call for debaters

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Re: call for debaters

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:36 am

There's another source. This subforum holds enough horse p...ower to built a mansion with it. :-P
Hi, Io the lurker.

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No Formal Debate

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:00 am

What I don't get is how I'm meant to find an independent moderator who knows Richard Crist's specific "Truth Engine" moderation rules, that no one has used before apart from Richard Crist? :D

I also think it's a little bit odd that Richard ignores our Skeptic Society's motto "Promoting Science and critical thinking" by asking us to replace our 2000 year old evolved, frame work or peer reviewed assessment with something he needs for his book. :D

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Re: call for debaters

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:53 am

TEnginist wrote: I'd like to see good arguments on both sides, but I think that the formality of the rules can inhibit creativity.

How so? Creativity cannot be confined....you find it within the rules provided. Sounds like an excuse to me...........

.........and likewise for Matt............except Matt stated a good reason: having to find a moderator.

A transparent excuse vs a reasonable concern. Looks like Matt is ahead by one already.
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Re: call for debaters

Postby Poodle » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:57 am

"I designed the Truth Engine entirely by myself" ... Dr. Richard Crist

That a cracking start for a collaborative project. :D

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Re: call for debaters

Postby JO 753 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:45 pm

Wut happened to the moderated debate?

Were you bilding a new arena & then a Teamsterz strike happened?
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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:38 pm

JO 753 wrote:Wut happened to the moderated debate?
Well, I challenged Richard Crist to have a formal debate here but he insisted that we use his "Truth Engine" method.

The first problem is that there is not such thing as the "Truth Engine" method. The second problem is that I can't find an independent moderator who knows the "Truth-Engine" method, as it doesn't exist. Richard Crist was going to be both moderator and debater and make rules up as he went. :D

The third problem was that Richard Crist refused to write down his alternative hypothesis to explain all the facts. In essence, you can't have a formal debate for two alternative hypotheses if one team won't state what their alternative hypothesis is.

The fourth reason was that Richard Crist was not going to provide any evidence and stated we had to read his book for "his facts". He was simply trying to plug his book, which even you and I didn't bother reading.

The fifth reason, was Richard Crist was a bit lazy and hadn't done any research but published a book anyway, yet I kept quoting reports and facts he was unaware of. Richard would have to do some actual research work and modify his book to incorporate the facts.

Finally, I think Richard worked out I had my paws on experiments, where inversion layers gave false ground radar readings which disappeared when an aircraft flew through the inversion layer and his entire sole remaining evidence, was his gut-feeling that couldn't happen.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby TEnginist » Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:11 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
JO 753 wrote:Wut happened to the moderated debate?
Well, I challenged Richard Crist to have a formal debate here but he insisted that we use his "Truth Engine" method.

But you challenged JO to the debate:
OK. Jo 753. Do you want to debate on Richard Crist's behalf?


Anyway,
The first problem is that there is not such thing as the "Truth Engine" method.

Of course there is.

The second problem is that I can't find an independent moderator who knows the "Truth-Engine" method,

It's silly to imply that no one could learn the simple method.

as it doesn't exist.

Of course it exists.

Richard Crist was going to be both moderator and debater

Of course I wasn't.

and make rules up as he went. :D

There might've been a little bit of experimentation--it's a new method. So what? :D

The third problem was that Richard Crist refused to write down his alternative hypothesis to explain all the facts.

Of course you don't begin a debate by presenting an entire account of your point of view, complete with all your evidence and every response to every objection; if you did, there'd be no reason for a debate--all these things come out in the debate. A great debate can begin with a simple sentence.

you can't have a formal debate for two alternative hypotheses if one team won't state what their alternative hypothesis is.

I never said I wanted to participate in a formal debate. I have no interest in formal debates. Anyway I did state my claim, briefly, and of course that's all that's required in a debate. (And I said I'd put my chapter up on the web.)

The fourth reason was that Richard Crist was not going to provide any evidence

Of course I provided what I take to be evidence and said I'd put my chapter up on the web.

and stated we had to read his book for "his facts".

Of course, if you wanted to see "my" facts, you would've had to read my book; but I gave my book away on Amazon, for free, for five days. But the facts in these cases are available all over the place. There was no reason to insist on seeing "my" facts.

He was simply trying to plug his book

Uncharitably false. I didn't expect to sell a single book, and didn't give it a second thought. I wanted to find debaters for a UFO debate show.

The fifth reason, was Richard Crist was a bit lazy and hadn't done any research

Uncharitably false.

I kept quoting reports and facts he was unaware of.

There's some truth in that--I hadn't used the Bluebook report (but I used Ruppelt's book).

Richard would have to ... modify his book to incorporate the facts.

That's how the Truth Engine method works.

Finally, I think Richard worked out I had my paws on experiments, where inversion layers ... disappeared when an aircraft flew through the inversion layer and his entire sole remaining evidence, was his gut-feeling that couldn't happen.

I felt it couldn't happen, but would've wanted to hear more about it--if your debate style wasn't so utterly insufferable, I would've pursued it.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:09 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:The first problem is that there is not such thing as the "Truth Engine" method.
TEnginist wrote:Of course there is.
Where on your website are the rules for a "Truth Engine" debate? Link us.


Matthew Ellard wrote:The second problem is that I can't find an independent moderator who knows the "Truth-Engine" method, which doesn't exist,
TEnginist wrote:It's silly to imply that no one could learn the simple method.
What simple method? Where on your website are the rules for a "Truth Engine" debate? Link us.


Matthew Ellard wrote:and make rules up as he went. :D
TEnginist wrote:There might've been a little bit of experimentation--it's a new method. So what?
Where on your website are the rules for a "Truth Engine" debate? Link us.


Matthew Ellard wrote:The third problem was that Richard Crist refused to write down his alternative hypothesis to explain all the facts.
TEnginist wrote:Of course you don't begin a debate by presenting an entire account of your point of view,
Yes you do. It's the alternative hypotheses that are being debated. That's what you are debating, otherwise you are mutually exploring.


Matthew Ellard wrote:you can't have a formal debate for two alternative hypotheses if one team won't state what their alternative hypothesis is.
TEnginist wrote:I never said I wanted to participate in a formal debate.
TEnginist titled this tread and wrote wrote:"call for debaters"
Why didn't you write "Call for people to use Truth Engine Method"?


Matthew Ellard wrote:The fourth reason was that Richard Crist was not going to provide any evidence
TEnginist wrote: Of course I provided what I take to be evidence and said I'd put my chapter up on the web.
Well post your evidence......I have been waiting for more than a month and Jo 753 hasn't read your book either.

TEnginist wrote: but I gave my book away on Amazon, for free,
Only one person here has Kindle. Just post your evidence. You own the copyright. You post it.

Matthew Ellard wrote:Finally, I think Richard worked out I had my paws on experiments, where inversion layers ... disappeared when an aircraft flew through the inversion layer and his entire sole remaining evidence, was his gut-feeling that couldn't happen.
TEnginist wrote: I felt it couldn't happen, -
......or you could have done some basic research to see it was common......

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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
TEnginist wrote: but I gave my book away on Amazon, for free,

Only one person here has Kindle.


I've read his book. And I don't have a kindle. I read it on my iPad.

There is a free app that will enable you to read kindle ebooks on almost any device, windows, android, apple, etc.

Not having a kindle device is a bad excuse for not having read the book.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:12 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:. . . Richard Crist was a bit lazy and hadn't done any research but published a book anyway, . . .


If you had read the book, you would know that is blatantly false.

I strongly recommend you retract that false allegation, Matthew.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby JO 753 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:19 am

Really, I think Austin saw storm cloudz gathering on the horizon for you, Matt. It woud hav been a continuation uv the debate here in wich you hav repeatedly ignored major aspects uv the story.
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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:57 am

Having read the book, there are some things in it that concern me. Some of the logical inferences do not seem justifiable.

Should I bring that up here in this thread or wait for the "debate"?

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Re: call for debaters

Postby TEnginist » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:15 pm

xouper wrote:Having read the book, there are some things in it that concern me. Some of the logical inferences do not seem justifiable.

Should I bring that up here in this thread or wait for the "debate"?

I hope you bring it up here, xouper. That "debate" may never happen!

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:10 pm

xouper wrote: Not having a kindle device is a bad excuse for not having read the book.

Again, I suggest you {!#%@} off. Either Richard Christ is going to present his evidence on the forum or he isn't. I don't want to go finding applications to read and promote his book when he can simply post his evidence here.

He came here to promote his book. Either he is going to present the evidence on the forum, that he made his claim, or he isn't.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:15 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:. . . Richard Crist was a bit lazy and hadn't done any research but published a book anyway, . . .
xouper wrote: If you had read the book, you would know that is blatantly false.

I strongly recommend you retract that false allegation, Matthew.
Richard Christ admitted in clear language that he didn't bother reading the official Blue book report into the Washington DC flap. He is arguing against that report or did you forget that on purpose again. :lol:
Richard Crist wrote:.There's some truth in that--I hadn't used the Bluebook report (but I used Ruppelt's book).

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:24 pm

xouper wrote:Should I bring that up here in this thread or wait for the "debate"?
There is no debate. Richard Christ refused an offer for a formal debate and instead demanded we use his "Truth Engine Method"

Did you bother to read anything on his website?

"The founders of the Truth Engine are helping to bring, finally, into full being what is to be the Earth’s most highly-evolved creature: a super-intelligence with a pure heart who will vastly accelerate the resolution of humanity’s controversies, thus providing us with extraordinary knowledge of what’s true, what’s good and what’s beautiful, and thereby bestowing upon us a paradise on Earth.

But how is it possible that the Truth Engine builders can help bring into being a super-intelligence? They can do it by harnessing the power of synergy: by creating forums, by organizing, and participating in, myriad public debates about all our controversial issues, by coordinating these debates with amendable books of best arguments (pro and con) called Truth-Engine books (the books are used to guide the debates, and the debates inspire changes to the books), and by agreeing to use but one set of rules,"
http://www.truthenginebook.com/

Harnessing "Synergy" to create a "super being" is not a debate, in case you don't know what a "debate" is.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:33 pm

JO 753 wrote:Really, I think Austin saw storm cloudz gathering on the horizon for you, .
No Jo 753. Richard Crist refused to have a formal debate. There was nothing for Austin to do.

Do I need you to draw pictures for you, so you understand that?
:lol:

JO 753 wrote:Matt. It woud hav been a continuation uv the debate here in wich you hav repeatedly ignored major aspects uv the story
Firstly, you admitted you didn't bother to read Richard Crist's book and thus his evidence for his "alien story" yourself. Secondly, you didn't even know the official Blue Book report on Washington DC existed until I informed you and Richard Christ. Thirdly, neither you or Richard Christ were aware that the false readings had been ongoing for some months until I informed you. :lol:

Fourthly, neither you or Richard Crist have set out your working hypothesis to allow any debate to occur despite being asked to do so eight times. You two will never do that because you can't supply any facts that it "was aliens". :lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:38 pm

TEnginist wrote: I hope you bring it up here, xouper. That "debate" may never happen!

I think that Xouper has made it clear, and, as he is the only person here to read your book, that he will accept your "Truth Engine Method" offer and you two can knock yourselves out on the "Truth Engine" UFO fan website modifying articles in a book that you sell for profit. :lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby TEnginist » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:00 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:he is the only person here to read your book

43 people downloaded my free book.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:03 pm

The religious mind set

Christian : "You atheists are wrong. Evolution is not true."
Skeptic : "Have you ever read a book on evolution?"
Christian : "No"

Richard Crist & Jo 753 : "The official report on the Washington DC flap is not true"
Skeptic : "Have you actually read the official Blue book report on Washington DC"
Richard Crist & Jo 753 : "No"

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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:03 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
xouper wrote:Should I bring that up here in this thread or wait for the "debate"?

There is no debate.


OK.

I was just asking to make sure. There may have been things going on behind the scene (by PM) that I was not privy to. No need to get your panties all in a twist, Matthew.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
TEnginist wrote: I hope you bring it up here, xouper. That "debate" may never happen!

I think that Xouper has made it clear, and, as he is the only person here to read your book, that he will accept your "Truth Engine Method" offer . . .


I did not accept any such offer.

I merely offered to discuss some issues here in this thread. Nothing more.

WTF is the matter with your reading comprehension these days? Assume much?


Matthew Ellard wrote:
xouper wrote: Not having a kindle device is a bad excuse for not having read the book.

Again, I suggest you {!#%@} off.


No.

I have just as much right to be here as you do, Matthew.

And I stand by my observation.


Matthew Ellard wrote:I don't want to go finding applications to read and promote his book when he can simply post his evidence here.


Oh, you poor little crybaby.


Matthew Ellard wrote:He came here to promote his book.


And then he gave it away for free to anyone here on the forum who wanted one.

That certainly put a lot of money in his pocket.

Your accusation is irrational and pathetic, Matthew.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
xouper wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:. . . Richard Crist was a bit lazy and hadn't done any research but published a book anyway, . . .

If you had read the book, you would know that is blatantly false. I strongly recommend you retract that false allegation, Matthew.

Richard Christ admitted in clear language that he didn't bother reading the official Blue book report into the Washington DC flap.


So what.

You claimed he did not do ANY  research.

That is clearly a false allegation, Matthew, and as a lawyer you know damn well it's false.

Keep it up, Matthew, and that will just add further evidence of malice on your part.

This is not a game, Matthew.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:05 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:he (Xouper) is the only person here to read your book
TEnginist wrote:43 people downloaded my free book.
Name the other members here who downloaded it. :lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote: I think that Xouper has made it clear, and, as he is the only person here to read your book, that he will accept your "Truth Engine Method" offer . . .
xouper wrote: I did not accept any such offer.

Now think really hard....if Richard Crist is not going to debate here, is not going to post his evidence here and is only going to use his "Truth Engine Method"......then how are you going to debate him on some of his claims on our forum.

What do you think I have been saying for the last three pages?
:lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:14 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:I don't want to go finding applications to read and promote his book when he can simply post his evidence here.
xouper wrote:Oh, you poor little crybaby.

"Here is a five hour You Tube that explains my position". :lol:

Isn't it fantastic that you now accept You tubes and personal books as evidence from people who refuse to actually write down their claims and evidence are, on the forum they made their claims.

Salomed would be proud of you.
:lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:34 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
TEnginist wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:he (Xouper) is the only person here to read your book

43 people downloaded my free book.

Name the other members here who downloaded it.


As a lawyer, shirley you know he does not have permission to do that.


Matthew Ellard wrote:
xouper wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:I think that Xouper has made it clear, and, as he is the only person here to read your book, that he will accept your "Truth Engine Method" offer . . .

I did not accept any such offer.

Now think really hard....if Richard Crist is not going to debate here, is not going to post his evidence here and is only going to use his "Truth Engine Method"......then how are you going to debate him on some of his claims on our forum.


I am not going to "debate" him. We are simply going to discuss some issues I have with his book. Nothing more.

Not everything on this forum needs to be confrontational, Matthew.


Matthew Ellard wrote:Isn't it fantastic that you now accept You tubes and personal books as evidence from people who refuse to actually write down their claims and evidence are, on the forum they made their claims.


Now you are just being stoopid.

I have done none of what you accuse me of doing.

Where do you get this {!#%@}, Matthew? Head up your ass much? Is this how they taught you to behave in law school?

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:43 pm

xouper wrote:As a lawyer, shirley you know he does not have permission to do that.
As a lawyer I read his website where he owns all copyright, including the copyright of anyone who contributes to his book.

I have already clearly stated that. Did you forget on purpose?


"Note that all submissions will become the property of the Truth Engine."
http://www.truthenginebook.com/logos.html

Try harder next time. :lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby xouper » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:51 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
xouper wrote:As a lawyer, shirley you know he does not have permission to do that.

As a lawyer I read his website where he owns all copyright, including the copyright of anyone who contributes to his book.

I have already clearly stated that. Did you forget on purpose?

"Note that all submissions will become the property of the Truth Engine."
http://www.truthenginebook.com/logos.html

Try harder next time. :lol:


The customers who downloaded his book from amazon did not "contribute" to his book.

He still does not have permission to post any customer's name here.

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:59 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Name the other members here who downloaded it.
xouper wrote:As a lawyer, shirley you know he does not have permission to do that.
It's a forum, you idiot. He can ask.

xouper wrote:I am not going to "debate" him.
Of course you won't. You're trolling. :lol:

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Re: call for debaters

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:11 am

Locking this thread for a cooling-off period. Combatants are to find a blackboard and write "Civility" on it 100 times.
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