Do you believe this man?

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Kamil
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Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:09 am

Apparently people say they knew him and that he is totally genuine. They say they went to school with him and he was a total atheist until this experience, but I have my doubts. I feel he may have lied to make a profit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmp3UNjeu0k

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby scrmbldggs » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:13 am

How about also reading/watching and posting a debunking article/video?
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Monster » Thu Sep 14, 2017 2:53 am

Do you believe this man?

No.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:14 am

Monster wrote:
Do you believe this man?

No.



Why?

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Aztexan » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:36 am

Do fools fall in live?
Must I be a teenager in love?
I don't like Mondays?
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:32 am

Kamil wrote:
Monster wrote:
Do you believe this man?

No.



Why?

Know nothing about him. You provide jack-shit to work with. Lazy {!#%@}.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gord » Thu Sep 14, 2017 12:41 pm

What man?
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Gord wrote:What man?

DA MAN!
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Monster » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:18 pm

Kamil wrote:
Monster wrote:
Do you believe this man?

No.

Why?

Because I have no reason to believe him.

EDIT: I did a small amount of digging. This was the only negative thing regarding Bryan Melvin that I could find.

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/ar ... b-w-melvin

I'm not sure I agree with the "presupposing god=not an atheist" logic.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:55 pm

FFS.
Image
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:16 pm

Monster wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Monster wrote:
Do you believe this man?

No.

Why?

Because I have no reason to believe him.

EDIT: I did a small amount of digging. This was the only negative thing regarding Bryan Melvin that I could find.

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/ar ... b-w-melvin

I'm not sure I agree with the "presupposing god=not an atheist" logic.



But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:45 pm

Disregard the man, consider the possibilities. Could that have happened? A rational person would say "no". Appealing to authority is just another way to screw the pooch.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Monster » Fri Sep 15, 2017 1:45 pm

Kamil wrote:
Monster wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Monster wrote:
Do you believe this man?

No.

Why?

Because I have no reason to believe him.

EDIT: I did a small amount of digging. This was the only negative thing regarding Bryan Melvin that I could find.

http://atheistnexus.org/forum/topics/ar ... b-w-melvin

I'm not sure I agree with the "presupposing god=not an atheist" logic.



But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Hallucinations.
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 2:11 pm

Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:06 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:20 pm

Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.

{!#%@} you're quibbles.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby digress » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:57 pm

Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.


Christopher Hitchens best articulates this point on the existence of your diluted rabbi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjcWkhqScBI
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:11 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.

{!#%@} you're quibbles.


You haven't proven he didn't exist. I'm not saying he rose from the dead or performed miracles but how do you know a man named Jesus during that time didn't exist

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:46 pm

I don't care if Jesus is the guy doing my lawn. Your magic man never happened.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:48 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I don't care if Jesus is the guy doing my lawn. Your magic man never happened.


but he shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Fri Sep 15, 2017 8:56 pm

digress wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.


Christopher Hitchens best articulates this point on the existence of your diluted rabbi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjcWkhqScBI


Hitchens was a journalist, not a historian

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:04 pm

Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I don't care if Jesus is the guy doing my lawn. Your magic man never happened.


but he shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.

No, it proves your a gullible ass.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:18 pm

But he sounds so SINCERE. He MUST be right.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Aztexan » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:20 pm

How do we know the bearded guy who shows up for NDEs isn't John Lennon or Ted Nugent or Che Guevara or the spirit of some random caveman? Jesus should invest in a name tag.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:22 pm

Aztexan wrote:How do we know the bearded guy who shows up for NDEs isn't John Lennon or Ted Nugent or Che Guevara or the spirit of some random caveman? Jesus should invest in a name tag.

Okay, I'll fess up. I have a beard.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Aztexan » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:28 pm

And ever since you started your new meds, you've been so christ-like.
:P
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:31 pm

Gawd, that doesn't mean you're a garden gnome. But Shirley K lives under a bridge...
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:34 pm

Aztexan wrote:And ever since you started your new meds, you've been so christ-like.
:P

Yeah, dead Jew-like.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:31 pm

Kamil wrote:You haven't proven he didn't exist. I'm not saying he rose from the dead or performed miracles but how do you know a man named Jesus during that time didn't exist
If you go looking through history for a man named "Jesus" at the times and in the places where he is alleged to have existed, you will not find him. Or anyone by that name, since it derives from Late Latin.

However, if Jesus existed as a man, so what? You can prove that someone existed, but that doesn't prove that every single anecdote on record about that someone—or any of them at all—is true. For example, none of the Gospels, which relate the life and times of Jesus, was written during the claimed lifetime of Jesus, and all were written in Greek, not Aramaic. Hearsay at best.

So, let's presume for the sake of argument that we have proven the existence of Jesus as a man. All of these people also existed in the 1st Century; do you worship them simply because their existence has been proven?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby digress » Sat Sep 16, 2017 7:22 pm

Kamil wrote:
digress wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.


Christopher Hitchens best articulates this point on the existence of your diluted rabbi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjcWkhqScBI


Hitchens was a journalist, not a historian


And you are?

Kamil wrote:I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed.


Just to clarify Christopher Hitchens wasn't just a journalist for he had to be more in order to articulate such books as; god is Not Great, Thomas Jefferson - Author of America, A Long Short War, Imperial Spoils, Blaming the Victims, Regime Change, The Monarchy, Why Orwell Matters, and more.

But since you dug this hole for yourself please tell me what are your credentials to back your historian's claim that, "..a man named Jesus existed."?
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gord » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:36 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.

{!#%@} you're quibbles.

your :P
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gord » Sun Sep 17, 2017 1:37 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I don't care if Jesus is the guy doing my lawn. Your magic man never happened.


but he shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.

No, it proves your a gullible ass.

:jaded: you're
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Phoenix76 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:44 am

Kamil, your biggest mistake that I see in this thread is your declaration that a person named Jesus did exist. You then put it on the rest of us to prove you wrong.

My friend, that is not how it works. We don't have to disprove anything. You have to prove your statement. That's how it works. If you want to declare something as true, then you must prove it, not the other way around.

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:11 am

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
But if you found out this man was being genuine would you believe him or would you think it was just hallucinations? In this Jesus apparently taught him lessons

Jesus never existed, not the god you think of. So your who argument is moot, null, BS, nonsense, and just like you.


How do you know Jesus never existed? I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed. Whether or not he performed miracles is a different story. These NDEs are the only thing that may prove Jesus. However, if it were proven these NDEs were fake I think I would be skeptical that he died and came back to life. However, Jesus is mentioned in the Quran as well so I believe he did exist.

{!#%@} you're quibbles.

your :P

No, you ARE quibbles. Purely and completely.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:12 am

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Kamil wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:I don't care if Jesus is the guy doing my lawn. Your magic man never happened.


but he shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.

No, it proves your a gullible ass.

:jaded: you're

That's to help you meet the days quota.
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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:13 am

MattMVS7 wrote:How do you know Jesus never existed?
Define the Jesus you are claiming is real. Baby steps son. Baby steps. :lol:

MattMVS7 wrote:I would say at the very least a man named Jesus existed.
Jesus is not an Aramaic name as there is no hard "J". Try harder next time by reading some basic history.

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:17 am

MattMVS7 wrote:but he (Jesus) shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.


1) Which Jesus? The imaginary one from literature or the imaginary one in advertisements for Christianity?
2) We have linked you to visions of Allah. You are just lying again.
:lol:

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Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Shen1986 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:59 am

Kamil wrote:but he shows up in Near Death Experiences all the time and Muhammad doesn't and neither does Buddha or others so it proves he did exist.


I already linked to NDEs where Buddha or Muhammed appeared. Also just a quick google search gives you this a NDE where Muhammed and even Buddha were:

Suleman (2004) then began to identify the different messengers. She
started with the ‘‘lone and bearded’’ (p. 61) prophet Noah and then
continued with the pairs of the prophet Moses with Jesus, a crosslegged
Buddha next to Lord Krishna, and finally the prophet
Muhammad with Hazrat Ali, his son-in-law and successor. In a
somewhat surprising association, both to Suleman herself (p. 61) and
from the point of view of Muslim and Christian theologians, next to the
prophet Muhammad was the Virgin Mary.
Coming out of the luminous form of the prophet Muhammad was the
luminous face of Ali, whom Suleman referred to as ‘‘my Beloved Lord’’
(p. 62). This association would be of no surprise to Sufis because Ali,
the son-in-law and cousin of the Prophet, is considered the head and
source of 40 of the 41 tariqats, or orders of Sufism. Nor would it be
surprising to Muslim scholars, for a well-known hadith (tradition) of
the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, states: ‘‘I am the city of
knowledge and Ali is the door to that city.’’ Furthermore, in Shia
Islam, Ali is a very central figure, being the only authentic successor of
the Prophet Muhammad and the first imam.
Many non-Muslims reading Suleman’s account have concluded that
it is a substantial account of a Muslim NDE


Source: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67 ... 0Kreps.pdf

Also according to the pdf. Mohammed appears in their NDEs not often but he does but there is no Jesus. So its what you would expect from a Muslim that he will see more of his religion then the religion of Christians and it even happens again NDEs are cultural based:

In brief, there are many similarities in these experiences with
Western NDEs but some differences. For example, I have not come
across any Muslims who have undergone a life review. Nor, of course,
did any of them meet with Jesus. On the other hand, very few have
met with the Prophet Muhammad, either.


Source: https://digital.library.unt.edu/ark:/67 ... 0Kreps.pdf
"Death Dies Hard." - Deathstars.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26367
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:34 am

Shen1986 wrote: I already linked to NDEs where Buddha or Muhammed appeared. Also just a quick google search gives you this a NDE where Muhammed and even Buddha were


Hi Shen. I hope you are doing well.

May I add that Kamil aka Matt MSV7 has already been informed of the restrictions of ethno-semantic "cheating". He knows accounts concerning visions during the Western European expression "Near Death Experience" are not going to get a lot of non-western visions of characters from non western fictional characters.

Secondly, Matt MVS7 has not once explained why people can't have visions of familiar fictional characters from their own cultural background. If I see Homer Simpson in a dream, it does not mean Homer Simpson is real.
:D

Kamil
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Posts: 113
Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2017 2:44 am

Re: Do you believe this man?

Postby Kamil » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:24 pm

Sean Robert Myers wrote:
Shen1986 wrote: I already linked to NDEs where Buddha or Muhammed appeared. Also just a quick google search gives you this a NDE where Muhammed and even Buddha were


Hi Shen. I hope you are doing well.

May I add that Kamil aka Matt MSV7 has already been informed of the restrictions of ethno-semantic "cheating". He knows accounts concerning visions during the Western European expression "Near Death Experience" are not going to get a lot of non-western visions of characters from non western fictional characters.


Secondly, Matt MVS7 has not once explained why people can't have visions of familiar fictional characters from their own cultural background. If I see Homer Simpson in a dream, it does not mean Homer Simpson is real.
:D



Matthew Ellard aka Sean Robert Myers you have to realize that NDEs are not the same as dreams. Dreams are all over the place and most of the time things don't make sense. However, NDEs do make sense, they are lucid etc. Also, many people see consistent imagery: in hell they see demons attacking them with and saying "we got you now"

In heaven they see bright lights, sometimes Jesus, and some other reports claim other deities are seen like the link Shen posted. Also have a look at Dr. Penny Sartori, she has some amazing NDE cases. One of them a man recovers from cerebral palsy. Another one a man actually sees what is going on in great detail ex: while he is "dead" in the hospital he sees a woman with blonde hair looking at him from behind curtains in fear. He then sees a thermometer they use on him is pink. Then he sees Jesus. There is also a recent one in Greece where a woman is having an operation and from an OBE sees a doctor with red hair enter the room and she can verify everything that was said. That does not sound like a dream to me.


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