What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

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What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Kamil » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:52 pm

This is not at all in a religious sense that I am asking. Rather, do you believe that this phenomenon is possible, and that it could prove that mind and brain work separately? I'm not talking about Near Death Experiences where the brain is acting up and loses sense of where it is (hence why some theorize that we have OBEs during NDEs). I'm talking about the kind of astral projection where people claim they went into someone's house and "verified" exactly what they were doing. There is one man who used to do this that comes to mind: Robert Monroe. In one case, he claims he went to a friend's area, and saw his friend and his friend's wife going on a walk. Later, he confirmed that they were walking at that time, and could even confirm what his wife and himself were wearing. There had been other tests done by Charles Tart which proved to be less successful. However, I hear of so many people here in Poland who believe in astral projection. I heard one caller on the Atheist Experience once who claimed that when he was younger, he used to get fevers, which resulted in Out of Body experiences. He said he trained himself to have these OBEs on demand. Then, he would throw random cards into the living room and test if he could read cards he had never looked at whilst in this state. His conclusion was that he could not, and that ever experiment he ever did completely failed.

There you have it, people who claim to be able to do it, and people who claim that it cannot be used reliably. One site brought up an interesting perspective, saying that if this were a real thing, armies could spy on one another using simple astral projection.

Yet, we have these institutes set up such as the Monroe Institute which is supposed to teach people to astral project and still has business after many years. Some of these stories sound so compelling when people come back with specific details. Some of these people though, fail when scientific tests are put into place. What do you guys think, about Astral Projection in general, and perhaps Robert Monroe?

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:02 am

Image
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:08 am

The thing about astral projection is that it is easily tested. It has been tested, and it failed.

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:10 am

it's real...my uncle, a doctor, has traveled out of body for years and met our dead relatives and the dead Monroe......yes , Monroe's books are great......Whitley Strieber also visited and woke someone when out of body,,,she called the next day and told him that she remembered it....anyone can learn to do it...
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:10 am

nonsense Lance
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:24 am

See, Kamil? Don't listen to this troll. First it will load you up with garbage, then agree with the rational minds.

It's a bit :nuts:
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Kamil » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:29 am

Yeah gorgeous is annoying. She makes me look smart

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:32 am

grow up little boys
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:32 am

gorgeous wrote:nonsense Lance
Hey Gorgeous!!!!!!

Tel Kamil about your continuous claim, that alien shape-shifting reptiles control the Earth. Do the alien shape-shifting reptiles have paranormal NDEs? Do they only see other alien shape-shifting reptiles?
:lol:
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:41 am

Kamil wrote:Rather, do you believe that this phenomenon is possible


Exactly define Astral Travelling for us.
Do you claim they can float through walls ( No physical interaction with the environment) Do you claim they can see things by focusing light with their eyes ( requires physical interaction with the environment)

If you can't make up you mind what Astral travelling is, then you can't go looking for it, can you?
:lol:

Kamil wrote:Robert Monroe?
The Monroe institute is a holiday camp for separating money from rich old hippies, where for $2,600 a night you can sleep with crystals next to your bed.
https://www.monroeinstitute.org/Effortless%20Meditation

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:43 am

gorgeous wrote:grow up little boys

What is it with you and your projecting. Why don't you roll your pimply fat keister out of your mom's basement and see a therapist and do something worthwhile with your life? You're still very young, you could even go back to school and complete that education you abandoned...
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:43 am

This is a skeptic forum. One of the qualities of a good skeptic is a respect for science. That means a respect for and a demand for, good scientific testing. Astral projection has been tested scientifically and failed. We need go no further.

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Kamil » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:44 am

Matthew Ellard wrote:
Kamil wrote:Rather, do you believe that this phenomenon is possible


Exactly define Astral Travelling for us.
Do you claim they can float through walls ( No physical interaction with the environment) Do you claim they can see things by focusing light with their eyes ( requires physical interaction with the environment)

If you can't make up you mind what Astral travelling is, then you can't go looking for it, can you?
:lol:

Kamil wrote:Robert Monroe?
The Monroe institute is a holiday camp for separating money from rich old hippies, where for $2,600 a night you can sleep with crystals next to your bed.
https://www.monroeinstitute.org/Effortless%20Meditation



Matthew, do you think if those were real it would have been proven by now?

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:47 am

nonsense...people travel out of body every day...it's real
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:49 am

Kamil wrote: Matthew, do you think if those were real it would have been proven by now?

1) It is not real
2) You can't even define what Astral travelling is.

Our forum is a science forum that requires application of the scientific method. The scientific method requires that you set out a unambiguous hypothesis and then test that hypothesis to either prove it or falsify it.

No one in the history of mankind has ever set out a scientific hypothesis for paranormal astral travelling other than saying it is a normal psychological illusion caused by normal psychology.

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:50 am

Matthew Ellard wrote: The Monroe institute is a holiday camp for separating money from rich old hippies, where for $2,600 a night you can sleep with crystals next to your bed.
I can do that for free; I have a lovely collection of geodes. :lol:
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:51 am

gorgeous wrote:nonsense...people travel out of body every day...it's real
People claim Jesus is real too.

It just shows that people with really low IQs like yourself, are still allowed to mix with normal people, without wearing child restraining straps.
:lol:

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:52 am

you forgot to mention peer reviewed journals..still waiting for the article proving all of you exist...
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:52 am

Nikki Nyx wrote: I have a lovely collection of geodes. :lol:
Show off! :D

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:54 am

gorgeous wrote:.still waiting for the article proving all of you exist...
My passport does that. Did you forget again? :lol:

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:00 am

fake
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:05 am

Kamil wrote:This is not at all in a religious sense that I am asking. Rather, do you believe that this phenomenon is possible, and that it could prove that mind and brain work separately? I'm not talking about Near Death Experiences where the brain is acting up and loses sense of where it is (hence why some theorize that we have OBEs during NDEs). I'm talking about the kind of astral projection where people claim they went into someone's house and "verified" exactly what they were doing. There is one man who used to do this that comes to mind: Robert Monroe. In one case, he claims he went to a friend's area, and saw his friend and his friend's wife going on a walk. Later, he confirmed that they were walking at that time, and could even confirm what his wife and himself were wearing. There had been other tests done by Charles Tart which proved to be less successful. However, I hear of so many people here in Poland who believe in astral projection. I heard one caller on the Atheist Experience once who claimed that when he was younger, he used to get fevers, which resulted in Out of Body experiences. He said he trained himself to have these OBEs on demand. Then, he would throw random cards into the living room and test if he could read cards he had never looked at whilst in this state. His conclusion was that he could not, and that ever experiment he ever did completely failed.

There you have it, people who claim to be able to do it, and people who claim that it cannot be used reliably. One site brought up an interesting perspective, saying that if this were a real thing, armies could spy on one another using simple astral projection.

Yet, we have these institutes set up such as the Monroe Institute which is supposed to teach people to astral project and still has business after many years. Some of these stories sound so compelling when people come back with specific details. Some of these people though, fail when scientific tests are put into place. What do you guys think, about Astral Projection in general, and perhaps Robert Monroe?

I don't see any evidence, only claims, beliefs, and stories. Show me some evidence.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:06 am

gorgeous wrote:fake
How on Earth can I have a fake Australian passport, if I'm Australian? Did the alien shape-shifting reptiles tell you that, or was it the secret world Illuminati?

Are you sure, you're not going senile?
:D

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:08 am

what evidence do you want?
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:11 am

Credible evidence. Not the nonsense you deem evidence.
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:14 am

Kamil, maybe you'd take a moment and read through this. It's about testimonials and anecdotes. You might already know that site, but it's still worth your while to cruise around there for an abundance of information.
.

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Nikki Nyx » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:17 am

gorgeous wrote:what evidence do you want?

I wasn't addressing you, Dead Link Provider.
What are the facts? Again and again and again-what are the facts? Shun wishful thinking, ignore divine revelation, forget what “the stars foretell,” avoid opinion, care not what the neighbors think, never mind the unguessable “verdict of history”--what are the facts, and to how many decimal places? You pilot always into an unknown future; facts are your single clue. Get the facts!
—Lazarus Long, from Time Enough for Love, by Robert A. Heinlein

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:17 am

be specific...
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:23 am

Image
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:25 am

same as God evidence...no evidence would convince you...typical...
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:28 am

gorgeous wrote:same as God evidence...no evidence would convince you...typical...
Gorgeous? Are you forgetting? You said the alien shape-shifting reptiles control Earth.

If there was a "God" why can't he stop them? Please explain why God is so weak compared to reptiles?
:lol:

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:29 am

still can't come up with evidence needed.......
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Matthew Ellard » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:36 am

gorgeous wrote:still can't come up with evidence needed.......
OK. So the alien shape shifting reptiles haven't told you yet?

Here's a hint. Get a bucket of water. Stick your head in it. Hold your head under water for twenty minutes. You will then hear the alien shape shifter reptiles explain the evidence to you.
:D
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:50 am

gorgeous wrote:same as God evidence...no evidence would convince you...typical...

You haven't offered any evidence. Not now, not ever.



But if you wanna start, how about the promised evidence about the claimed (by you) faked shooting deaths of Alison Parker and Adam Ward.
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:53 am

Evidence is easy. If a person is able to astral project, then he or she can discover stuff. So the test is simple. Take someone who claims to be able to do it, and get them to lie down to let their astral body go. Place a sign somewhere out of sight, and tell the would be astral traveller to go to it in his or her astral body, read the sign , and come back to tell us what it says, while their real body stays put. This test has been run numerous times, and the result is always fail.

There was a famous case in 1978 where a guy named Ingo Swann claimed to astral travel to Jupiter. He wrote down his 'findings ' and they were checked later against what the first Jupiter probe discovered. His hit rate was 37%, which is roughly what a science fiction writer making guesses would get.
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby scrmbldggs » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:56 am

Lance, you know it doesn't work on command. Especially not when asked by a skeptic... :roll:
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Lance Kennedy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:59 am

Ah, scrambled one, delusion is eternal.

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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Gord » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:41 am

Astral projection is a delightful fantasy that has provided me with many hours of joy while reading novels and playing games. It's not a real thing, though. It's like magic and dragons.
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:39 am

Kamil wrote:Matthew, do you think if those were real it would have been proven by now?

When people make {!#%@} up it's often hard to provide solid evidence for that claim. And by "often hard" I mean "{!#%@} NEVER".
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Re: What do you guys think of the concept of Astral Projection?

Postby gorgeous » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:09 pm

you seem obsessed with parker...because she was a bleached blond? tells you there not to trust her...
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