 pm

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby city slicker » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:46 pm

Lack of accountability by government employees causing the spill are why people think the government is corrupt. They are correct. It is.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19787
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:44 pm

Face it, you're all going to die.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:36 am

EPA is a good example of negative consequences from what would seem to be a good thing .
that being women getting the right to vote .
now we have really smart / book smart women running stuff they have no clue about .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19787
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:03 am

Is it the EPA or it is people actively working to subvert whatever the EPA tries to do? I know Big Coal did its best to avoid any EPA oversight.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:28 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Is it the EPA or it is people actively working to subvert whatever the EPA tries to do? I know Big Coal did its best to avoid any EPA oversight.


your right - people who run these companies , constantly lie to epa inspectors . I know this first hand / part of it .
but it is the epa people who are at fault for being clueless .

also all the big coal companies in the usa are bankrupt .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 28, 2016 6:56 am

so let me get this straight:

it's the EPA's fault if a mine causes an environmental disaster because it didn't check enough?

That's like saying that a bank-robbery is the fault of the police because it didn't have enough patrols in the region.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

User avatar
psychiatry is a scam
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1288
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 12:23 am

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby psychiatry is a scam » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:27 am

ElectricMonk wrote:so let me get this straight:

it's the EPA's fault if a mine causes an environmental disaster because it didn't check enough?

That's like saying that a bank-robbery is the fault of the police because it didn't have enough patrols in the region.



bank robbery is not a good example because they rarely happen .
epa violations in factories and mines are constant . if they are not clueless , all they have to do is go inside .

I cant be sure about what is happening in mines , can only explain what I know .
I went to them and told them air pollution bag houses do not work .
I explained why . they did nothing . all they do is monitor emissions from a distance .
they do not spend enough time inside the plant to understand .
they were only interested in arresting someone .

I can guess what happens with mines - they take water samples outside the mine .
they never go in the mine to see what is actually happening .
for the real minority ; there will be no justice , there will be no peace .
makes sense 2me , so it has 2be wrong .

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:55 am

You can't blame the people at the EPA if Congress doesn't give them the authority, funds or manpower to to their job.

But more importantly: it seems that some people here are working under the assumption that it's the EPA's responsibility to protect the environment: it is not.

It's job is to ensure that companies obey the laws about environmental protection: just because the EPA didn't check enough is zero excuse for dumping your sludge in a river in order to increase shareholder value.
Are we all babies who think it's ok to rub syrup into the carpet because mommy isn't looking?
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19787
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:33 am

psychiatry is a scam wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Is it the EPA or it is people actively working to subvert whatever the EPA tries to do? I know Big Coal did its best to avoid any EPA oversight.


your right - people who run these companies , constantly lie to epa inspectors . I know this first hand / part of it .
but it is the epa people who are at fault for being clueless .
In your universe, no doubt.
also all the big coal companies in the usa are bankrupt .
And?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29440
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gord » Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:04 pm

ElectricMonk wrote:It's job is to ensure that companies obey the laws....

Its
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19787
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jul 28, 2016 1:57 pm

Gord wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:It's job is to ensure that companies obey the laws....

Its

Good Gording.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3283
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: EPA negligence unleashes environmental disaster

Postby ElectricMonk » Thu Jul 28, 2016 5:53 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
ElectricMonk wrote:It's job is to ensure that companies obey the laws....

Its

Good Gording.


proud to be a job provider
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams


Return to “General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests