The Shroud Of Turin

PSI, Mediums, Ghosts, UFOs, Things That Go Bump In The Night
User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:30 pm

What a fascinating object! I remember vividly eating my breakfast in the late eighties and reading in the newspaper how, at last, The Shroud was a proven hoax: the C14 showed it so. Case closed. But it isn't closed. The dating was flawed as even the daters say. Even as a medieval hoax, we do not know how it was done and we cannot replicate it - many have tried.

Some links for the interested:

Wikipedia has a good alround summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin
Shroud.com is a good site on it. It is worth reading the debunking page: https://www.shroud.com/bar.htm
The C14 dating: http://www.innoval.com/C14/

What do you think?
Last edited by salomed on Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:49 pm

I think, after reading just the Wikipedia article, that the overwhelming majority of people who investigated allowed their conclusions to be tainted by their subjective desires, instead of being based on their observations and analyses.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:I think, after reading just the Wikipedia article, that the overwhelming majority of people who investigated allowed their conclusions to be tainted by their subjective desires, instead of being based on their observations and analyses.


What are you saying MatthewNikki?
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:23 pm

You're confused SalomedBardcode. I'm Nikki. I'm female and live in New England with my daughter and two dogs. Matthew is male. He lives in Australia with his partner, Amanda (IIRC). If you had observation skills, you'd notice that we don't post on all the same topics, that our argument foci differ, and that our writing styles are wildly disparate. For example, I haven't yet called you "a complete idiot," have I?
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:29 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:You're confused SalomedBardcode. I'm Nikki. I'm female and live in New England with my daughter and two dogs. Matthew is male. He lives in Australia with his partner, Amanda (IIRC). If you had observation skills, you'd notice that we don't post on all the same topics, that our argument foci differ, and that our writing styles are wildly disparate. For example, I haven't yet called you "a complete idiot," have I?


I care not, I think you are, still, so what? I am happy to prove I am not Alan Green/Bardcode.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19764
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:31 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:You're confused SalomedBardcode. I'm Nikki. I'm female and live in New England with my daughter and two dogs. Matthew is male. He lives in Australia with his partner, Amanda (IIRC). If you had observation skills, you'd notice that we don't post on all the same topics, that our argument foci differ, and that our writing styles are wildly disparate. For example, I haven't yet called you "a complete idiot," have I?


I care not, I think you are, still, so what? I am happy to prove I am not Alan Green/Bardcode.

So far your deductive skills have been awesomely underwhelming.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:32 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:So far your deductive skills have been awesomely underwhelming.


I am very flawed in very many ways:)
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19764
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:45 pm

salomed wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:So far your deductive skills have been awesomely underwhelming.


I am very flawed in very many ways:)

Short list, give us both ways you aren't flawed.

One can be a lie if necessary to flesh out your response.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 5:48 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
salomed wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:So far your deductive skills have been awesomely underwhelming.


I am very flawed in very many ways:)

Short list, give us both ways you aren't flawed.

One can be a lie if necessary to flesh out your response.


Sure:

1) I trie.
2) I admit my failings.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19764
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:05 pm

Which one is the lie?
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:12 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Which one is the lie?


Actually, and you have no reason to belive me, but I don't lie. I took a vow not to. The last lie I told was in 2008 when I needed to get off a call with a client and I said "Someone is at the door." They were not.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Gawdzilla Sama
Has No Life
Posts: 19764
Joined: Sun Jun 01, 2008 2:11 am
Custom Title: Deadly but evil.

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:18 pm

You're right, I don't.
Chachacha wrote:"Oh, thweet mythtery of wife, at waft I've found you!"

WWII Resources. Primary sources.
The Myths of Pearl Harbor. Demythologizing the attack.
Hyperwar. Hypertext history of the Second World War.
The greatest place to work in the entire United States.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:25 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:You're right, I don't.


Of course you don't. One of the issues with the text interface is it strips off humanity. For a decade or more I have assumed that everyone on forums is a liar, sockpuppet, troll, bot etc... it is the right Skeptical position. I care not what any of you lot think of me and I care not about any of you. As it should be:)

When it comes to real people, that is the exact opposite. I suspect some people here don't get down to well as a real person or with real people.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:10 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:You're confused SalomedBardcode. I'm Nikki. I'm female and live in New England with my daughter and two dogs. Matthew is male. He lives in Australia with his partner, Amanda (IIRC). If you had observation skills, you'd notice that we don't post on all the same topics, that our argument foci differ, and that our writing styles are wildly disparate. For example, I haven't yet called you "a complete idiot," have I?


I care not, I think you are, still, so what? I am happy to prove I am not Alan Green/Bardcode.
Well, that's your problem in a nutshell: You don't care about evidence. You draw conclusions based on nothing at all.

So, lay out your evidence for your "belief" that Matthew and I are the same person. This ought to be good.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:16 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:You're confused SalomedBardcode. I'm Nikki. I'm female and live in New England with my daughter and two dogs. Matthew is male. He lives in Australia with his partner, Amanda (IIRC). If you had observation skills, you'd notice that we don't post on all the same topics, that our argument foci differ, and that our writing styles are wildly disparate. For example, I haven't yet called you "a complete idiot," have I?


I care not, I think you are, still, so what? I am happy to prove I am not Alan Green/Bardcode.
Well, that's your problem in a nutshell: You don't care about evidence. You draw conclusions based on nothing at all.

So, lay out your evidence for your "belief" that Matthew and I are the same person. This ought to be good.


Your writing style, image editing, arrogance, snideness... but who cares?

If you are not the same person, I am wrong. If you are, you will deny it. Either way, you will deny it. There is no proof. And I don't care, MatthewNikki, it is such a trivial thing. What?!!! A person on a forum with too accounts???? Never!

Let's focus on the interesting stuff, not the boringness of sockpuppets.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:24 pm

salomed wrote:For a decade or more I have assumed that everyone on forums is a liar, sockpuppet, troll, bot etc.
I call bull-shit. If that were truly your belief, you wouldn't be here expending this much time and energy attempting to convert "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." to your beliefs.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:33 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
salomed wrote:For a decade or more I have assumed that everyone on forums is a liar, sockpuppet, troll, bot etc.
I call bull-shit. If that were truly your belief, you wouldn't be here expending this much time and energy attempting to convert "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." to your beliefs.


You are wrong. I see this place as a filter. For example, when I found about the Sonnets stuff I came here and posted it and started debating it to see if it was debunked. It hasn't been yet. I have done this with some other things, and they have been debunked to my satisfaction.

I also enjoy the sport of the debate.

If you actually were to go through my posts, and I dont advise this as life is far too short, you would see I dont really try to convert anyone. I mainly ask questions and take the insults, of which I get many. When people start the insulting I know I am onto something:)

WHEN YOU HAVE NO RECOURSE TO AN ARGUMENT, INSULT THE PLAINTIFF.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19745
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:41 pm

salomed wrote:I care not what any of you lot think of me and I care not about any of you. As it should be:)

Then's what's with the attempts to draw members into Skype communications? IIRC, the given reason for that request was you said you had something to prove.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:43 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:
salomed wrote:I care not what any of you lot think of me and I care not about any of you. As it should be:)

Then's what's with the attempts to draw members into Skype communications? IIRC, the given reason for that request was you said you had something to prove.


That is my whole point. When there is a real person there it changes.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:44 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:So, lay out your evidence for your "belief" that Matthew and I are the same person. This ought to be good.
Your writing style, image editing, arrogance, snideness... but who cares?
• My writing style is completely different from Matthew's, not to mention the fact that I use American spellings while he uses British ones.
• Image editing? Matthew has mostly posted unedited images or images edited by others; I've mostly posted images that I have edited using either Preview or Gimp. If you examined the image links, you'd see our images don't link from the same site or account.
• We may both be arrogant and snide when dealing with woo posters such as yourself, but we certainly don't express it the same way. Matthew has a habit of calling people "complete idiot." I tend toward the subtly sarcastic. Plus, he uses this guy a lot: :lol:
• You might also have noticed that our posting overlap is quite small...because I'm currently in UTC-4 (New England with Daylight Savings Time) and he's somewhere between UTC+8 to UTC+10.5.

salomed wrote:If you are not the same person, I am wrong. If you are, you will deny it. Either way, you will deny it. There is no proof. And I don't care, MatthewNikki, it is such a trivial thing. What?!!! A person on a forum with two accounts???? Never!
FIFY. And you are wrong. You have an amazing collection of baseless beliefs. Why are you in a skeptics' forum? You never met a conspiracy theory you didn't automatically like.

salomed wrote:Let's focus on the interesting stuff, not the boringness of sockpuppets.
Let me know when you post something interesting.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19745
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:47 pm

salomed wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:
salomed wrote:I care not what any of you lot think of me and I care not about any of you. As it should be:)

Then's what's with the attempts to draw members into Skype communications? IIRC, the given reason for that request was you said you had something to prove.


That is my whole point. When there is a real person there it changes.

So we are to assume that any communication here is worthless to you? And no doubt about it, something of such seems to bleed through often enough, noticeable in eventual responses by other users to your attitude. That's some food for thought, dear...


You can't play the victim here if you only wish to use this platform to further your agenda.
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:50 pm

scrmbldggs wrote:So we are to assume that any communication here is worthless to you? And no doubt about it, something of such seems to bleed through often enough, noticeable in eventual responses by other users to your attitude. That's some food for thought, dear...


Yes, on a personal level. Now if you could prove to me that the shroud is a hoax or aliens are real/unreal that would be worthwhile.

The endemic nastiness here... why should I invest any of my personal focus in you people, or you in me?
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19745
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:50 pm

For your information, I had edited and added to my last post.
Last edited by scrmbldggs on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:51 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:
salomed wrote:For a decade or more I have assumed that everyone on forums is a liar, sockpuppet, troll, bot etc.
I call bull-shit. If that were truly your belief, you wouldn't be here expending this much time and energy attempting to convert "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." to your beliefs.
You are wrong.
No, I'm not.

salomed wrote:I see this place as a filter. For example, when I found about the Sonnets stuff I came here and posted it and started debating it to see if it was debunked. It hasn't been yet. I have done this with some other things, and they have been debunked to my satisfaction.
Which proves my point. If you truly believed that "everyone on forums is a liar, sock puppet, troll, bot, etc.," you wouldn't bother. It would gain you nothing to hear the opinions of liars.

salomed wrote:If you actually were to go through my posts, and I dont advise this as life is far too short, you would see I dont really try to convert anyone. I mainly ask questions and take the insults, of which I get many. When people start the insulting I know I am onto something:)
People? But you don't believe that anyone here is a real person, remember? So, you are not "onto something" when only "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." have insulted you.

You need a course in logic. Everything you just said contradicts your claimed belief.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:52 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:You have an amazing collection of baseless beliefs. Why are you in a skeptics' forum?


Because I am a genuine skeptic, not a cynic or a gatekeeper.And yes, my beliefs are very baseless. I doubt my doubts. I know I know very little.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:57 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:People? But you don't believe that anyone here is a real person, remember?


I am sure there are real people here. But I have no way to know who is what. And even those real people have the luxury of their anonymity to hide behind. So why would any of us invest personal energy? I am all about the facts and questions, not the people here.


So, you are not "onto something" when only "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." have insulted you.


I think i am. When Ellard gets nasty, I know he is on the ropes, for example.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:41 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:You have an amazing collection of baseless beliefs. Why are you in a skeptics' forum?
Because I am a genuine skeptic, not a cynic or a gatekeeper.And yes, my beliefs are very baseless. I doubt my doubts. I know I know very little.
I disagree that you're a skeptic. You lack incredulity when you encounter pseudo-scientific phenomena. You express a rather gullible belief that coincidence has meaning, simultaneously misunderstanding probability. And you have a disturbing tendency to discard factual evidence that doesn't fit your predetermined conclusions, confirmation biases, and preexisting beliefs.

A skeptic is one who prefers beliefs and conclusions that are reliable and valid to ones that are comforting or convenient, and therefore rigorously and openly applies the methods of science and reason to all empirical claims, especially their own. A skeptic provisionally proportions acceptance of any claim to valid logic and a fair and thorough assessment of available evidence, and studies the pitfalls of human reason and the mechanisms of deception so as to avoid being deceived by others or themselves. Skepticism values method over any particular conclusion.—Steven Novella, President of the New England Skeptical Society
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:43 pm

salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:So, you are not "onto something" when only "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." have insulted you.
I think i am. When Ellard gets nasty, I know he is on the ropes, for example.
No, he's not; he just has a low tolerance for bull-shit...and for having to repeat himself when someone is ignoring the valid points he makes. Frankly, I can empathize with that; you've ignored multiple valid points I've made, and it's frustrating as hell.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:50 pm

Nikki Nyx wrote:
salomed wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:So, you are not "onto something" when only "liars, sock puppets, trolls, bots, etc." have insulted you.
I think i am. When Ellard gets nasty, I know he is on the ropes, for example.
No, he's not; he just has a low tolerance for bull-shit...and for having to repeat himself when someone is ignoring the valid points he makes. Frankly, I can empathize with that; you've ignored multiple valid points I've made, and it's frustrating as hell.


You have ignored my initial request to do the math on the cover. But I haven't let it frustrate me.

Please stop talking to me. The internet should be FUN.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
OlegTheBatty
True Skeptic
Posts: 10510
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 2:35 pm
Custom Title: Uppity Atheist

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby OlegTheBatty » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:52 pm

salomed wrote:
What do you think?


I think I will avoid making blanket statements about the Shroud of Turin.
. . . with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he has an idea of his own because he has commented on the idea of another . . . - Alexandre Dumas 'The Count of Monte Cristo"

There is no statement so absurd that it has not been uttered by some philosopher. - Cicero

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8214
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:06 pm

Salomed, you are surely the rudest and most ignorant person I've come across for a long time. I am sick to death of your insistence that no one on this forum but you has done any work at all on your claims. You KNOW this is not true and, consequently, you are a blatant liar. Now you are descending to the depths of hypocrisy by asking people not to talk to you. Where the hell do you think you are - a nunnery? Since the start of your Shakespeare fiasco, you have claimed that no one has checked what you have checked or done the work that you have done. Well I have a counter claim - you haven't done a stroke of work on the subject, instead being happy to follow the script written by someone who makes a living from the gullibility of others.
You are a fraud. You are dishonest, You are a sucker. You are a hypocrite. Were I you, I'd be too embarrassed ever to show my face here again.
Please stop talking to me. Please stop talking to ANYONE. Please take your drivel somewhere more suited to your nature.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26757
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:01 am

Nikki Nyx wrote:For example, I haven't yet called you (Salomed) "a complete idiot," have I?
You can now call Salomed a complete idiot. We post from two opposite time zones, crossing each other over a 24 hour period. Salomed didn't pick up on that. My cat has better observational skills.

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26757
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:05 am

scrmbldggs wrote:Then's what's with the attempts to draw members into Skype communications? IIRC, the given reason for that request was you said you had something to prove.


Did he contact you too? That's odd. I'm getting complaints for members, saying Salomed has sent them private messages demanding a Skype call, so he can claim his innocence to the forgeries he made in the Sonnets thread. :D

Matthew Ellard
Real Skeptic
Posts: 26757
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:31 am

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Matthew Ellard » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:10 am

salomed wrote:When Ellard gets nasty, I know he is on the ropes, for example.

Oddly, I thought the stronger evidence was for this : :lol:

"When Salomed starts forging evidence again, I know he is on the ropes."

Salomed gets caught forging Evidence

viewtopic.php?f=80&p=590737#p590563

User avatar
scrmbldggs
Has No Life
Posts: 19745
Joined: Sun May 20, 2012 7:55 am
Custom Title: something
Location: sees Maria Frigoris from its house!

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby scrmbldggs » Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:16 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
scrmbldggs wrote:Then's what's with the attempts to draw members into Skype communications? IIRC, the given reason for that request was you said you had something to prove.


Did he contact you too? That's odd. I'm getting complaints for members, saying Salomed has sent them private messages demanding a Skype call, so he can claim his innocence to the forgeries he made in the Sonnets thread. :D

Nah, but the offer was made repeatedly on the board recently, and if you search 'Skype' alone in the user's posts, you get thirteen hits of salomed wanting to be an exhibitionist. :-P
.

Lard, save me from your followers.

User avatar
Nikki Nyx
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2064
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:40 am
Custom Title: cognitively consonant
Location: playing croquet in Wonderland

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Nikki Nyx » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:18 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Nikki Nyx wrote:For example, I haven't yet called you (Salomed) "a complete idiot," have I?
You can now call Salomed a complete idiot. We post from two opposite time zones, crossing each other over a 24 hour period. Salomed didn't pick up on that. My cat has better observational skills.
Right? Salomed doesn't like evidence that counters his/her beliefs, though.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

User avatar
Gord
Real Skeptic
Posts: 29416
Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:44 am
Custom Title: Silent Ork
Location: Transcona

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Gord » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:04 am

Poodle wrote:Salomed, you are surely the rudest and most ignorant person I've come across for a long time.

That's disgusting.
"Knowledge grows through infinite timelessness" -- the random fictional Deepak Chopra quote site
"You are also taking my words out of context." -- Justin
"Nullius in verba" -- The Royal Society ["take nobody's word for it"]
#ANDAMOVIE

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8214
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:37 am

Gord wrote:
Poodle wrote:Salomed, you are surely the rudest and most ignorant person I've come across for a long time.

That's disgusting.

:lol:
Normally I see things like that before I press send. My only excuse is the heat that was building up under my collar.

User avatar
salomed
Frequent Poster
Posts: 1245
Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2011 4:18 pm
Custom Title: Cartesian Skeptic

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby salomed » Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:01 am

Poodle wrote:Please stop talking to me. Please stop talking to ANYONE. Please take your drivel somewhere more suited to your nature.


You are the only person I have private messaged here in months, perhaps years. And that was because you gave me your word in public you would not interact with me, which you started doing. I Private Messaged you just to ask you to keep to your word. All I said was:

You said you would not talk to me, please stick to your, Thank you:)


That was it.

You then got nasty and insulting.
Comment savez-vous que vous ne parlez pas bollox?
Sur internet: http://bit.ly/14A0n9H

User avatar
Poodle
Has More Than 8K Posts
Posts: 8214
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:12 pm
Custom Title: Regular sleeper
Location: NE corner of my living room

Re: The Shroud Of Turin

Postby Poodle » Sat Jul 15, 2017 9:22 am

I got insulting? What do you think you're doing every time you completely ignore everything anyone says to you? You have your figurative fingers in your ears and carry on regardless. Obvious errors (with evidence) have been pointed out to you countless times yet you have insulted every poster on the subject by coming up with the equivalent of "Can't hear you, nuh nuh nuh" as though that was a stunning put-down. You don't read responses properly, you hate it when anyone suggests that you have fallen hook, line and sinker for a Von Danikenism, even though you have. And you have the sheer nerve, after openly demanding that several people on here should stop talking to you, to pretend to be upset because I simply used your mewlings against you.
Here's what you posted to Nikki above ..." Please stop talking to me". It's there - you can scroll back and see it. If you're prepared to issue such crybaby demands, don't be too surprised when someone paraphrases your breath-holding, foot-stamping efforts. This is an internet forum and you are posting on it. Most people doing that would expect responses. You got them in spades. Your problem is that you take no notice of what's being said in those responses.
My post to you was in direct response to your abject rudeness in demanding that anyone questioning your fairy stories should not speak to you any longer. I certainly said (openly and generally, on the forum, not by giving you my word) I wasn't going to comment any more, but you now construe that as some kind of contract. I changed my mind - it is not for you to demand that I change it back. To expect such things after your prolonged demonstration of intransigence makes you "the rudest and most ignorant person I've come across for a long time" - exactly what I said in the previous post.
Now, it would be very nice if, instead of crying into your milk, you could see your way clear to responding in a mature and sensible manner to reasonable comments and questions about your ideas (bearing in mind the nature of the forum on which you are posting) rather than simply repeating the material which elicited those comments in the first place. If you did that, I would be so pleasantly surprised that I would immediately revert to the very nice, friendly, cool character for which I am famous throughout the universe.
Life would be so much more pleasant.


Return to “UFOs, Cryptozoology, and The Paranormal”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests