World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

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World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Oct 21, 2017 12:55 am

Jo 753 claims that there really is a government conspiracy to hide alien UFOs from the public. However that doesn't make any sense on an international level

What treaty?
Communist China, the Soviet Union and the USA were enemies during the cold war. For these countries to conspire to keep alien UFOs hidden, they would have to have some sort of treaty between their government and military organisations. Yet no one can say who did this negotiation or even who the negotiating parties are?

What about India, the UK, West Germany, Japan? Are all 195 countries members of this same agreement? So what stops North Korea from making this all public to annoy the USA?


Where does the money come from?
China was bankrupt in 1949. Russia was almost bankrupt in 1991. Where does the money come from to monitor UFOs?


NORAD / GRU / RoW Airspace monitoring
NORAD is a billion dollar grouping of facilities monitoring USA airspace that employs thousands of people. Where are the same sized facilities in the USA and across the planet to monitor alien UFOs?


A Challenge
I challenge any alien UFO supporter to set out a plausible story-line for how and international "Men in Black" organisation can work across all countries.


From the 1970's UK TV show UFO.
SHADO.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFaFrVUDogo
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Poodle » Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:50 am

Absolutely spot on, Matthew. Earthlings demonstrably have great difficulties monitoring themselves, let alone the rest of the galaxy. But a bit of advice - the use of the term 'West Germany' may have given away your true origins, as it hasn't been around for a while.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby ElectricMonk » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:28 am

I think this is about the most wonderful and heartening conspiracy theory of all times.

To believe that governments would bridge all differences for a common goal shows a faith in our leaders that frankly I don't share.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:11 am

Let's pretend that there is a conspiracy, by all 194 world countries, to monitor and hide alien UFOs from the public. Let us ignore the big countries and consider "who is in the know" in smaller countries.

Would that be the new Prime minister of New Zealand? Who briefs her? What if she doesn't want to keep alien UFOs quiet? Does the international conspiracy then shoot the new New Zealand Prime minister? How many innocent Prime Ministers has the conspiracy had executed? Obviously it makes no sense to claim every Prime minister, that has ever lead a country, wants to keep alien UFOs secret. That implies the conspiracy must be toppling democratically elected governments.

So a UFO flies over Jamaica...... We see that the USAF is quite happy to send up jets to intercept the UFOs, so why can't the Royal Jamaican Airforce send up any pilot, on standby to intercept the alien UFO. So doesn't that mean the conspiracy has to keep all the pilots "in the know" and additionally all their radar monitoring personnel and senior officers?

Where is the Headquarters for the conspiracy? Where is the common shared military hardware to monitor alien UFOs. The Headquarters cant be in the USA as the USA was at war with the Eastern Block, most of the middle East and Communist Sth East Asia since the end of the war. The headquarters cant be in Russia for exactly the same reason.

How is this conspiracy managed on a day to day basis? Is it on a secret island?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMEuEF9-UbU
Isn't it amazing that Jerry and Silvia Anderson could invent a more plausible story line using puppets and models, for an international world conspiracy, than every alien UFO believer added together.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Pyrrho » Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:47 am

"For every explanation there is an equal and opposite rationalization."
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:25 am

Pyrrho wrote:"For every explanation there is an equal and opposite rationalization."

"For every good idea there are multiple version of the same stupid idea."
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gord » Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:15 am

I believe this is all answered in the currently playing documentary, People of Earth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlZCkRi05JQ
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Aztexan » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:09 pm

I think govts could hide the big secret if they don't know they're hiding the big secret.
It makes sense if you don't think about it too much.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:19 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Jo 753 claims that there really is a government conspiracy to hide alien UFOs from the public. However that doesn't make any sense on an international level


Straw man.

I never claimed it wuz international. Each nation coud hav its own organization to investigate UFOz. Wether it wuz intended to really investigate reports, cover them up, or both woud be their own choise. For example, the Soviets had Institute 22, wich according to this wiki article appearz to do both, whereaz Fransez GEIPAN makes its findingz available to the public.

List uv UFO investigationz by goverments

You try to karakterize Project Blue Book az an onest investigation in spite uv overwelming proof that its main mission wuz to defuze public interest. Read the critisizm by Hynek.

You act like the Air Forse goonz hoo were usually in charj uv Blue Book - ridicule, intimidate, obfuscate, explainerate. I joke about it, but maybe you really are a MIB!

Everybody here shoud read about Allen J. Hynek. He started az a skeptic, went along with the cover up program for decadez, yet in the end, the sientist in him prevailed.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:45 am

JO 753 wrote: Straw man. I never claimed it wuz international. Each nation coud hav its own organization to investigate UFOz.
That's hilarious.

So the North Koreans, Iranians and ISIS and 190 other countries, all have separate top secret organisations, that separately choose to keep aliens secret? Yet simultaneously, North Korea, Iran and so on tells everyone to monitor its airspace looking for missiles to hide the aliens landing there? Why doesn't North Korea announce it leads the world in locating and identifying aliens? Your logic makes no sense.


JO 753 wrote:the Soviets had Institute_22 wich according to this wiki article appearz to do both
Institute 22 is an imaginary wing of the Soviet Academy of Sciences and the Soviet military. In reality the UFO stories from the Soviet Union are published by TASS and independent publishers, with no controls at all. That's why there are so many stories from Russia. Enemy aircraft and missiles are actually assessed by the GRU. The Russian Federation Academy of Sciences does have a space research division outside Moscow with 300 employees. Lev Zeleny runs it and you can read it's updates in English.
http://www.iki.rssi.ru/eng/index.htm
Your "stories" have nothing to do with facts.



JO 753 wrote:whereaz Fransez GEIPAN makes its findingz available to the public.
GEIPAN monitors French spaceships and supplies space photos for schools and the public . You can actually read its updates in English.
https://cnes.fr/en

JO 753 wrote:You try to karakterize Project_Blue_Book az an onest investigation in spite uv overwelming proof that its main mission wuz to defuze public interest. Read the critisizm by Hynek.
All Blue book documents are released and Blue book was ended thirty years ago as it found no evidence of alien UFOs.

SETI
Oddly, you don't seem to know about SETI.
SETI is the only real international organisation that is looking for extraterrestrial life. Are you pretending that SETI is an international "trick" costing billions of dollars to look for aliens, so that countries can hide their top secret organisations looking for aliens?
:lol:

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:52 am

JO 753 wrote: Everybody here shoud read about Allen_Hynek..... the sientist in him prevailed.


Hynek dismissed alien UFOs sightings as ridiculous in 1973 : "A few good sightings a year, over the world, would bolster the extraterrestrial hypothesis—but many thousands every year? From remote regions of space? And to what purpose? To scare us by stopping cars, and disturbing animals, and puzzling us with their seemingly pointless antics? :D

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:45 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Jo 753 claims that there really is a government conspiracy to hide alien UFOs from the public. However that doesn't make any sense on an international level

JO 753 wrote:I never claimed it wuz international. .
I still can't get over this. SETI is the international organisation that looks for aliens, run by civilians. You didn't know about it.

Are you claiming the civilians who run SETI, a billion dollar set-up, are actually all "Men in Black" running a deceptive cover to pretend not to find aliens, while simultaneously each individual country is trying to keep aliens secret by funding SETI?

That implies Carl Sagan is one of the men in black.

That's simply insane.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:50 am

Uv course I no about SETI.

I'v alwayz thot it wuz just snobbery and narrow mindedness that they didnt include UFO reports az part uv their reserch. Never considered the idea that its part uv the cover up, but now that you mention it! 8-)
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:25 pm

The closed minded people are the ones that don't consider other posibilities; those people who advocate for UFOs being aliens are closed minded in that they don't consider other alternatives to UFOs being aliens.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:41 pm

If the UFO nuts would close their minds quicker they might still have a brain.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:34 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:35 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:35 pm

Cadmusteeth wrote:The closed minded people are the ones that don't consider other posibilities; those people who advocate for UFOs being aliens are closed minded in that they don't consider other alternatives to UFOs being aliens.


I'v alwayz sed that extraterrestrialz are the least fantastic explanation. Do you hav evidens that makes you prefer prehuman sivilizationz (lizardz), Atlantis, hollow Earth, time travelerz from our future, alternate reality travelerz, or wutever?
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:39 pm

Science Fundamentalism...is exactly what happens when there’s a significant, perceived ideological threat to one’s traditions and identity.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby salomed » Tue Oct 24, 2017 2:45 pm

What must be understood with these universal conspiracy theories is that that they require a world view that is different to how it is thought to be to all but those who believe in such conspiracy theories.

If you believe there really is no shadow government, or vice versa, then you already have your beliefs defined for a wide range of other conspiracy theories.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:07 pm

JO 753 wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:The closed minded people are the ones that don't consider other posibilities; those people who advocate for UFOs being aliens are closed minded in that they don't consider other alternatives to UFOs being aliens.


I'v alwayz sed that extraterrestrialz are the least fantastic explanation. Do you hav evidens that makes you prefer prehuman sivilizationz (lizardz), Atlantis, hollow Earth, time travelerz from our future, alternate reality travelerz, or wutever?

Do you have evidence beyond eyewitness testimony and pure speculation?

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 24, 2017 3:45 pm

Jo has tons of "I, witless" evidence.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:14 pm

JO 753 wrote:Uv course I no about SETI. I'v alwayz thot it wuz just snobbery and narrow mindedness that they didnt include UFO reports az part uv their reserch. Never considered the idea that its part uv the cover up, but now that you mention it! 8-)

That is not an answer to my question concerning SETI.

Are you directly claiming : Countries have individual top secret "Men in Black" organisations that deliberately hide aliens but simultaneously fund an international organisation, SETI, that looks for aliens, run by civilians they can't control.


Can you see that that makes no sense? :D

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:20 pm

JO 753 wrote: I'v alwayz sed that extraterrestrialz are the least fantastic explanation.
No you don't. For Washington in 1952 the least fantastic explanation was the real explanation. Temperature inversions causing false radar readings. In fact, there was not one fact concerning Washington that pointed to anything alien at all. That was an entire TV science fiction trope layer you added for no reason.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:37 pm

salomed wrote: If you believe there really is no shadow government, or vice versa, then you already have your beliefs defined for a wide range of other conspiracy theories.

It is not a shadow government but rather the pragmatic operation of this multi-Government conspiracy to hide UFOs that does not make sense.

NORAD monitors USA air and space looking for enemy missiles and so on in space. It is a multi-billion dollar organisation with massive radar facilities and five thousand employees. Where is the same set up for the secret government organisation that monitors UFOs?

A person might argue : "Well the government simply uses NORAD to monitor alien UFOs and pays all five thousand people to remain quiet" .....but that makes even less sense as it requires every person who has ever worked for NORAD to remain silent for the last 70 years. It would then require the same from the UKs Air Defence Monitoring Organisation, The Russian GRU, the Chinese Missile Defense Division, India's Air and Space Organisation, to also keep every employee in complete silence.

In contrast, the Manhattan project was penetrated by so many spies and leaks that Stalin knew about the atom bomb before Harry Truman. :D

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:43 pm

Truman wasn't in line to know about the bomb until he needed to know. The guy he replaced, the former Vice President, didn't know about it either.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:45 pm

gorgeous wrote:Professor Robert Jacobs eyewitness testimony

This was too funny to ignore.

Robert Jacobs is a professor of drama and not science. In 1964 he was a junior assistant cameraman who filmed USA missiles being tested. He claimed in 2012 that one of these missiles was attacked by a UFO in 1964. He forgot that the missile launch was filmed by his own crew and that film still exists and didn't show any UFO at all.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:48 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Truman wasn't in line to know about the bomb until he needed to know. The guy he replaced, the former Vice President, didn't know about it either.
To be frank, I'm very fuzzy who knew what and when. As it was an Anglo-American project and thus senior British people knew and the Russians fully penetrated the British in the 1930s.....then .......well......Russia probably had a lot of sources and not just the Rosenbergs.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:59 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Truman wasn't in line to know about the bomb until he needed to know. The guy he replaced, the former Vice President, didn't know about it either.
To be frank, I'm very fuzzy who knew what and when. As it was an Anglo-American project and thus senior British people knew and the Russians fully penetrated the British in the 1930s.....then .......well......Russia probably had a lot of sources and not just the Rosenbergs.

The British "Tube Alloys" project was blended in with the Manhattan Project when FDR promised full sharing of the information developed.

One other person, Klaus Fuchs, was spying during the war. He notified the Soviets.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Oct 24, 2017 11:05 pm

Fun Off Topic Story
In the 1960s UK TV show "UFO" Ed Straker was the managing director of the international anti-UFO organisation SHADO. SHADO operated under the cover of a film studio.
UFO 60s tv show.jpg


In reality, David Stirling, who set up the SAS during the war, had started a private mercenary company in the 1960s, called Watchguard International Ltd, that operated covertly from a UK film studio.

It would seem to me that the TV show simply stole the idea from David Stirling.
:D
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:57 am

Cadmusteeth wrote:Do you have evidence beyond eyewitness testimony and pure speculation?


Yes. I hav evidens that there iz much more evidens than we hav been allowed to see.

You see, the fundamental nature uv a cover up iz that the perpetratorz control the evidens. Do you ever watch the crime showz, like Forensic Filez? How woud murdererz ever get cot if the polise were helping them? Thats the situation with UFOz - the military iz not motivated to reveal the truth, they are motivated to hide it.

Plus I also hav lojik. The 'no alienz' theory requirez a larj number uv credibl witnessez to be transformed into idiots based only on the fact that they are claiming to hav seen non-human-made aircraft. Wuts that error called agen? Sumthing about prezuming the conclusion.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:26 am

JO 753 wrote: Yes. I hav evidens that there iz much more evidens than we hav been allowed to see.

Who is not letting us see this magical evidence? The secret Russian "men in black" organisation that hides aliens and UFOs? The secret USA Men in black" organisation that hides aliens and UFOs? The secret New Zealand "men in Black" organisation that hides UFOs?

JO 753 wrote:You see, the fundamental nature uv a cover up iz that the perpetratorz control the evidens.
So SETI, the international organisation, that looks for UFOs, that is run by civilians all over the planet is secretly hiding its discovery about aliens and UFOs. How exactly to "they" tell all SETI civilians to do this?


JO 753 wrote: the military iz not motivated to reveal the truth, they are motivated to hide it.
Why exactly is that? I spend hours reading NATO reports on new military hardware from China Russia and so on. The hard evidence is that all new technology is exposed by the military, civilian publications and individual enthusiasts.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:29 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Can you see that that makes no sense? :D


No, I cant.

There iz no conflict between denying UFOz and lissening for alien broadcasts.

From a stratejic perspectiv, it makes sens to be lissening, just in case there iz an armada on its way that happenz to uze radio. So, its economical to hav SETI running insted uv the military setting up its own world wide dish network.
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:32 am

JO 753 wrote: Plus I also hav lojik. The 'no alienz' theory requirez a larj number uv credibl witnessez to be transformed into idiots based only on the fact that they are claiming to hav seen non-human-made aircraft.


This claim is bizarre. Germany rolled out endless new weapons that no one had ever seen before. Yet, civilian reports were collected and used to determine what these weapons maybe were. I have already mentioned RV Jones who used these reports to identify the German V2 ICBM.

Hilariously, as the the number of high quality cameras rapidly increases on Earth, the number of photos of UFOs being produced is decreasing. Why is that? Shouldn't it be the other way around? :lol:

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby JO 753 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:38 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:So SETI, the international organisation, that looks for UFOs,


No they dont. They lissen for organized extraterrestrial radio signalz.


The hard evidence is that all new technology is exposed by the military, civilian publications and individual enthusiasts.


Lojik error - 'everything I see iz everything there iz.'

Ever hear uv Area 51?

How about Area 93?
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:40 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:Can you see that that makes no sense? :D

JO 753 wrote:No, I cant.
Say it in clear words Jo 753.

You claim that all the world's governments have separate secret organisations that hides aliens and UFOs, without an iota of evidence, yet the same governments simultaneously fund the SETI international organisation, run by civilians across the planet to look for aliens and UFOs and they can't control SETI.

JO 753 wrote:There iz no conflict between denying UFOz and lissening for alien broadcasts.
So if SETI finds evidence of UFOs will the USA "men in black" then force all SETI workers to pretend they didn't find anything?

How exactly would that work for New Zealand and Australian SETI workers Jo 753? We don't take orders from the USA.

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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:46 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:So SETI, the international organisation, that looks for UFOs,
JO 753 wrote: No they dont. They lissen for organized extraterrestrial radio signalz.

I see......so alien UFOs don't use radio but can be picked up on normal 1950's radio wave based radar? :lol:

JO 753 wrote: Ever hear uv Area 51?
Yes Jo 753. It is called Homey Airport (ICAO: KXTA) and Groom Lake, though the name Area 51 was used in a CIA document from the Vietnam War and is where the USA tries out new military aircraft.

Ever hear of Кубинка? It's where Russian try out new tanks.

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Cadmusteeth
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Cadmusteeth » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:38 am

JO 753 wrote:
Cadmusteeth wrote:Do you have evidence beyond eyewitness testimony and pure speculation?


Yes. I hav evidens that there iz much more evidens than we hav been allowed to see.

You see, the fundamental nature uv a cover up iz that the perpetratorz control the evidens. Do you ever watch the crime showz, like Forensic Filez? How woud murdererz ever get cot if the polise were helping them? Thats the situation with UFOz - the military iz not motivated to reveal the truth, they are motivated to hide it.
So if they control the evidence, how do you know there is actual evidence at all?

Plus I also hav lojik. The 'no alienz' theory requirez a larj number uv credibl witnessez to be transformed into idiots based only on the fact that they are claiming to hav seen non-human-made aircraft. Wuts that error called agen? Sumthing about prezuming the conclusion.
There's another error called the 'fallacy' fallacy where errors are pointed out where none are present.

Matthew Ellard
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:34 am

Jo 753 is absolutely telling the truth. I have obtained a 1980 documentary concerning the secret international anti-UFO organisation shooting down a UFO. :D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE-aBcfs854

KevinLevites
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Re: World governments unify to hide aliens? How?

Postby KevinLevites » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:47 am

I find it difficult to believe in such a vast, cooperative plot to hide evidence of aliens for a simple reason.

Anyone hear of Tabby's star?

Evidentally, light measurments from this star may (note that I said "may") indicate that an intelligent civilization is in the process of building a giant Dyson sphere around this thing to capture the solar energy.

There was no government clampdown on information. The data came from the Kepler orbital telescope, which is controled by NASA.

I read about it in Sky and Telescope and Scientific American. It was interesting news...especially for a science fiction writer such as myself.

I think that if there was solid evidence of alien visitation on Earth...someone would leak it.

Just look at Snoden. Look at any of the leaks that always happen. Someone always has to open their mouths.


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