New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

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Kamil
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New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Kamil » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:59 pm

Often times, NDEs [near death experiences] sound quite compelling, and some OBEs [out of body experiences] sound very compelling. The thing is that they are anecdotes, and so far, no one has fully demonstrated that they are real. An objective measure would be to place targets in hospital rooms and see if patients during their OBEs can have them. People who believe in OBEs will always say, “well the brain was dead, it couldn’t have picked up information, and it sure as hell couldn’t have generated a whole classic realer than real NDE”. A few things that don’t make sense though about NDEs are:
1) How does a soul which is not supposed to be physical pick up light and sound, but also go through walls and ceilings? What would be the point of a creator giving us ears or eyes if we could see and hear with souls? There has also been an inconsistency in OBEs. For example, the vast majority of people say they float through objects, while Howard Storm (atheist who became a reverend after his NDE) claimed he was walking, and could feel the cold floor during his OBE, which is inconsistent.
2) NDEs can happen when a person is nowhere near death, there are cases of them occurring when someone jumped off of a bridge or when someone got into a near car accident.
3) Rarely, but sometimes, there are documented inconsistencies during the NDE. For example, very rarely, but once in a while, people will have NDEs with live relatives, or they will have NDEs telling them things about the future that don’t end up taking place.
4) Evidence of the brain when it gets damaged seems to suggest that souls don’t exist.

Now here is my question. In recent years and even months, many people who research NDEs will take cases like a person having an NDE when they aren’t anywhere near death and say “well, the fact that this person who jumped off a bridge had an NDE when they weren’t near death proves that hypoxia or lack of oxygen cannot be the cause for NDEs. Then they say that the recent rat experiment where a doctor took rats near death and saw their brain activity spike is not relevant because when someone who is not near death has these, their brain would not have these spikes, yet they have NDEs. They also interview NDErs who also tried ketamine and DMT and claim that the drugs are no where near as “real” as the near death experiences were. Then they claim there is no evidence that the brain releases DMT. Then finally, we have neurosurgeons like Eben Alexander and Peter Fenwick who criticize neurosurgeons against NDEs and will always use the “but the brain can’t create that kind of imagery in those situations” argument, and that studies show that most cardiac arrest patients who had NDEs didn’t in fact have less oxygen in their brains than normal. Would you say that even if it was true that the oxygen, hypoxia, anoxia, and ketamine/DMT explanations were not true, that it would mean NDEs are? It seems like they don’t make sense if you look at them on their own, but there doesn’t seem to be a sufficient scientific explanation for them at the moment. Would you still think they were not real, even if all the current science explanations failed?

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NDE trolling by Matt MSV7

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:05 pm

Matt MSV7 using the Kamil sockpuppet wrote: NDEs [near death experiences] sound quite compelling, and some OBEs [out of body experiences] sound very compelling. The thing is that they are anecdotes, and so far, no one has fully demonstrated that they are real. An objective measure would be to.........


The objective measure would be to first set out a testable scientific hypothesis for paranormal OBEs.

We have now asked you twenty times to set out a hypothesis, as we are aware that this is an impossibility due to the conflicting claims as to what a paranormal NDE or OBE actually is.

You cannot perform any experiments without having first establish the hypothesis being tested. You have been told this twenty times.


You are simply trolling again. Try a religious forum

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby bobbo_the_Pragmatist » Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:28 pm

Of course both are real. What they "mean" or actually consist of varies quite a lot. I had one OBE. Very realistic, very subjectively real. Sadly, all I did was float above my girl friend and me as we were making love. No secret messages or stock market tips. Just a visual/spacial relationship. alcohol/love/hormones. A great combo.
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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Aug 11, 2017 4:55 am

Could we maybe lump all these nearly-exactly-the-same NDE questions into one thread?! There's really no need to start a new topic for what amounts to the same discussion.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:08 am

We could set a Korean fan on it before it spontaneously combusts...
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:14 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:Could we maybe lump all these nearly-exactly-the-same NDE questions into one thread?! There's really no need to start a new topic for what amounts to the same discussion.


This is why Matt MSV7 was banned from the Rational skeptic forum. "Thread starter". He simply starts new threads so he can copy and paste in the rubbish he posted in the previous thread.

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Confidencia » Fri Aug 11, 2017 11:32 am

Kamil wrote:Often times, NDEs [near death experiences] sound quite compelling, and some OBEs [out of body experiences] sound very compelling. The thing is that they are anecdotes, and so far, no one has fully demonstrated that they are real. An objective measure would be to place targets in hospital rooms and see if patients during their OBEs can have them. People who believe in OBEs will always say, “well the brain was dead, it couldn’t have picked up information, and it sure as hell couldn’t have generated a whole classic realer than real NDE”. A few things that don’t make sense though about NDEs are:
1) How does a soul which is not supposed to be physical pick up light and sound, but also go through walls and ceilings? What would be the point of a creator giving us ears or eyes if we could see and hear with souls? There has also been an inconsistency in OBEs. For example, the vast majority of people say they float through objects, while Howard Storm (atheist who became a reverend after his NDE) claimed he was walking, and could feel the cold floor during his OBE, which is inconsistent.
2) NDEs can happen when a person is nowhere near death, there are cases of them occurring when someone jumped off of a bridge or when someone got into a near car accident.
3) Rarely, but sometimes, there are documented inconsistencies during the NDE. For example, very rarely, but once in a while, people will have NDEs with live relatives, or they will have NDEs telling them things about the future that don’t end up taking place.
4) Evidence of the brain when it gets damaged seems to suggest that souls don’t exist.

Now here is my question. In recent years and even months, many people who research NDEs will take cases like a person having an NDE when they aren’t anywhere near death and say “well, the fact that this person who jumped off a bridge had an NDE when they weren’t near death proves that hypoxia or lack of oxygen cannot be the cause for NDEs. Then they say that the recent rat experiment where a doctor took rats near death and saw their brain activity spike is not relevant because when someone who is not near death has these, their brain would not have these spikes, yet they have NDEs. They also interview NDErs who also tried ketamine and DMT and claim that the drugs are no where near as “real” as the near death experiences were. Then they claim there is no evidence that the brain releases DMT. Then finally, we have neurosurgeons like Eben Alexander and Peter Fenwick who criticize neurosurgeons against NDEs and will always use the “but the brain can’t create that kind of imagery in those situations” argument, and that studies show that most cardiac arrest patients who had NDEs didn’t in fact have less oxygen in their brains than normal. Would you say that even if it was true that the oxygen, hypoxia, anoxia, and ketamine/DMT explanations were not true, that it would mean NDEs are? It seems like they don’t make sense if you look at them on their own, but there doesn’t seem to be a sufficient scientific explanation for them at the moment. Would you still think they were not real, even if all the current science explanations failed?


Why do you keep asking the same questions? It's as if you want the justification and approval for your belief in yourself whilst making out you are skeptic about it. Just do the right thing and conduct a proper investigation. All knowledge is ignorance so whatever you are taking from the others merely shows that you are ignorant of your own ignorance. You must start with yourself by denying it all.

You don't know what you are, you don't know how you got here, you cannot trust your thoughts and feelings so you have no choice but to go to the root which is obviously in you. What can I or anybody else here tell you about your own experience? Experience is not transferable yet it is all inclusive. Despite what the others are saying it is the same for them. Only most people here are still in their infancy and will continue to suck on the teat of stupidity even when faced with the undeniable.

If you want answers to the questions science cannot provide then you must go within and accept the fact that you do not know. You can only know what it is not and that is basically all that is known. You are asking people who haven't a clue themselves and fail to see you are going around in a circle, arriving at the same point you started at.

Truth is a solitary mission, science cannot help you here. You must brave the dogs and go it alone.

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:34 pm

I mean, it's still basically the same discussion on the same topic originating from the same member.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:11 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:I mean, it's still basically the same discussion on the same topic originating from the same member.
Matt MSV7 has now had four sock puppets posting the same NDE posts he first wrote two years ago. It's all the same shaggy dog story

"If paranormal NDEs are real, then their must be a god, and therefore Matt MSV7 can look forward to a happy afterlife in heaven, and thus start composing music again." His running gag is that he has never stopped loading up his "music compositions" on children's forums and You-tube..

He simply trolls adult forums with this theme before going back to troll children's forums with his compositions

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 1:19 am

Confidencia wrote:Why do you keep asking the same questions?
"Kamil" aka "Omniverse" is a well known 28 year old American ,child pervert, called Matt MSV7. He makes music You-tube videos for children's video games and uses these to troll children's forums. He also trolls skeptic forums threatening to commit suicide.

Matt's music for Zelda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbhsPWrtjM

Matt threatens to commit suicide unless skeptics pay him attention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5DyeMcG8o

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Kamil » Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:07 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote:Why do you keep asking the same questions?
"Kamil" aka "Omniverse" is a well known 28 year old American ,child pervert, called Matt MSV7. He makes music You-tube videos for children's video games and uses these to troll children's forums. He also trolls skeptic forums threatening to commit suicide.

Matt's music for Zelda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbhsPWrtjM

Matt threatens to commit suicide unless skeptics pay him attention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5DyeMcG8o


Ok Matthew, you always get on me about proving things, why don't you prove this. Demonstrate that this account has any correlation to those other accounts. All you are doing is jumping to conclusions and I have no idea how you even come to these conclusions.

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Confidencia » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:52 pm

Kamil wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Confidencia wrote:Why do you keep asking the same questions?
"Kamil" aka "Omniverse" is a well known 28 year old American ,child pervert, called Matt MSV7. He makes music You-tube videos for children's video games and uses these to troll children's forums. He also trolls skeptic forums threatening to commit suicide.

Matt's music for Zelda
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHbhsPWrtjM

Matt threatens to commit suicide unless skeptics pay him attention
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ng5DyeMcG8o


Ok Matthew, you always get on me about proving things, why don't you prove this. Demonstrate that this account has any correlation to those other accounts. All you are doing is jumping to conclusions and I have no idea how you even come to these conclusions.


He's a parrot, he just likes the phonetic sound that the words proof and evidence make.

Upload a nipple, that might have a soothing effect on him, :lol:

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:53 pm

Kamil wrote: Demonstrate that this account has any correlation to those other accounts. .

For Matt MSV7.jpg
:lol:

However the good news is that the troll Kamil aka Anthony aka Omniverse aka Matt MSV7 can now play with the troll Confidencia aka Shaka aka Clarifyit4me. :D
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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:12 am

Kamil wrote:Demonstrate that this account has any correlation to those other accounts.

I'll do it, I'll do it!

1. They have all posted on these forums.

I love low-hanging fruit....
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Confidencia » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:17 am

Gord wrote:
Kamil wrote:Demonstrate that this account has any correlation to those other accounts.

I'll do it, I'll do it!

1. They have all posted on these forums.

I love low-hanging fruit....


Me too Gord, they're easy to pick.

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:18 pm

Low-hanging? That one had already fallen off the tree and been gnawed on by wild animals. :P
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Gord » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:36 pm

Them's the lowest!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: NDE trolling by Matt MSV7

Postby Kamil » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:21 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matt MSV7 using the Kamil sockpuppet wrote: NDEs [near death experiences] sound quite compelling, and some OBEs [out of body experiences] sound very compelling. The thing is that they are anecdotes, and so far, no one has fully demonstrated that they are real. An objective measure would be to.........


The objective measure would be to first set out a testable scientific hypothesis for paranormal OBEs.

We have now asked you twenty times to set out a hypothesis, as we are aware that this is an impossibility due to the conflicting claims as to what a paranormal NDE or OBE actually is.

You cannot perform any experiments without having first establish the hypothesis being tested. You have been told this twenty times.


You are simply trolling again. Try a religious forum


ok then, with all of this disrespect Ellard please delete my account. I don't want to talk to people like you who are rude, condescending, and incorrect. I have posted a lot about NDEs but this OP is not me and either is that other Matt you speak of. Please, get me off this site! I don't feel like getting these responses from you where all you do is accuse me of things. You are rational in most areas but not here, you are being very closed minded and rude. Again, delete my account. Thanks

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Re: NDE trolling by Matt MSV7

Postby Matthew Ellard » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:12 am

Kamil wrote: ok then, with all of this disrespect Ellard please delete my account.

1) I am not the moderator and I do not delete accounts
2) All you have to do is stop posting. (But you won't do that Matt MSV7. You will simply start a new sock puppet.)

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Gord » Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:52 am

I'll do it!

Image
There you go, all deleted and stuff.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

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Re: New question I came across about NDEs any thoughts?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:06 am

I don't think that's what Matt MSV7's keyboard looks like Gord. I think it looks more like this........
BS.jpg
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