The Shroud Of Turin

PSI, Mediums, Ghosts, UFOs, Things That Go Bump In The Night
User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:55 am

Poodle wrote:I got insulting?


You know what your first line was to me. That kind of language is insulting.

What do you think you're doing every time you completely ignore everything anyone says to you?


I only am interested in replying to people in conversation. It is a two way thing. You can easily see I have had many constructive conversations here, where I have responded and been responded to. I don't do snide, I certainly don't do aggression, snide and threat, but I have had a fair bit of that here.

Here's what you posted to Nikki above ..." Please stop talking to me". It's there - you can scroll back and see it. If you're prepared to issue such crybaby demands, don't be too surprised when someone paraphrases your breath-holding, foot-stamping efforts.


That was a response to her saying she finds me as frustrating as hell. I dont want to frustrate anyone, clearly I do.

Your problem is that you take no notice of what's being said in those responses.


I agree. If I scan the post and it seems aggressive I just wont read it.


To expect such things after your prolonged demonstration of intransigence makes you "the rudest and most ignorant person I've come across for a long time" - exactly what I said in the previous post.


I dont care what you think of me:) You are just text on a screen, as I am to you. I would care what you say to me, were it part of a conversation not your ego's defences. I know I am a kind and polite person to real people. I have nothing to prove to you. I would simply like you to proove something, which you havent done.
If you did that, I would be so pleasantly surprised that I would immediately revert to the very nice, friendly, cool character for which I am famous throughout the universe.


Poodle, I will never think you friendly or cool and certainly not nice. I may well be mistaken about this as you are about me, but so what? Who cares? It is an internet forum where egos clash and dogma is pushed, it isn't freinds having fun.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:54 pm

Ah, that's better.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8245
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:26 pm

salomed wrote:... blurb...

Ah - you refer to the fact that I told you to piss off. Would you now like to tell the forum WHY I told you that?

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:39 pm

The Turd of Turin is so obviously a fraud it's embarrassing that people would buy into it. Except for the fact that people are so obviously fraud so much of the time.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:20 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Ah, that's better.

Making 'small talk'? - I did so too. Very peaceful, ain't it. :lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:15 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Ah, that's better.

Making 'small talk'? - I did so too. Very peaceful, ain't it. :lol:

Nope, I put "somebody" on ignore.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:01 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Ah, that's better.

Making 'small talk'? - I did so too. Very peaceful, ain't it. :lol:

Nope, I put "somebody" on ignore.

That's what I meant. It compacts nicely. :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
True Skeptic
Posts: 10535
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby OlegTheBatty » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:40 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The Turd of Turin is so obviously a fraud it's embarrassing that people would buy into it. Except for the fact that people are so obviously fraud so much of the time.


The Shroud of Turin is an obsession only to people who are full of sheet.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:21 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The Turd of Turin is so obviously a fraud it's embarrassing that people would buy into it. Except for the fact that people are so obviously fraud so much of the time.


The Shroud of Turin is an obsession only to people who are full of sheet.

It's a Klan thing.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:45 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
OlegTheBatty wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:The Turd of Turin is so obviously a fraud it's embarrassing that people would buy into it. Except for the fact that people are so obviously fraud so much of the time.


The Shroud of Turin is an obsession only to people who are full of sheet.

It's a Klan thing.

A cover for selfishness and control freakerism.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:13 am

OlegTheBatty wrote:I think I will avoid making blanket statements about the Shroud of Turin.

The Shroud of Turin is an obsession only to people who are full of sheet.

Between those two statements, I think you've neatly put this topic to bed.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29477
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gord » Sun Jul 16, 2017 1:28 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Ah, that's better.

Making 'small talk'? - I did so too. Very peaceful, ain't it. :lol:

Nope, I put "somebody" on ignore.

What took you so long??
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:06 pm

Gord wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Ah, that's better.

Making 'small talk'? - I did so too. Very peaceful, ain't it. :lol:

Nope, I put "somebody" on ignore.

What took you so long??

Who said that?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26786
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:55 pm

salomed wrote:What do you think?
Again, you show your complete lack of knowledge about both science and mathematics.

Firstly, the painted image of Jesus on the medieval shroud is a two dimensional image. You cannot obtain this same image by wrapping a cloth and imprinting it, around a three dimensional object.

Secondly, you state the scientific hypothesis, supported by evidence, that the shroud is a forged medieval relic, not true yet don't offer your implied alternative hypothesis, that the mythical Jesus magically left an body print on a death shroud. ....because "god did it".
:lol:

User avatar
ElectricMonk
Persistent Poster
Posts: 3313
Joined: Thu Mar 26, 2015 6:21 pm
Custom Title: His Beatitude

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby ElectricMonk » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:00 am

It has long been the position of the Catholic Church that, for a relic to be "real", it doesn't matter so much if it every was attached to / in contact with someone later deemed "holy", more important is the belief of the faithful that a relic is real, which gives it its miraculous powers of healing etc.
That is why there are a few tons of splinters of the Holy Cross (all real), and more bone parts of an apostle than you would find in an elephant's graveyard.
In this sense, the Shroud might well be "real".

In every other sense, it's not.
I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
Spoiler:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
- Douglas Adams

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29477
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gord » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:26 am

...well, it's a real piece of linen.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:23 am

ElectricMonk wrote:It has long been the position of the Catholic Church that, for a relic to be "real", it doesn't matter so much if it every was attached to / in contact with someone later deemed "holy", more important is the belief of the faithful that a relic is real, which gives it its miraculous powers of healing etc.
That is why there are a few tons of splinters of the Holy Cross (all real), and more bone parts of an apostle than you would find in an elephant's graveyard.
In this sense, the Shroud might well be "real".

In every other sense, it's not.

Outside Lourdes:

"Hey, lady! Want to buy the skull of John the Baptist?"

"I thought that was on display in some museum?"

"That's his adult skull. This is his skull when he was six years old."

"How much?"
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:09 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
salomed wrote:What do you think?
Again, you show your complete lack of knowledge about both science and mathematics.

Firstly, the painted image of Jesus on the medieval shroud is a two dimensional image. You cannot obtain this same image by wrapping a cloth and imprinting it, around a three dimensional object.


I think the physical evidence suggests it is not painted as does the proportionality.

Secondly, you state the scientific hypothesis, supported by evidence, that the shroud is a forged medieval relic, not true yet don't offer your implied alternative hypothesis, that the mythical Jesus magically left an body print on a death shroud. ....because "god did it". :lol:


Well one body of evidence, the C14, confirms the hypothesis that it is a medieval forgery. This body is contested, even by people on the teams that did it. It could be contamination from its countless holdings over the centuries. It could be contamination from the shroud being mended. these are all possibilities.

All of the other evidence I am aware of, such as the pollen, linen, weave seems to conclude that it comes from the levant in the in the first century.

But as I said in the OP, "Even as a medieval hoax, we do not know how it was done and we cannot replicate it - many have tried." and to me that is mysterious and fascinating.

We could not make it today, many have tried, nobody has.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8245
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:40 pm

The carbon dating result gave 1260-1390 AD with 95% confidence. That's the highest degree of confidence for any test at any time, as far as I'm aware. Any test result on any object using any technique could be called into question by anyone (and will be in the case of the shroud) - that does not override the confidence level of the carbon dating result. Give me a 19:1 bet in a one-horse race and I'll take it, any time.

(For salomed ... No, I do not know how the image was produced, but it's going to take a major world upheaval for me to agree that the carbon dating results were incorrect).

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:33 pm

Poodle wrote:The carbon dating result gave 1260-1390 AD with 95% confidence. That's the highest degree of confidence for any test at any time, as far as I'm aware. Any test result on any object using any technique could be called into question by anyone (and will be in the case of the shroud) - that does not override the confidence level of the carbon dating result. Give me a 19:1 bet in a one-horse race and I'll take it, any time.


One of the key tenets of skepticism is to try to prove your beliefs on subjects are wrong. If you cannot do this, you have good reason to belive your original belief. Have you done this with the C14 results?

For example: http://www.innoval.com/C14/

If you are happy with that, cool, move on. I still have doubts, as do many many much smarter people than me.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:51 pm

salomed wrote:If you are happy with that, cool, move on. I still have doubts, as do many many much smarter people than me.
People smarter than you? :lol:
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8245
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:10 pm

salomed wrote:... One of the key tenets of skepticism is to try to prove your beliefs on subjects are wrong. If you cannot do this, you have good reason to belive your original belief. Have you done this with the C14 results? ...

Indeed I have. I've read all, I believe, of the arguments ensuing from the carbon results not meeting predetermined expectations, and I have to say that they all look like boo hoo stories based upon maybes. But, as I'm certainly no expert in the techniques applied, I fall back on the majority viewpoint of those who are experts - and they state that the sampling and the testing was performed correctly. That doesn't guarantee that my viewpoint is correct - but it's a sight more likely to than picking out my favourite objection and running with it.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26786
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

debunk Shroud of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:24 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:Firstly, the painted image of Jesus on the medieval shroud is a two dimensional image. You cannot obtain this same image by wrapping a cloth and imprinting it, around a three dimensional object.
salomed wrote:I think the physical evidence suggests it is not painted as does the proportionality.
Remember? You can't do basic mathematics and have a very low IQ. If I were to wrap a cloth around a three dimensional head of Jesus the image on the cloth would look like this.
Jesus Turin proportion.jpg


Basic Mathematics lesson for Salomed.
Cylinder forumlas.jpg
So if we wrap a two dimensional cloth around a three dimensional head of Jesus (a cylinder) and then lay that cloth out, flat on a table, what will be the horizontal aspect distortion ratio?

(It's alright Salomed.....I know you can't follow basic maths) :lol:
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:40 pm

salomed wrote:I think the physical evidence suggests it is not painted as does the proportionality.
Actually, it's the proportions that suggest it was painted. Don't you read your own sources?
Nickell, in 1983, and Gregory S. Paul in 2010, separately state that the proportions of the image are not realistic. Paul stated that the face and proportions of the shroud image are impossible, that the figure cannot represent that of an actual person and that the posture was inconsistent. They argued that the forehead on the shroud is too small; and that the arms are too long and of different lengths and that the distance from the eyebrows to the top of the head is non-representative. They concluded that the features can be explained if the shroud is a work of a Gothic artist.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: debunk Shroud of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:45 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:Firstly, the painted image of Jesus on the medieval shroud is a two dimensional image. You cannot obtain this same image by wrapping a cloth and imprinting it, around a three dimensional object.
salomed wrote:I think the physical evidence suggests it is not painted as does the proportionality.
Remember? You can't do basic mathematics and have a very low IQ. If I were to wrap a cloth around a three dimensional head of Jesus the image on the cloth would look like this.
Jesus Turin proportion.jpg

Basic Mathematics lesson for Salomed.
Cylinder forumlas.jpgSo if we wrap a two dimensional cloth around a three dimensional head of Jesus (a cylinder) and then lay that cloth out, flat on a table, what will be the horizontal aspect distortion ratio?

(It's alright Salomed.....I know you can't follow basic maths) :lol:

Example: You can print this out, roll it into a cylinder, and put it inside a jar for a wicked cool Halloween prank. :mrgreen: If the Shroud had been wrapped around the head of an actual body, it would look something like this.
Image
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Austin Harper
Perpetual Poster
Posts: 4860
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2011 2:22 pm
Custom Title: Rock Chalk Astrohawk
Location: Detroit
Contact:

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Austin Harper » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:30 am

Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.
Dum ratio nos ducet, valebimus et multa bene geremus.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26786
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:26 am

Austin Harper wrote:Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.

Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29477
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gord » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:15 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.

Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D

Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:02 pm

Gord wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.

Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D

Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)

We all need super secret code names.

I think mine will be "Kaiju Jew El".
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26786
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:15 pm

Tiddles wrote:Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D
Gord wrote:Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)
That's it!!!!

I'm hiring midget ninjas to crawl into your roof space. Next time you go to sleep, the ninjas will lower my highly trained nose slugs down by string and they will enter your brain and host large nose-slug dance parties.

Take that Canadian!.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:52 am

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.

Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D

Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)

We all need super secret code names.

I think mine will be "Kaiju Jew El".

I think mine is "Griddle Dancer". :scratch:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19800
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:11 am

scrmbldggs wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Gord wrote:
Matthew Ellard wrote:
Austin Harper wrote:Hey, Matthew Ellard, don't you love being anonymous on the internet? I know I sure do.

Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D

Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)

We all need super secret code names.

I think mine will be "Kaiju Jew El".

I think mine is "Griddle Dancer". :scratch:

I would suggest "Toe Tally Fried".
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:53 pm

:lol:
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Wed Jul 19, 2017 3:10 pm

Other than the C14 do you agree that the evidence is confirming a first century burial shroud from the Levant?
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Monster
Has More Than 5K Posts
Posts: 5009
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:57 pm
Location: Tarrytown, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Monster » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:15 pm

salomed wrote:Other than the C14 do you agree that the evidence is confirming a first century burial shroud from the Levant?

Forgive me for not reading whatever evidence you might be talking about.

I'm puzzled about this burial shroud thing. Nikki Nix, in this thread, and Matthew Ellard in the past, have shown that the shroud's image has the wrong shape to be a superimposition of a human's face.

Do you think that the shroud is Jesus's burial shroud? Is that it? And that his face magically got onto the shroud?
Listening twice as much as you speak is a sign of wisdom.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:47 pm

Monster wrote:I'm puzzled about this burial shroud thing. Nikki Nix, in this thread, and Matthew Ellard in the past, have shown that the shroud's image has the wrong shape to be a superimposition of a human's face.


I am far from convinced that they have. You guys seem to give him/her a real stamp of authenticity, which is your call.

If you are interested, search "face shroud 3d", there are many videos and articles and documentaries about this very issue.

Do you think that the shroud is Jesus's burial shroud?


I do not know. I don't really see any evidence that Jesus existed, anywhere. I see evidence he is a fabrication based on other figures and deities.

If this shroud were to be of the time, of the area, and produced by inexplainable super-natural means, then that would be the first convincing evidence to me that Jesus was real. And, lordy-me, I might just become a believer:)

And that his face magically got onto the shroud?


I think it is fascinating and mysterious, irrespective of if it is a medieval forgery or a magical messiah face remnant.

I am passionate about my open mind. Sure, it let's in garbage, it lets out thought-farts, it is spongy and hard to please, but at least it is not closed.

It was once, very closed.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29477
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gord » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:16 pm

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Tiddles wrote:Everyone in the real world knows me by my 1980's nick name. As if I'd be silly enough to say what that name was, here. :D
Gord wrote:Don't worry, Tiddles, your secret is safe with us. 8-)
That's it!!!!

I'm hiring midget ninjas to crawl into your roof space. Next time you go to sleep, the ninjas will lower my highly trained nose slugs down by string and they will enter your brain and host large nose-slug dance parties.

Take that Canadian!.

But I sleep in the roof space. It's summer!
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19816
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:36 pm

salomed wrote:
Monster wrote:I'm puzzled about this burial shroud thing. Nikki Nix, in this thread, and Matthew Ellard in the past, have shown that the shroud's image has the wrong shape to be a superimposition of a human's face.


I am far from convinced that they have. You guys seem to give him/her a real stamp of authenticity, which is your call.

You are letting your dislike of those two posters getting in the way of your apparently overly open mind.


If you are interested, search "face shroud 3d", there are many videos and articles and documentaries about this very issue.

It would seem that there's little to no interest in this issue anymore. IIRC, the matter has been looked at and found wanting. The only question would be why you are warming up such an old canard here?
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:23 pm

Salomed only dislikes Matthew and me because we poke rational holes in his irrational, emotional arguments. I've no idea why the rest of you escape his nyah-nyahs, since you do the same.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26786
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:47 am

salomed wrote:Other than the C14 do you agree that the evidence is confirming a first century burial shroud from the Levant?
There is no evidence it is a first century burial shroud and you failed to list any such evidence.

What makes this easy for me is that the International Skeptics Forum has just completed a very long debate on all the evidence for the shroud.
:D
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/fo ... ight=turin


Return to “UFOs, Cryptozoology, and The Paranormal”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests