Best evidence for NDEs

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Kamil
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Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Kamil » Wed Aug 22, 2018 3:49 am

Let's see this quote from Dr. Long

He says:

“Dr. Jeffrey Long: The key thing is to know a few of the consistently seen elements of near-death experience that are the strongest evidence for their reality. For example, when you’re under general anesthesia, it should be impossible to have a lucidic organized remembrance at that time. In fact, under anesthesia, you’re typically so far under, with general anesthesia they often have to breathe for you. I mean you’re literally, brain shut down to the level of the brain stem and at that point in time some people have a cardiac arrest, their hearts stop, and of course, that’s very well documented. They monitor people very carefully that are having general anesthesia.

So, I have dozens and dozens of near-death experiences that occurred under general anesthesia and at this time, it should be, if you will, doubly impossible to have a conscious remembrance, and yet they do have near-death experiences at this time, and they’re typical near-death experiences. They have the same elements and appear to have them in the same orders as near-death experiences occurring under all other circumstances. In fact, a critical survey question I asked was what their level of consciousness and alertness during the experience was.

Well, even under general anesthetics, under those powerful chemicals to produce sedation, if they had a near-death experience under general anesthesia, their level of consciousness and alertness was identical to near-death experiences occurring under all other circumstances.

There’s absolutely no way the skeptics can explain that away, it’s impossible.”

Let's go even further: statistically, 1 in 10,000 people have anesthesia awareness. Yet in his study, he had 23 cases out of 2000 patients. They were lucid, had none of the terrible side effects most people have during AA. I think this may prove it

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Matthew Ellard » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:29 am

Kamil AKA Omniverse AKA Matt MSV7 wrote:Let's see this quote from Dr. Long.....
No thanks Matt MSV. This was already debunked. We don't need to debunk it again. :lol:

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by TJrandom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:42 am

Kamil wrote:... if they had a near-death experience under general anesthesia ... statistically, 1 in 10,000 people have anesthesia awareness. ...
Big IF, since there is no scientific evidence for NDEs. If you believe otherwise, please provide links to the peer reviewed scientific articles that cover the repeated and duplicated results of medical research.

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Gord » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:19 am

Surely NDE just means "near death experience"? I'm pretty sure some people have experienced being near death.
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by TJrandom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 11:41 am

Gord wrote:Surely NDE just means "near death experience"? I'm pretty sure some people have experienced being near death.
Oh - sure... doctors, funeral directors, military types, even slaughter house employees... all having been near death numerous times. You reckon that is what he meant? :roll:

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by busterggi » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:59 pm

Kamil wrote:Let's see this quote from Dr. Long

He says:

“Dr. Jeffrey Long: The key thing is to know a few of the consistently seen elements of near-death experience that are the strongest evidence for their reality. For example, when you’re under general anesthesia, it should be impossible to have a lucidic organized remembrance at that time. In fact, under anesthesia, you’re typically so far under, with general anesthesia they often have to breathe for you. I mean you’re literally, brain shut down to the level of the brain stem and at that point in time some people have a cardiac arrest, their hearts stop, and of course, that’s very well documented. They monitor people very carefully that are having general anesthesia.

So, I have dozens and dozens of near-death experiences that occurred under general anesthesia and at this time, it should be, if you will, doubly impossible to have a conscious remembrance, and yet they do have near-death experiences at this time, and they’re typical near-death experiences. They have the same elements and appear to have them in the same orders as near-death experiences occurring under all other circumstances. In fact, a critical survey question I asked was what their level of consciousness and alertness during the experience was.

Well, even under general anesthetics, under those powerful chemicals to produce sedation, if they had a near-death experience under general anesthesia, their level of consciousness and alertness was identical to near-death experiences occurring under all other circumstances.

There’s absolutely no way the skeptics can explain that away, it’s impossible.”

Let's go even further: statistically, 1 in 10,000 people have anesthesia awareness. Yet in his study, he had 23 cases out of 2000 patients. They were lucid, had none of the terrible side effects most people have during AA. I think this may prove it
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Monster » Wed Aug 22, 2018 5:24 pm

Gord wrote:Surely NDE just means "near death experience"? I'm pretty sure some people have experienced being near death.
Yeah, we already know that Near Death Experiences happen.
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Gord » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:21 pm

TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:Surely NDE just means "near death experience"? I'm pretty sure some people have experienced being near death.
Oh - sure... doctors, funeral directors, military types, even slaughter house employees... all having been near death numerous times. You reckon that is what he meant? :roll:
I'm pedantic! "UFO" doesn't mean "flying saucer", and "near death experience" doesn't mean "supernatural". Furthermore, "bread and butter" doesn't mean "desert" and "truth" doesn't mean "Truth™".
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Monster » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:25 pm

Gord wrote:
TJrandom wrote:
Gord wrote:Surely NDE just means "near death experience"? I'm pretty sure some people have experienced being near death.
Oh - sure... doctors, funeral directors, military types, even slaughter house employees... all having been near death numerous times. You reckon that is what he meant? :roll:
I'm pedantic! "UFO" doesn't mean "flying saucer", and "near death experience" doesn't mean "supernatural". Furthermore, "bread and butter" doesn't mean "desert" and "truth" doesn't mean "Truth™".
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Gord » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:31 pm

It doesn't mean either desert or dessert.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"Imagine an ennobling of what could be" -- the New Age BS Generator site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by scrmbldggs » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:47 pm

Kamil wrote:Let's see this quote from Dr. Long[...]

Well, even under general anesthetics, under those powerful chemicals to produce sedation, if they had a near-death experience under general anesthesia, their level of consciousness and alertness was identical to near-death experiences occurring under all other circumstances.

There’s absolutely no way the skeptics can explain that away, it’s impossible.”

Let's go even further: statistically, 1 in 10,000 people have anesthesia awareness. Yet in his study, he had 23 cases out of 2000 patients. They were lucid, had none of the terrible side effects most people have during AA. I think this may prove it
(my bold)

Who is "he"? What type of patients? Anesthesia awareness is quite common during cardiac surgery, since those patients are usually given lighter dosages.
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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by TJrandom » Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:05 pm

People under anesthesia are NOT near death. Very few die while under.

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Poodle » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:19 am

You don't understand the logic, TJ ...
Asleep is asleep. Unconscious is unconscious. Anaesthetised is goofy-goofy land and there be ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night. NDE's are a walk in the park compared with that lot.

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by TJrandom » Thu Aug 23, 2018 10:08 am

Poodle wrote:You don't understand the logic, TJ ...
Asleep is asleep. Unconscious is unconscious. Anaesthetised is goofy-goofy land and there be ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night. NDE's are a walk in the park compared with that lot.
I am OK with there being a variety of experiences for people under anaesthesia - but near death is unlikely. Maybe AH - anaesthesia hallucination, but surely not NDE.

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by Lance Kennedy » Thu Aug 30, 2018 7:40 pm

Reference, New Scientist, 25 August 2018, page 14

The psychedelic drug, ayahuasca, induces experiences indistinguishable from the near death experience. The drug is not paranormal. It is just a drug which induces changes in the brain. Low oxygen levels in the brain induce the same subjective experience. Nothing religious or paranormal at all.

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Re: Best evidence for NDEs

Post by scrmbldggs » Thu Aug 30, 2018 11:08 pm

Maybe they read my posts on DMT? :nuts:
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